Does this team finish with a winning record?

[Flipper]

I prefer to cite Springsteen's "Rosalita" when discussing the men's program...

"My machine's she's a dud, I'm stuck in the mud somewhere in the swamps of Jersey"

Ok, maybe this ain't Jersey....but still...

[orangeandbrown]

I don't think there;s any argument. We are clearly not in the top tier of MAC programs and it should have happened this year. I have been pointing to this year for a while, and we just don't seem to get any better. And I agree with Hammb. I don't think any of our players are significantly better than they were as Sophomores or Juniors.

[Warthog]

I don't think any of our players are significantly better than they were as Sophomores or Juniors.

Couldn't agree more. The players seem to be stagnant. Go look at their stats over the course of their careers and it's amazing.

Thomas - Over each of the last three years, he's played basically 34 mins per game. Averaging fewer points as a senior than he did as a soph. More turnovers, fewer blocks and stagnant on rebounds and assists. His FG% and 3ptFG% are up slightly. Steals is the only real improvement.

Brown - Actually playing slightly fewer minutes as a senior. Basically averaged 10.5 points each of his three seasons. FG% and 3pt FG% are down significantly. Assists are up slightly this year, but almost all other stats are the same for three straight seasons.

Crawford - Points are up slightly, but so are his minutes. The stat that stands out here is assists to turnover ratio. Was 4.0 to 2.1 last season, so basically 2-1. This season it's 4.9-3.6. That's a huge jump in TOs.

The players are getting better and you could say some are actually regressing. Not point the finger at any individuals, but something needs to change.

[BleedOrange]

I don't think any of our players are significantly better than they were as Sophomores or Juniors.

Couldn't agree more. The players seem to be stagnant. Go look at their stats over the course of their careers and it's amazing.

Thomas - Over each of the last three years, he's played basically 34 mins per game. Averaging fewer points as a senior than he did as a soph. More turnovers, fewer blocks and stagnant on rebounds and assists. His FG% and 3ptFG% are up slightly. Steals is the only real improvement.

Brown - Actually playing slightly fewer minutes as a senior. Basically averaged 10.5 points each of his three seasons. FG% and 3pt FG% are down significantly. Assists are up slightly this year, but almost all other stats are the same for three straight seasons.

Crawford - Points are up slightly, but so are his minutes. The stat that stands out here is assists to turnover ratio. Was 4.0 to 2.1 last season, so basically 2-1. This season it's 4.9-3.6. That's a huge jump in TOs.

The players are getting better and you could say some are actually regressing. Not point the finger at any individuals, but something needs to change.

The one exception is Craig Sealey, the most gifted player in the program. He showed up as a sophomore clearly better than as a freshman. Nevertheless, Orr does not play him consistent, regular minutes so he can continue growing from his off-season work. If we have to suffer .500 and below seasons, it would be nice to develop young talent in the process. Next year, Clarke, Henderson, and Sealey will start the season effectively as freshman after our regulars treated us to another pointless season.

This program is going absolutely NOWHERE!

[Warthog]

The one exception is Craig Sealey,

I was only trying to look at players who have significant playing time over three seasons. So I wasn't including Sealey in my quick analysis. But for what it's worth, Sealey's FG% has dropped from 51% to 45%.

[bgsufalcon24]

There seemed to be a lot of negative energy and vibes throughout the Stroh during tonight's game vs Kent. I couldn't really understand why at first, but this thread has shed some light on it. Evidently most BG fans thought that we were going to be atop the MAC this year, and aren't happy with 8-6.

I look at it this way...we've been between mediocre and decent under Orr. Not great, not making the NCAAs, but we've got a conference regular season crown, and in the other years we've been right around .500 in conference.

Compare this to when Dakich was here, when we SUCKED. Every year. (At least from when I showed on campus going forward, I know he had some success early on) Those 2005 through 2007 teams were so painful to watch. It's not hyperbole to say that I wasn't even a fan of BG men's basketball until Orr showed up...watching those Dakich teams weren't worth the pain in the buttocks caused by the hard floors and benches of Anderson. So really, I feel that if we get rid of Orr, we could really be biting ourselves in the ass and make things worse if we don't make the right hire.

[hammb]

There seemed to be a lot of negative energy and vibes throughout the Stroh during tonight's game vs Kent. I couldn't really understand why at first, but this thread has shed some light on it. Evidently most BG fans thought that we were going to be atop the MAC this year, and aren't happy with 8-6.

I look at it this way...we've been between mediocre and decent under Orr. Not great, not making the NCAAs, but we've got a conference regular season crown, and in the other years we've been right around .500 in conference.

Compare this to when Dakich was here, when we SUCKED. Every year. (At least from when I showed on campus going forward, I know he had some success early on) Those 2005 through 2007 teams were so painful to watch. It's not hyperbole to say that I wasn't even a fan of BG men's basketball until Orr showed up...watching those Dakich teams weren't worth the pain in the buttocks caused by the hard floors and benches of Anderson. So really, I feel that if we get rid of Orr, we could really be biting ourselves in the ass and make things worse if we don't make the right hire.

This is because you never really knew the "House that Roars". Anderson Arena used to rock. We had exciting teams, great talent, and the MAC was a damn good hoops conference. Guys like Bonzi Wells, Gary Trent, Antonio Daniels, Keith McLeod, Antonio Gates, Wally Sczerbiak, etc, etc.

Yeah, the final 4-5 years of the Dakich era were HORRIBLE. They were far worse than what the Orr era has been, not going to deny that. But I'm not happy with where this program is right now. I would gladly take the chance of getting it wrong than settle for mediocrity. With a brand new arena that is the class of the conference, along with a huge new endowment, I think we have a chance to make BG basketball the premier program in the MAC. But I don't think Orr is the coach to take us there.

[bgsufalcon24]

There seemed to be a lot of negative energy and vibes throughout the Stroh during tonight's game vs Kent. I couldn't really understand why at first, but this thread has shed some light on it. Evidently most BG fans thought that we were going to be atop the MAC this year, and aren't happy with 8-6.

I look at it this way...we've been between mediocre and decent under Orr. Not great, not making the NCAAs, but we've got a conference regular season crown, and in the other years we've been right around .500 in conference.

Compare this to when Dakich was here, when we SUCKED. Every year. (At least from when I showed on campus going forward, I know he had some success early on) Those 2005 through 2007 teams were so painful to watch. It's not hyperbole to say that I wasn't even a fan of BG men's basketball until Orr showed up...watching those Dakich teams weren't worth the pain in the buttocks caused by the hard floors and benches of Anderson. So really, I feel that if we get rid of Orr, we could really be biting ourselves in the ass and make things worse if we don't make the right hire.

This is because you never really knew the "House that Roars". Anderson Arena used to rock. We had exciting teams, great talent, and the MAC was a damn good hoops conference. Guys like Bonzi Wells, Gary Trent, Antonio Daniels, Keith McLeod, Antonio Gates, Wally Sczerbiak, etc, etc.

Yeah, the final 4-5 years of the Dakich era were HORRIBLE. They were far worse than what the Orr era has been, not going to deny that. But I'm not happy with where this program is right now. I would gladly take the chance of getting it wrong than settle for mediocrity. With a brand new arena that is the class of the conference, along with a huge new endowment, I think we have a chance to make BG basketball the premier program in the MAC. But I don't think Orr is the coach to take us there.

It's too bad I never saw Anderson in its heyday...if I was a few years older I would've seen our teams from 2000-2002 when we were selling the place out. The atmosphere must have been rowdy, rough, and disconcerting for opposing teams given how AA was designed. It just had the appearance and feel of a complete dump when the seats were empty and the team was losing. Some of the women's games were very noisy and intense during my time on campus but very few of the men's games were.

Can't disagree with your take on shooting high and not settling for mediocrity though. I guess what you see as mediocre is what I see as "the best we've ever done since I've followed the program". So maybe I'm more risk averse because I've never seen us truly dominate the MAC in men's basketball. Granted outside of women's basketball (and rugby even though that's a sidebar) we haven't been dominating much of anything lately...

[JWEIII]

Orr guy here!

MAC East has been tough in the Orr era. He got a MAC (regular season) title. (Ahh I DO miss Miller Time). He's in the mix for a top tourney seed with a week left. And they can play with any team in the league on any given day. AND THIS TEAM IS FUN TO WATCH!

I'm Class of '97 so I was spoiled in the Daniels' years. No offense to Stacey, Matella, McLeod, Reimold, Almonson or Netter, but I can't remember a more explosive team since Tone-yo.

And I like Crawford, Clarke, Sealey, Calhoun and Black next year.

But I drink...

[JWEIII]

AND let's not forget this team is 3 points away from 2 more MAC wins (Akron by 1 and Buffalo by 2). NOBODY wants to see BG in the tournament.

[zete]

I liked my post so much, I copy/pasted it here too.
Was wondering what is so special about KSUs Justin Greene when I was told he is not 100%. He was still able to score some points. BUT it seemed several of his shots were rejected by BGs inside game.
My take on BG is that they are a solid team with decent DI players. So I give Louis Orr credit. What is puzzling is the fact they seem to underachieve. Not being able to win on the road, unable to win some close games at home, etc. After all they did beat Temple, a top 25 team. Thus, I feel with just a little better coaching and a little luck we could be at the top of the heap in the MAC;and, be putting 1200 more butts in the seats.

_________________

[Flipper]

I'd be more optimistic about the future if I saw something to be optimistic about...I don't see it.

[hammb]

I'd be more optimistic about the future if I saw something to be optimistic about...I don't see it.

Agreed.

We lose our best all around player, our 6th man, and our starting SG for next year. I foresee another year of our Juniors not getting any better, our young guys putting up more stats because they play more minutes, and another lackluster season between 12-18 wins.

I've just seen very little from Orr's teams to make me believe he has the ability to put us over the top. Even the year he won the MAC it was because of a down year overall. And we still couldn't win 20 games.

[Globetrotter]

I think we will be fine next year. Clarke will turn out to be an upgrade at the 2 guard spot and Holmes will make the loss of Oglesby a wash. Thomas will be a huge loss though. I see big things from Sealey and Black next season as they are given more responsibilities. Thats all without a change at HC. With a change maybe we see more discipline, and development for every body.