Has anyone mentioned 2nd half collapses yet??

cph2133 · Post by **cph2133** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:40 pm

factman wrote:Might defenseive play be the key to Marschall's playing minutes?

That's what I've thought. He's a liability on the defensive end. Not quite big enough to play true post D, not quite fast enough to be outside of the key. Offensively his game is better than Polk's and Larson's combined, so I can't imagine that's the issue.

BGSU10 · Post by **BGSU10** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:37 pm

I know the shootings been cold in the second half but that coaching. making second half adjustments and putting the kids in the right spot to make a basket. im not happy with the coaching right now.

Falconboy · Post by **Falconboy** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:09 pm

BGSU10 wrote:I know the shootings been cold in the second half but that coaching. making second half adjustments and putting the kids in the right spot to make a basket. im not happy with the coaching right now.

I'm not giving up on the coaching just yet. I think we're witnessing a case of simply too little talent to make any difference here. Yeah , our collection of talent on this team is just not that good. We're not winning any Mac Championship this year so people need to get that fact into their heads now or suffer needless agony later. I have no expectations for this current squad. I'm waiting for next year and the year after when Orr has his players here.

cowboyjoe · Post by **cowboyjoe** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:11 pm

I'm waiting for next year and the year after when Orr has his players here.

You mean like Madlock and Calhoun?

ZuluWarrior · Post by **ZuluWarrior** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:10 am

[I know the shootings been cold in the second half but that coaching. making second half adjustments and putting the kids in the right spot to make a basket. im not happy with the coaching right now.]

I'm not giving up on the coaching just yet. I think we're witnessing a case of simply too little talent to make any difference here. Yeah , our collection of talent on this team is just not that good. We're not winning any Mac Championship this year so people need to get that fact into their heads now or suffer needless agony later. I have no expectations for this current squad. I'm waiting for next year and the year after when Orr has his players here.]

So here's my problem. This team can play with OSU and Minny, win almost all of the first halfs, yet blows second halfs, blows small and big leads and makes a lot of mental errors, player storming off, horrible shot selection, etc... I'll give Coach Orr another year of full support (yes, calling out concerns can allow for full support, but I think its fair to call out specific issues), and a lot of things need to change beyond the talent of the current team. If I were to make one suggestion I do think he needs to have a more Norman Dale approach...Take No BS, four passes before every shot, etc...

CrazyFan · Post by **CrazyFan** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:54 pm

ZuluWarrior wrote:[I know the shootings been cold in the second half but that coaching. making second half adjustments and putting the kids in the right spot to make a basket. im not happy with the coaching right now.]

I'm not giving up on the coaching just yet. I think we're witnessing a case of simply too little talent to make any difference here. Yeah , our collection of talent on this team is just not that good. We're not winning any Mac Championship this year so people need to get that fact into their heads now or suffer needless agony later. I have no expectations for this current squad. I'm waiting for next year and the year after when Orr has his players here.]

So here's my problem. This team can play with OSU and Minny, win almost all of the first halfs, yet blows second halfs, blows small and big leads and makes a lot of mental errors, player storming off, horrible shot selection, etc... I'll give Coach Orr another year of full support (yes, calling out concerns can allow for full support, but I think its fair to call out specific issues), and a lot of things need to change beyond the talent of the current team. If I were to make one suggestion I do think he needs to have a more Norman Dale approach...Take No BS, four passes before every shot, etc...

You mean like Dan Dakich????? We rode him outta here and now we got the Mary Poppins of college basketball. This teams problems go way beyond the "talent" level and Orr having his "own" players. 75% of the problems i se with this team is flat out coaching. Many will disagree with me, but that's my opinion.

transfer2BGSU · Post by **transfer2BGSU** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:50 pm

CrazyFan wrote:Many will disagree with me, but that's my opinion.

Opinions are like belly buttons - everyone has one

CrazyFan · Post by **CrazyFan** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:57 pm

transfer2BGSU wrote:
CrazyFan wrote:Many will disagree with me, but that's my opinion.
Opinions are like belly buttons - everyone has one

But not everyones belly button is pierced........????????? The thought of the day???

CrazyFan · Post by **CrazyFan** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:12 pm

I just dont think Louis Orr is the answer for the program. I didnt say a word when he was hired cause i wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he had to offer. I understand his players are not in place, BUT from what i see our problems are COACHING problems. I do not take hammb's excuses that we are not talented enough or strong enough to compete in the 2nd half. If we can compete in the 1st, we can compete in the 2nd. Its all conditioning, and i think were a decent conditioned team. Its all about 2nd half adjustments. The other teams are making them; we are not. That is coaching. Louis Orr is to soft of a coach and that is exactly why Seton Hall got rid of him. When he took over Seton Hall he had good players and won for a few years. When he took over BG he had decent to bad players and his true colors are showing. Im not lobbying for DD. A change was/is needed. Louis Orr is not the solution. You will all find that out in 3 years. Happy Martin Luther King Day!

renorvis · Post by **renorvis** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:35 pm

CrazyFan wrote:I just dont think Louis Orr is the answer for the program. I didnt say a word when he was hired cause i wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he had to offer. I understand his players are not in place, BUT from what i see our problems are COACHING problems. I do not take hammb's excuses that we are not talented enough or strong enough to compete in the 2nd half. If we can compete in the 1st, we can compete in the 2nd. Its all conditioning, and i think were a decent conditioned team. Its all about 2nd half adjustments. The other teams are making them; we are not. That is coaching. Louis Orr is to soft of a coach and that is exactly why Seton Hall got rid of him. When he took over Seton Hall he had good players and won for a few years. When he took over BG he had decent to bad players and his true colors are showing. Im not lobbying for DD. A change was/is needed. Louis Orr is not the solution. You will all find that out in 3 years. Happy Martin Luther King Day!

Are you serious??? If you do your research then you would know that Orr left Seton Hall because of differences with the AD. And second this school has not been to the tournament since? If DD was a "hard" coach oppose to Orr being "soft" then why didn't DD "hard" approach work? Clearly it did not since a lot of talented players transfered out. Even when this program had talented players they reached no post season action. Orr went I believe three out five years he was head coach at Seton Hall. A coach can only do so much it is up to the players to execute. If the players do not handle runs by the opposing team, the coach can only call so many timeouts to calm his team down. The coach can draw so many plays. If the players cannot execute them then it is a PLAYERS problem. If you think Orr is soft then what do you think of Jackson???

BleedOrange · Post by **BleedOrange** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:39 pm

CrazyFan wrote:I just dont think Louis Orr is the answer for the program. I didnt say a word when he was hired cause i wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he had to offer. I understand his players are not in place, BUT from what i see our problems are COACHING problems. I do not take hammb's excuses that we are not talented enough or strong enough to compete in the 2nd half. If we can compete in the 1st, we can compete in the 2nd. Its all conditioning, and i think were a decent conditioned team. Its all about 2nd half adjustments. The other teams are making them; we are not. That is coaching. Louis Orr is to soft of a coach and that is exactly why Seton Hall got rid of him. When he took over Seton Hall he had good players and won for a few years. When he took over BG he had decent to bad players and his true colors are showing. Im not lobbying for DD. A change was/is needed. Louis Orr is not the solution. You will all find that out in 3 years. Happy Martin Luther King Day!

What specific half time adjustments should we have made in the Kent or Akron games?

How is Orr too soft as a coach? What isn't he doing? What should he start doing to be tougher?

BleedOrange · Post by **BleedOrange** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:54 pm

cph2133 wrote:
factman wrote:Might defenseive play be the key to Marschall's playing minutes?
That's what I've thought. He's a liability on the defensive end. Not quite big enough to play true post D, not quite fast enough to be outside of the key. Offensively his game is better than Polk's and Larson's combined, so I can't imagine that's the issue.

Defensive play, really? Marcshall is faster, quicker, strong, and more athletic than Larson. He gives up 2 inches, but at least one of those inches has to be in Larson's neck (seriously, look at him. He's a giraffe). Marcshall is a better leaper. While Larson may be a very smart player, Marcshall has become a savvy player himself. Marcshall is a FAR better rebounder. He's a much better ball handler. Furthermore, he's much less turnover prone -- he can actually catch interior feeds. I think that there is more to it, factman.

We sat through years of Ryan and Floyd getting way too much playing time. Now, we have a new coach who plays a DII talent when those minutes should go to Marchsall, Polk, Knight, and Thomas. WTF?

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:28 am

BleedOrange wrote:
cph2133 wrote:
factman wrote:Might defenseive play be the key to Marschall's playing minutes?
That's what I've thought. He's a liability on the defensive end. Not quite big enough to play true post D, not quite fast enough to be outside of the key. Offensively his game is better than Polk's and Larson's combined, so I can't imagine that's the issue.
Defensive play, really? Marcshall is faster, quicker, strong, and more athletic than Larson. He gives up 2 inches, but at least one of those inches has to be in Larson's neck (seriously, look at him. He's a giraffe). Marcshall is a better leaper. While Larson may be a very smart player, Marcshall has become a savvy player himself. Marcshall is a FAR better rebounder. He's a much better ball handler. Furthermore, he's much less turnover prone -- he can actually catch interior feeds. I think that there is more to it, factman.

We sat through years of Ryan and Floyd getting way too much playing time. Now, we have a new coach who plays a DII talent when those minutes should go to Marchsall, Polk, Knight, and Thomas. WTF?

Every once in awhile I like to look at the season stats and just chuckle. Larson plays more minutes than Polk (largely due to OP's foul issues), and averages like half as many boards per game. Marc Larson very well might go down as the worst rebounder I have ever seen. The one thing you'd think a guy with his bulk should be able to do and he's flat awful.

He does a decent job defensively. He's not as athletic as Marschall, but Larson seems to do a pretty good job with defensive positioning, until he goes against a superior athlete.

Honestly, I have no idea why he gets so much playing time. Other than Dusan I don't think there was anybody on the roster when Orr got here with less natural basketball talent than Larson.

BleedOrange · Post by **BleedOrange** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:21 am

It is getting genuinely irritating. I am a season ticket holder and I live near Akron, so I face a 4-5 hour round trip to attend BG games. I got sick of making the drive to see Floyd, Ryan, and Dusan. Now, it's Larson getting minutes of several FAR better players. It's getting hard to take.