BGSU needs to win us back

[BGFalconfromCincy]

Clarke isn't going to amount to much as a floor leader until he starts caring about winning vs losing.

I'm excited about the future here...I want to hear and see what the Stroh is like when it's filled with fans cheering for an exciting and dynamic basketball team.

ME too. Will you sit with me?

Maybe Transfer can too.

If you can get me seats next to Transfer I'll gladly sit with you guys!

The atmosphere at the UT game was pretty awesome. If we could build a consistent winner I think it'd be like that for every game, and I'd be a very happy camper.

Where does transfer sit?

The chair with the PA microphone in front of it

[vwfalcon]

He isn't faculty. And it's standard practice to fire before the last year. It should have been budgeted for and planned for.

While you may be right, he is still paid by funds from the university. University funds and student fees are used for the athletic department budget as well as donations. Think of it this way, now we have no financial obligation to him allowing us to pay a more competitive salary to the next coach with no excuse of still owing 6 figures or whatever the buyout would have been to Orr. My only point was it didn't make sense to fire him and have an AD who is no longer here hire a guy and not allow the incoming one to make his own decision. Financially it would have been dumb.

[Globetrotter]

He isn't faculty. And it's standard practice to fire before the last year. It should have been budgeted for and planned for.

While you may be right, he is still paid by funds from the university. University funds and student fees are used for the athletic department budget as well as donations. Think of it this way, now we have no financial obligation to him allowing us to pay a more competitive salary to the next coach with no excuse of still owing 6 figures or whatever the buyout would have been to Orr. My only point was it didn't make sense to fire him and have an AD who is no longer here hire a guy and not allow the incoming one to make his own decision. Financially it would have been dumb.

I can guarantee you that there was a net loss by keeping Orr. We lost atleast 200K by people not donating, going to games, students not caring and then not donating as alumni or returning for games. Etc.

[Globetrotter]

Clarke isn't going to amount to much as a floor leader until he starts caring about winning vs losing.

I'm excited about the future here...I want to hear and see what the Stroh is like when it's filled with fans cheering for an exciting and dynamic basketball team.

ME too. Will you sit with me?

Maybe Transfer can too.

If you can get me seats next to Transfer I'll gladly sit with you guys!

The atmosphere at the UT game was pretty awesome. If we could build a consistent winner I think it'd be like that for every game, and I'd be a very happy camper.

Where does transfer sit?

The chair with the PA microphone in front of it

Ahh, so thats why he has to be so rah rah. Well that makes a lot more sense now.

[factman]

Right in front of me!

[BleedOrange]

Meh. '33, it's this simple: new coach wins, fans come back. Program continues to flounder, would-be fans continue ignoring program. BG basketball competes for would-be fans attention...the program competes in the local entertainment marketplace.

It won't even occur to anyone at BGSU that it "owes" to particular individuals (like yourself) something after staging a shitty basketball product. If possible, go outside, get down on all fours, kiss the ground, and be grateful you can still touch it. Nobody in the administration will care if you (or I) ever attend a BGSU basketball game or not.

[HoopsFan]

Right in front of me!

Hmmm, I sit behind Transfer so we must be really close

HoopsFan

[Flipper]

I'll sit next to anyone who can stand hot dog induced flatulence....

[transfer2BGSU]

Ahh, so thats why he has to be so rah rah. Well that makes a lot more sense now.

It's not being rah-rah. I'm an alum. I support my team.

I knew before the season that this would be the final year of the Orr contract. I understand why we did not waste money on a buy-out and allowed him to fulfill the terms of his contract. I like Coach Orr, he is a fine gentleman. But Coach Orr is a Coach. And I realize that coaches are hired to be fired or to move on. But the players on this team deserve my support all the time. They had the choice of attending BGSU or going elsewhere. They elected to attend here and when they did - they became members of my team. For that reason - I support them.

Coaches come and coaches go-but it's the players that play the game. Your jersey says BOWLING GREEN on the front, and I will support you and your teammates.

He isn't faculty. And it's standard practice to fire before the last year. It should have been budgeted for and planned for.

As for the nonsense of how we should have fired him because it's common practice - you have been at O$U for too long. It may be common practice to fire coaches at BC$ conference programs. Unlike Illinois, we can't afford to pay $7.12 million to three coaches not to do the job we signed a contract for. It would be nice if we were part of a conference that distributed $284 million to members (2012 Big Ten Distribution) and could afford to do that. But that's not the BGSU way. And if I were the President of the University of Illinois, my Athletic Director would be on his way out of his job for wasting $7.12 million.

I can guarantee you that there was a net loss by keeping Orr. We lost atleast 200K by people not donating, going to games, students not caring and then not donating as alumni or returning for games. Etc.

And the facts would tell you that you were wrong on this one.

Using 2012 salary information (Courtesy of the Toledo Blade), the total salaries of the basketball staff was $417,345.48
Subtract the the $200,000 you say we lost and that comes up to $217,345.48 in our favor.

Pay the current staff $417.345.48
Pay a new staff $459.080 (that's a 10% increase over 2012)
TOTAL is $876,425.51
Gain $200K in donations
We lose $676,425

The difference between losing $676,425 and saving $217,345 is $893,770

[Globetrotter]

1. That's awesome but I don't share your unconditional love.

2. Can you name other schools that have let their coaches contracts runout and went into dead years? Most teams in the MAC even fire before that year comes


3. I don't think you are logically exploring this correctly.

1. One staff was getting paid no matter what. You can't count both staffs in the equation.
2. I don't think the assistant men's coaches have guaranteed contracts the same way the head coach does. I could be wrong.
3. The buyout was probably not equal to his entire salary.

And I will assume they lost way way more than 200K, The losses will be seen for 30 years as alums simply won't care about BG basketball.
How much is a ticket to each game? 14 dollars or so? 15 games or so. Then you have parking, concessions, clothing and team gear and donations.

[Flipper]

I believe were trapped by circumstances. You had the AD switch that rendered making a change nearly impossible and you had the financial cost of buying out a high profile HC dring a time when we're reducing faculty positions. There was virtually no other choice but to let the season play out and hope for the best.

The past season sucked, but it's over and done with. There's nothing to be gained by rehashing the past. I'm far more interested in looking at the future.

[hammb]

I believe were trapped by circumstances. You had the AD switch that rendered making a change nearly impossible and you had the financial cost of buying out a high profile HC dring a time when we're reducing faculty positions. There was virtually no other choice but to let the season play out and hope for the best.

The past season sucked, but it's over and done with. There's nothing to be gained by rehashing the past. I'm far more interested in looking at the future.

This is where I'm at as well. I'm excited to move forward.

I don't believe you can possibly quantify the losses that throwing years and seasons away cost you...not nearly enough to definitively say that keeping Orr was a net loss or gain long term. There are just far too many variables, and the effects can be too long lasting.

I still 100% believe that if you cannot afford to buy out a coach who is not winning then you should consider dropping the sport. The value of sport to the university is through marketing, and if you are not competitive you are most certainly NOT seeing the return on your investment. I think the Athletic Department needs to be willing/able to make the tough financial decisions to keep us competitive regardless of the situation at the University/Faculty level.

Regardless, last year sucked, it's over, and I can fully understand why moving on last year wasn't really feasible with the AD change. Let's hope we can find a good coach this year.

[Globetrotter]

Marshall just bought out there coach for 2 years and are paying 600K

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... om-herrion" target="_blank

[BGWriter]

You HAVE to run the academic and athletic departments separately and not link them together when making decisions.

While the BG administration apparently decided to retain Orr because of what was going on with the faculty cuts, I am willing to bet this had more to do with PERCEPTION than actual dollars. The folks at the top didn't want the additional grief from the faculty union about buying out a coaching contract at a time when faculty were being let go.

It's a ridiculous way to do business, but I'm sure that's probably how things went down.

The fact is this: the decision to trim faculty and staff has to be made based on the reality of what is happening with students coming to BG. Why are they coming? What are they choosing to study? What areas need to be strengthened, and which are not as relevant to keeping the faculty both relevant to what today's students want and what the university can afford?

All of those things should be the primary considerations that go into decisions on whether you keep faculty in certain areas and how much you pay them. In other words, the university is making an investment in those areas of study that they expect to get a strong return in the way of tuition dollars. I know there are faculty in some areas of study that believe you have to keep their fields, even if few are studying them, because they are a part of a broad-based education, but if times are tough, then sometimes tough decisions have to be made.

At the same time, you need to separate what's happening in the athletic programs to understand that money paid to coaches is an investment. If the coach is successful, you will get a return on that investment that more than covers the costs in the way of dollars from gate receipts, parking, concessions, school-related attire, TV revenues (if the program is stronger, it will be more in demand) and tournament/bowl appearances. The final return (which is harder to gauge in dollars...is exposure to potential students.)

When a coach is failing over a long period of time as Orr was, continuing to extend him is like throwing all that money down the toilet. You are not getting anywhere close to even the minimum return on your investment.

All those empty seats at the Stroh are lost income, but not just from gate receipts; from the$5-$20 that person didn't spend on refreshments, the $5 they may have spent on parking; and the $25 they might have paid for a new sweatshirt for their child because they happened to see it in a gift shop at halftime. Multiply that person's experience by several thousand, and you are looking at some real dollars (as they say).

If BG's program continues to founder, it's less likely to be selected by the television folks to be seen, which means less exposure for the university overall. Where if the school is doing well, people see the school and might become fans who buy gear -- or young people looking at schools might find themselves intrigued with the university and start researching it as a possibility of where to attend college after high school.

You may not think sporting events play any role in attracting students to a school, but you'd be very wrong. When I was deciding where to attend college, I scheduled my visits to several of my choices to coincide with football games on those days. It allowed me and my parents an opportunity to walk around, see the campus and interact with students and others, and get a feel for what it was like. We also got had a chance to talk with people around us at the game, including students, and ask questions about the university.

BG was easily the most friendly of the campuses we visited, and the students went out of their way to show us around and answer questions that day. In the stadium, they were just as friendly when talking about their team or the band, or the classes they were taking.

So out of Miami, OU, Kent and BG, it was an easy decision for me. Since all were an academic fit about equally, it really came down to which one I liked the best -- and it was by attending a sporting event that helped seal the deal.

[Flipper]

When you're dealing with programs with the size and scope of UM or OSU on campuses the size of OSU and UM, I would agree that you can pretend the two exist in vacuums. At a school like BGSU...smaller in virtually every way...you cannot pretend that decisions can be made that way. Frankly...I think that's the way it should be.