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George Masaon Admission Requirements
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:57 pm
by Dayons_Den
Read in the paper today that GMU is going to start admitting solely based on grade point average- meaning if a student has a 3.5 gpa and is in the top 20% of their class they would not need to take SAT or ACT. . . .
Wonder what the ramifications on athletics would be. The NCAA still requires ACT/SAT scores, right?
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:36 pm
by transfer2BGSU
Read further down and you will see that student-athletes will still need to submit ACT/SAT scores.
From the article I read, it appears that if you have the GPA and do not submit ACT/SAT scores, they are requiring two letters of recommendation.
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:00 pm
by Dayons_Den
I don't know if I like that, and am glad there is the two letters required. As someone "in the biz", transfer, do you see this as a potential trend among 4 year institutions?
I just remember too many kids that had great GPAs because of extra credit and no extra curriculars.
This could be because I was a kid who didn't apply himself in school, was busy in tons of extracuriculars, had a decent, but not great GPA and did well on the ACT.
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:35 pm
by ZiggyZoomba
Dayons_Den wrote:I was a kid who didn't apply himself in school, was busy in tons of extracuriculars, had a decent, but not great GPA and did well on the ACT.
Sounds just like me...
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:25 pm
by transfer2BGSU
Dayons_Den wrote:I just remember too many kids that had great GPAs because of extra credit and no extra curriculars.
Next time you're in town we can go over to Jed's or someplace and I can tell you my rant against high school GPA's.
Personally I think the ACT/SAT have become necessary to get a real gauge on the student. Too many GPA's over 4.000 but lacking as far as strength of senior year schedule. Schools weight GPA's differently - school A adds an extrra 2 points to an AP class, where school B only adds 1, while school C adds .1 - there is no standard. The ACT/SAT scores are the only thing these students have in common.
Letters or recommendation are a joke anymore. I have one letter in my possession where the teacher told us that the student was failing his class. That is the only letter I have ever seen that told us something we needed to know. I see letters for students with low GPA's (the lower the GPA, the more letters of recommendation they send) and the letter tells us how great an asset the student would be. Of course, most letters talk about their extracurricular activities and make no mention to the failing grades in English, Math, Science, Social Studies, and Foreign Language. I especially love the letters from alums and legislators.
Personally, I like what we do at BGSU. A combination of high school GPA, ACT/SAT test scores, courses completed the first three years of high school, strength of senior year schedule, and looking at the attendance record. That provides me everything I need to know about the student in addition to the application.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:42 am
by Jacobs4Heisman
What takes on the most weight in general though transfer?
I was valedictorian (of a small class) and had a very high SAT score, but my Senior year schedule was a joke (5 study halls) and my attendance was absolutely terrible. But, I did have a lot of extracirriculars, including two sports and Student council prez.
Did the fact that my Dad is an alum help me in getting my scholarship? Is there a point where certain aspects are so strong that weakness in others gets overlooked?
If I had known that BG looked at attendance and Senior year schedule, I'd have been terrified to apply. Now I'm very curious as to the process. Is the scholarship process completely seperate from admissions, or do the two go hand in hand? Do the same people make both decisions?
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:01 am
by transfer2BGSU
Attendance is something that is used for borderline scenarios.
Case 1 - student is on the borderline for admission to the university. We look for a reason to admit a student (because you can't come to the univeristy if you haven't been admitted). You would be shocked by the number of days students miss school. I have a transcript that I use for presentations at high schools that shows she missed 217 days over four years (she also had a 1.181 GPA over those four years) and a second one that shows a student missing 97 days over three years (because he had to repeat his sophomore year and the computer system could not reflect two years of the same grade). If a student is not going to attend school when it's free, then why ask them to pay $9,135 when they can't make it to class?
Case 2 - student does not qualify for an academic scholarship (3.500 GPA and 23 ACT/1050 SAT Critical Reasoning and Math). Student appeals to be considered for the scholarship because they have the GPA (maybe a 3.65) but not the ACT score (21). You look at the classes completed the first three years, the senior year grades and strength of schedule. If the student is slacking off the senior year, then they haven't given you a reason to award them the scholarship. The senior year of high school is no different that the freshman, sophomore, and junior years EXCEPT as seniors they get to park closeer to the high school, the other three classes have to remain standing upon entering assemblies until all of the seniors are in and seated, AND seniors get to take the most rigorous classes offered by the high school. If you want to take English 4 and loaf, then don't ask us to make an exception to the policy because you do not warrant an exception to the policy.
There will be a number of students where we do not need to look at the nitty-gritty of the application because they will have the GPA and test scores and meet our initial requirements. But if the application requires additional scrutiny, THEN strength of schedule and attendance may have an impact upon the application. We're looking for a reason to admit the student (remember they can't take classes if they're not admitted).
You may ask, but what if they have a valid reason for a large number of absences (and what constitutes an excessive amount of absence)?
What constitutes an excessive amount of absences? Any more than 6 absences in any one school year (same with tardies).
What if they have a valid reason for a large number of absences? My post also referred to the application itself. Question #29 on the application for admission clearly states If you would like the Admissions Committee to consider any additional information, please provide that information on a separate piece of paper. They're given the opportunity to provide us with the information and documentation (if they actually read the application).
We have a number of individuals that will review the applications and make recommendations to the Director as to the fate of the students. Again, we look for reasons to admit, but sometimes students do not give us anything to work with. When the student submits an essay (which we do not require and do not list as optional) with a number of misspelled words - and wants you to reconsider their application. Or the student that asked us to reconsider his application because his sophomore and junior years he was assigned to the "most difficult and demanding English teachers" and "they taught the class as an Honors English class even though only regular credit was received" what do you do?
By the way, this last student also wrote "I am a hardworking student and feel that I would do very well at the University of Dayton." Enough said.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:26 am
by 1987alum
transfer2BGSU wrote:Letters or recommendation are a joke anymore. ... I especially love the letters from alums and legislators.
So I shouldn't waste my time on anymore of these?
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:39 am
by transfer2BGSU
It depends upon the school.
For BGSU, letters of recommendations are not required as we admit a large number of applicants to the university (although we are considered a selective institution).
Now Harvard admits about one of every ten applicants. They rely heavily on the letters of recommendation as well as the essays. James Madison University will have 11,000 applications for it's 3,300 frehmen slots. They will wait-list about 500 students and probably not have to go to the list.
Honestly, for admission to an Ohio public university (and 99% of the Ohio private colleges and universities), a letter of recommendation is not necessary.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:54 pm
by Jacobs4Heisman
Thanks, Transfer. I've always been curious about the admissions process.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:20 pm
by transfer2BGSU
Well, when all else fails, I still have my Magic 8 ball right here on the desk. It never fails me!!!! Actually, I used to use that when I was the college registrar in North Carolina and students would ask me if they were going to graduate.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:51 pm
by Jacobs4Heisman
transfer2BGSU wrote:Well, when all else fails, I still have my Magic 8 ball right here on the desk. It never fails me!!!! Actually, I used to use that when I was the college registrar in North Carolina and students would ask me if they were going to graduate.
Not f***ing likely.
