Thought the same thing when I read that. That's just another piss-poor excuse to mask the bigger problem at BG. OU has been a solid program for years. But what many people don't realize is Kent State and Akron used to be like, well, like BG is now. I would take ANY of those coaches over what we have right now. No hesitation. And if you took any of those three coaches and out them at BG, we seem drastic improvement in two years with players, schemes, development and improvement. Kent State made it's first NCAA Tournament appearance in 1999 I believe, and they have been one of the MAC's top programs since despite having several different coaches. Same with Ohio. Akron has Dambrot and they play in the MAC Championship basically every season.HoopsFan wrote:Huh? So Kent, OU, Akron, etc. can put consistent winning programs together but BG can't because the talent doesn't stay in the area?
Can Orr save himself?
Re: Can Orr save himself?
GO BG!!!
Re: Can Orr save himself?
OU and the others over there are riding a little momentum right now. Looking at the big picture I have noticed Ohio recently lost HC John Groce to Illinois, with that, Caris LaVert backed off and signed with Michigan. Groce had taken OU the to the Sweet 16 beating Michigan and South Fla to to so. Jim Christian took over the Bobcats after Groce's departure. Christian had EVERYONE returning form the tournament team. They underachieved last season leaving their fans highly disappointed I would think.
Last summer Darius Paul, MAC Freshman of the Year, quit at Western Michigan and is now sitting out a year at Illinois. These are the show stoppers that have turned me off about the MAC, but I have learned to live with it. I am taking the Orr situation in stride knowing it will pass. I also realize we will hire a someone soon and things will hopefully get better. I think it is pretty safe to say whomever takes the job will need to place us in the NCAA Tournament. Anything less will be the same old same old.
Last summer Darius Paul, MAC Freshman of the Year, quit at Western Michigan and is now sitting out a year at Illinois. These are the show stoppers that have turned me off about the MAC, but I have learned to live with it. I am taking the Orr situation in stride knowing it will pass. I also realize we will hire a someone soon and things will hopefully get better. I think it is pretty safe to say whomever takes the job will need to place us in the NCAA Tournament. Anything less will be the same old same old.
SAme old Same old
Re: Can Orr save himself?
Winning the MAC is always tough. Sustaining it is even tougher. That being said it's not at all true to say that it's impossible to win in the MAC, or at BG in particular. It's very hard to believe (for me) that it's been this long ago now, but 15-20 years ago we were damn good. We had a stretch of 5-6 years between Larranaga and Dakich that we had winning records in conference each year, and multiple 20+ win seasons in that time. I know we always choked in the stupid MAC tournament, but at least we played exciting basketball, had NBA talent players (as did much of the MAC back then), and were generally a blast to watch.
I want us to make the NCAA tournament more than anything. The only thing BG sports could do to compare with an NCAA tournament berth to me is somehow make a BCS Bowl game. Those are the absolute pinnacles of BG sports to me...the two premier money sports finding themselves on the largest stage. That's what I want.
But at this point I can't even DREAM about that NCAA tournament berth. Right now I'm looking for somebody to come into this program and realize that you CAN win here. You've got a great arena. You've got a great school. Now get your ass out there and start recruiting some legitimate basketball players. UT has gone from an absolute trainwreck to having one of the best teams in the MAC. Akron has been relevant and damned good for the past 10 years. There is talent in Toledo, Cleveland, Columbus, Detroit...not ALL of it is Big10 caliber talent, and getting some of that talent to BG should be the goal.
I know we can win here. It just takes a coach who actually gives a damn about the program and is willing to put the work in to make it a winner. Dan was that guy for his first time here, and for whatever reason was never the same after the WVU incident. Find me a new young coach who is willing to be a fiery leader to breathe some life into this program. I'm confident that if Kingston can find that guy we WILL win again. And when we do the Stroh Center is going to be an awesome place to be.
I want us to make the NCAA tournament more than anything. The only thing BG sports could do to compare with an NCAA tournament berth to me is somehow make a BCS Bowl game. Those are the absolute pinnacles of BG sports to me...the two premier money sports finding themselves on the largest stage. That's what I want.
But at this point I can't even DREAM about that NCAA tournament berth. Right now I'm looking for somebody to come into this program and realize that you CAN win here. You've got a great arena. You've got a great school. Now get your ass out there and start recruiting some legitimate basketball players. UT has gone from an absolute trainwreck to having one of the best teams in the MAC. Akron has been relevant and damned good for the past 10 years. There is talent in Toledo, Cleveland, Columbus, Detroit...not ALL of it is Big10 caliber talent, and getting some of that talent to BG should be the goal.
I know we can win here. It just takes a coach who actually gives a damn about the program and is willing to put the work in to make it a winner. Dan was that guy for his first time here, and for whatever reason was never the same after the WVU incident. Find me a new young coach who is willing to be a fiery leader to breathe some life into this program. I'm confident that if Kingston can find that guy we WILL win again. And when we do the Stroh Center is going to be an awesome place to be.
Re: Can Orr save himself?
Larry Hunter coached at OU and they won the MAC and went to the NCAA's, Tim O'Shea coached OU and they won the MAC and went to the NCAA's, Jim Groce coached OU and they won the MAC and went to the NCAA's, and Jim Christian is there and will at some point in the near future (or this season, who knows) win the MAC and go to the NCAA's. Point being, OU gets guys who come in, recruit talented players, succeed, win the MAC, go to the NCAA's, etc. Coach after coach does it there. BG has never done it. Further, over the last NINE consecutive years a MAC East team has won the MAC and went to the NCAA's: Ohio 3 times, Akron 3 times, Kent State 2 times and Miami 1 times. If our peers can do it, we should too!zete wrote:OU and the others over there are riding a little momentum right now. Looking at the big picture I have noticed Ohio recently lost HC John Groce to Illinois, with that, Caris LaVert backed off and signed with Michigan. Groce had taken OU the to the Sweet 16 beating Michigan and South Fla to to so. Jim Christian took over the Bobcats after Groce's departure. Christian had EVERYONE returning form the tournament team. They underachieved last season leaving their fans highly disappointed I would think.
GO BG!!!
Re: Can Orr save himself?
I agree with what you said and feel the same way. I don't even care if BG gets to the NCAA Tournament and gets hammered at this point, I just want t see BG win the MAC Tournament and get there just once in my lifetime! For whatever reason, the MAC Tournament has killed BG no matter if we're good or bad. But the great thing about the way it is formatted now is, if you're good (one of the top two seeds), you only need to win two games and you're MAC Champions and headed to the NCAA Tournament. I wish we would have had this format back in 1997, 2000 and 2002. But if we can somehow put together a good team again in near future years, the task of getting to the NCAA Tournament since 1968 has a less daunting road in the MAC Tournament than it did prior to last year's format change.hammb wrote:Winning the MAC is always tough. Sustaining it is even tougher. That being said it's not at all true to say that it's impossible to win in the MAC, or at BG in particular. It's very hard to believe (for me) that it's been this long ago now, but 15-20 years ago we were damn good. We had a stretch of 5-6 years between Larranaga and Dakich that we had winning records in conference each year, and multiple 20+ win seasons in that time. I know we always choked in the stupid MAC tournament, but at least we played exciting basketball, had NBA talent players (as did much of the MAC back then), and were generally a blast to watch.
I want us to make the NCAA tournament more than anything. The only thing BG sports could do to compare with an NCAA tournament berth to me is somehow make a BCS Bowl game. Those are the absolute pinnacles of BG sports to me...the two premier money sports finding themselves on the largest stage. That's what I want.
But at this point I can't even DREAM about that NCAA tournament berth. Right now I'm looking for somebody to come into this program and realize that you CAN win here. You've got a great arena. You've got a great school. Now get your ass out there and start recruiting some legitimate basketball players. UT has gone from an absolute trainwreck to having one of the best teams in the MAC. Akron has been relevant and damned good for the past 10 years. There is talent in Toledo, Cleveland, Columbus, Detroit...not ALL of it is Big10 caliber talent, and getting some of that talent to BG should be the goal.
I know we can win here. It just takes a coach who actually gives a damn about the program and is willing to put the work in to make it a winner. Dan was that guy for his first time here, and for whatever reason was never the same after the WVU incident. Find me a new young coach who is willing to be a fiery leader to breathe some life into this program. I'm confident that if Kingston can find that guy we WILL win again. And when we do the Stroh Center is going to be an awesome place to be.
GO BG!!!
Re: Can Orr save himself?
I think when the Mac Tournament started the powers to be thought it would help us get more teams to the NCAAs - not happening. I think the tournament is fun for the fans on the eastern side of the state. Last two year OU and Akron both should have gone. If it wasn't for the tournament we would have gone in 99 I think it was. We ran into Wally World.
SAme old Same old
Re: Can Orr save himself?
BG had some of its best teams in the last 20 years in 1997, 2000 and 2002. In 1997 we were led by Antonio Daniels (fourth overall pick in the NBA draft), in 2000 we were led by BG's all-time leafing scorer Anthony Stacey and in 2002 we were led by Keith McLeod (also played in the NBA). In all three cases the MAC Tournament killed us. We lost to EMU in the semifinals in 1997, we got majorly knocked off as the #1 seed by Miami including a prayer three that MU's Jason Grunkemeyer hit to force OT where we fell in 2000, and Kent State beat us in the MAC Championship in 2002 in a game BG led in the second half. Three of our losses were to KSU that year and Kent State advanced to the Elite Eight that season.zete wrote:I think when the Mac Tournament started the powers to be thought it would help us get more teams to the NCAAs - not happening. I think the tournament is fun for the fans on the eastern side of the state. Last two year OU and Akron both should have gone. If it wasn't for the tournament we would have gone in 99 I think it was. We ran into Wally World.
The 2000 season was toughest to swallow that year for me because of the way we lost. I think the 1997 team was the best of those three and most dangerous to make runs against bigger schools in the NCAA Tournament had we gotten in (BG had beaten Purdue, Mississippi State and Nebraska that year) and Daniels was an amazing college player that year. In 2002 we had a team that in most any other year would have won the MAC, but KSU was just better and we couldn't beat them.
GO BG!!!
Re: Can Orr save himself?
33, you have presented enough evidence to convince me not much good has come out of it from a BG pov. It is probably one of the many reasons so many people have stopped following the men's team. They have come to realize that Cleveland can be a quick trip - The End. I mean, if your team wins the regular season, the MAC tourney could quite possibly send their fans home highly disappointed. I sure would not want to travel to Cleveland from Oxford, Illinois, Mt Pleasant, Muncie after winning the league only to return home with a runner up story. Then the yearly NIT road game. Life in the MAC can surely SUCK. ](/img/ayziggyzoomba/58/58/54314911ff35ed959956620e68458f73.gif "Brick wall")
SAme old Same old
Re: Can Orr save himself?
Cleveland doesn't even happen anymore. We have a coach who has only seen Cleveland 3 times in 6 seasons and in 2 of those years everyone made it. Life in the MAC is tough. One bid and 12 teams. However, when you only have 3 coaches in 28 years, you better be hiring better coaches than Louis Orr. His 2 year extension will be a 5+ year burial for the program. BG needs to stop being so nice.
Re: Can Orr save himself?
The MAC tournament was founded for the same reason as every other conference tournament: to make money. They get some decent crowds in the Q, especially if KSU or Akron make it far. No doubt that brings in some nice cash for the conference. I'll also say that when I was in college and a few years after (of course I was in school for 2 of the years 33 mentioned...) a buddy & I did the entire MAC tournament. It was affordable, around $100, I think, and it was a damned good time to watch some good basketball for a few days and hang out in Cleveland.
Unfortunately, the downside of the tournament is that it really takes some of the meaning out of the regular season and if they get upset it can keep some better teams out of the dance.
I love the changes they have made to give byes to the top seeds...it should be a MAJOR advantage to go through the conference slate and finish with one of the best records. Of course I wouldn't cry if we went the way of the Ivy League and got rid of our tournament and just sent our regular season champ to the dance either.
Either way, I long for the days when we can discuss the MAC tournament/conference championship in a meaningful way regarding BG basketball. My god it was fun watching the likes of Daniels, Esterkamp, Stacey, Pardon, McLeod, etc. I feel sorry for basketball fans that attend the university now, there is none of that. Hell the entire MAC has fallen so hard it's not even funny. Back then there were future NBA players in the building on a weekly basis, now the entire conference might have one or two guys that get a tryout somewhere. This is the price we've paid for maintaining a D1 football presence while other mid major conferences have dedicated resources to hoops.
Unfortunately, the downside of the tournament is that it really takes some of the meaning out of the regular season and if they get upset it can keep some better teams out of the dance.
I love the changes they have made to give byes to the top seeds...it should be a MAJOR advantage to go through the conference slate and finish with one of the best records. Of course I wouldn't cry if we went the way of the Ivy League and got rid of our tournament and just sent our regular season champ to the dance either.
Either way, I long for the days when we can discuss the MAC tournament/conference championship in a meaningful way regarding BG basketball. My god it was fun watching the likes of Daniels, Esterkamp, Stacey, Pardon, McLeod, etc. I feel sorry for basketball fans that attend the university now, there is none of that. Hell the entire MAC has fallen so hard it's not even funny. Back then there were future NBA players in the building on a weekly basis, now the entire conference might have one or two guys that get a tryout somewhere. This is the price we've paid for maintaining a D1 football presence while other mid major conferences have dedicated resources to hoops.
