Do we get another basketball next season?

Germainfitch1 · Post by **Germainfitch1** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:43 pm

Metz wrote:
Germainfitch1 wrote:Ok genius. But wouldnt a guy with bone bruises on his feet who can barely practice now maybe want/need to take 6 months off?
You'd think so, but by the way he plays, you never know. He obviously plays through pain because he loves to play the game. You really think he'll stop for 6 months because of pain?

Germainfitch1 wrote:You are so in tune with the basketball program.
Once again you have to make a rude comment directed at me for no reason. Great job!

If he could potentially play another college basketball season by sitting out a summer and a spring wouldnt it make sense for him to do so.

PhalconFan · Post by **PhalconFan** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:47 pm

Moten & Clements…Clements & Moten. That’s all I hear from some of you posters.
“Great DI players: “DD doesn’t put them in” “Maybe looking for greener pastures”
Guys look at the stats

Combined: 25 for 91 FG (27%) 9 for 45 3P (20%) and an astounding 19 for 37 FT (55%)

If they want to leave…God Bless and good luck. Why they would not leave? Who is going to pick them up except a D1 team that’s doing worse than we are!
I am all for BG and truly want the team to do well. But please don’t complain about Moten and Clements playing time. They are not that good.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:51 pm

PhalconFan wrote:Moten & Clements…Clements & Moten. That’s all I hear from some of you posters.
“Great DI players: “DD doesn’t put them in” “Maybe looking for greener pastures”
Guys look at the stats

Combined: 25 for 91 FG (27%) 9 for 45 3P (20%) and an astounding 19 for 37 FT (55%)

If they want to leave…God Bless and good luck. Why they would not leave? Who is going to pick them up except a D1 team that’s doing worse than we are!
I am all for BG and truly want the team to do well. But please don’t complain about Moten and Clements playing time. They are not that good.

I'll take Moten and Clements right now over Floyd and Moon right now without a moment's hesitation. Anybody who has seen all 4 play and wouldn't, well, I would just disagree very strongly.

Moten and Clements have not been given a chance to succeed. Writing them off right now is very shortsighted.

PhalconFan · Post by **PhalconFan** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:15 pm

I have seen them all play. First you are talking about two guards vs two forwards. Moten and Clements would "replace" Samarco, Solor and possible Wright. That's not going to happen. They also have 12 assist to 25 TO. Maybe I'm wrong. But with those numbers they would sit. As far as giving them a chance they have aveaged almost 10 min. per game they were in which is a pretty good "chance" to show what they can do. The stats show what they can do. Both have played almost 230 min less than Moon but both have taken more shots. I am not writing them off I just saying they have not shown anything good this year.

BEAT KENT.....AGAIN!!!

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:29 pm

Jacobs4Heisman wrote:
PhalconFan wrote:Moten & Clements…Clements & Moten. That’s all I hear from some of you posters.
“Great DI players: “DD doesn’t put them in” “Maybe looking for greener pastures”
Guys look at the stats

Combined: 25 for 91 FG (27%) 9 for 45 3P (20%) and an astounding 19 for 37 FT (55%)

If they want to leave…God Bless and good luck. Why they would not leave? Who is going to pick them up except a D1 team that’s doing worse than we are!
I am all for BG and truly want the team to do well. But please don’t complain about Moten and Clements playing time. They are not that good.
I'll take Moten and Clements right now over Floyd and Moon right now without a moment's hesitation. Anybody who has seen all 4 play and wouldn't, well, I would just disagree very strongly.

Moten and Clements have not been given a chance to succeed. Writing them off right now is very shortsighted.

What have you seen them do? I can't imagine. You're judging potential, not anything anyone has seen. I'm not writing them off, but I don't understand what makes people so sure they're going to be top flight D1 players. Maybe they are, but its not anything they've shown.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:31 pm

I didn't say they were top flight D1 players. I simply responded to the assertion that they aren't any good, with the fact that I would take them on the floor over Floyd and Moon. Let's stick to arguing points that have actually been made.

BleedOrange · Post by **BleedOrange** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:33 pm

orangeandbrown wrote:
Jacobs4Heisman wrote:
PhalconFan wrote:Moten & Clements…Clements & Moten. That’s all I hear from some of you posters.
“Great DI players: “DD doesn’t put them in” “Maybe looking for greener pastures”
Guys look at the stats

Combined: 25 for 91 FG (27%) 9 for 45 3P (20%) and an astounding 19 for 37 FT (55%)

If they want to leave…God Bless and good luck. Why they would not leave? Who is going to pick them up except a D1 team that’s doing worse than we are!
I am all for BG and truly want the team to do well. But please don’t complain about Moten and Clements playing time. They are not that good.
I'll take Moten and Clements right now over Floyd and Moon right now without a moment's hesitation. Anybody who has seen all 4 play and wouldn't, well, I would just disagree very strongly.

Moten and Clements have not been given a chance to succeed. Writing them off right now is very shortsighted.
What have you seen them do? I can't imagine. You're judging potential, not anything anyone has seen. I'm not writing them off, but I don't understand what makes people so sure they're going to be top flight D1 players. Maybe they are, but its not anything they've shown.

Instead of making these little arguments, I'd like to invite you to instead get your head out of the sand and LOOK at the actual situation. Clements and Moten are clearly more talented than Moon and Floyd. If you've seen them take the floor, which I actually have on several occasions, then it should be obvious. Dakich, true to the pattern that drives out freshmen year after year, has opted to invest heavy minutes in players that know the program better over younger players that are more athletic. Whether or not they are "great D1 talents" or "top flight D1 players" or have a "tremendous upside" or will be just "pretty good",...well, fine, we don't know THAT to an exactitude. And please, please, don't attempt to make some myopic argument from their stat line, as if that smattering of data is a meaningful reflection of these freshmens' abilities (STAT 201 in the Business School gets into why that sort of argument is silly.)

PhalconFan · Post by **PhalconFan** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:25 pm

How do you determine “athletic ability”? You must look if a guy can run and jump he is athletic and can play basketball. I look at how many times he shoots and makes the shot.
Athletic prowess aside I also look at if I put him in a double overtime game is he smart enough not to intentionally foul 50+ feet from the hoop.
ALL sports look at stats to see how good a player is or is not.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:57 pm

I Lefeld is basically running on bones, I think he could rest from now until doomsday and it won't help. The situation could be made all the more difficult by injuried that could easil occur because he's stressing other parts of his lower body by trying to run with a modified style.

So far as Clements and Moten go, there's two sides to the question. You can wonder why Dan isn't playing them more or you can wonder why they haven't done what they need to to get some minutes.

I'm not close to the team, but I have to assume that everyone knows what's expected of them...that's grade school level coaching.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:21 pm

Jacobs4Heisman wrote:I didn't say they were top flight D1 players. I simply responded to the assertion that they aren't any good, with the fact that I would take them on the floor over Floyd and Moon. Let's stick to arguing points that have actually been made.

And I asked what makes you so sure of that. And no one answers that question.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:25 pm

BleedOrange wrote:
orangeandbrown wrote:
Jacobs4Heisman wrote:
PhalconFan wrote:Moten & Clements…Clements & Moten. That’s all I hear from some of you posters.
“Great DI players: “DD doesn’t put them in” “Maybe looking for greener pastures”
Guys look at the stats

Combined: 25 for 91 FG (27%) 9 for 45 3P (20%) and an astounding 19 for 37 FT (55%)

If they want to leave…God Bless and good luck. Why they would not leave? Who is going to pick them up except a D1 team that’s doing worse than we are!
I am all for BG and truly want the team to do well. But please don’t complain about Moten and Clements playing time. They are not that good.
I'll take Moten and Clements right now over Floyd and Moon right now without a moment's hesitation. Anybody who has seen all 4 play and wouldn't, well, I would just disagree very strongly.

Moten and Clements have not been given a chance to succeed. Writing them off right now is very shortsighted.
What have you seen them do? I can't imagine. You're judging potential, not anything anyone has seen. I'm not writing them off, but I don't understand what makes people so sure they're going to be top flight D1 players. Maybe they are, but its not anything they've shown.
Instead of making these little arguments, I'd like to invite you to instead get your head out of the sand and LOOK at the actual situation. Clements and Moten are clearly more talented than Moon and Floyd. If you've seen them take the floor, which I actually have on several occasions, then it should be obvious. Dakich, true to the pattern that drives out freshmen year after year, has opted to invest heavy minutes in players that know the program better over younger players that are more athletic. Whether or not they are "great D1 talents" or "top flight D1 players" or have a "tremendous upside" or will be just "pretty good",...well, fine, we don't know THAT to an exactitude. And please, please, don't attempt to make some myopic argument from their stat line, as if that smattering of data is a meaningful reflection of these freshmens' abilities (STAT 201 in the Business School gets into why that sort of argument is silly.)

I'm at the games. Its not obvious to me what either brings, especially Clements. Moten got minutes tonight, still don't see it. Finally, I didn't actually quote anyone's stats. But, if the stats were good, you'd accept those, right?

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:40 pm

orangeandbrown wrote:
Jacobs4Heisman wrote:I didn't say they were top flight D1 players. I simply responded to the assertion that they aren't any good, with the fact that I would take them on the floor over Floyd and Moon. Let's stick to arguing points that have actually been made.
And I asked what makes you so sure of that. And no one answers that question.

The reasoning is pretty simple. Moon & Floyd have both been on the team for almost 2 full seasons now (3 for Floyd if you count the sit year), and neither of them has gotten any better. Both had serious flaws in their game when they first got here, and neither have improved one ounce.

Right now neither Clements nor Moten has looked that good in their limited playing time. Still I'd like to see the unknown quantities get some PT over the known quantities in this case. Still I don't think we'd be very good either way.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:48 pm

hammb wrote:
orangeandbrown wrote:
Jacobs4Heisman wrote:I didn't say they were top flight D1 players. I simply responded to the assertion that they aren't any good, with the fact that I would take them on the floor over Floyd and Moon. Let's stick to arguing points that have actually been made.
And I asked what makes you so sure of that. And no one answers that question.
The reasoning is pretty simple. Moon & Floyd have both been on the team for almost 2 full seasons now (3 for Floyd if you count the sit year), and neither of them has gotten any better. Both had serious flaws in their game when they first got here, and neither have improved one ounce.

Right now neither Clements nor Moten has looked that good in their limited playing time. Still I'd like to see the unknown quantities get some PT over the known quantities in this case. Still I don't think we'd be very good either way.

Bingo. I'd take my sister over some of the guys getting minutes right now. Is there anybody on this board that likes to see Patrick Phillips get off the bench before Moten? You ask what makes me so sure? I'd take just about any 2 freshman in the country ahead of Floyd and Moon.

Like I've said before, this year, especially the last ten games, have basically amounted to an extended training session. Instead of playing the young guys with potential, so we could know what we had going into next year, we've sunk the meaningful PT into a bunch of guys that have peaked into mediocre basketball players. At some point, the future has to be accounted for.