Bill Frack money hard at work

[Flipper]

Regionally...there is an insane level of interest in Big 10 football, esp at OSU and UM. The basketball programs don't have nearly the pull. I think it would be far easier to build fan/student loyalty through hoops than football. Also..the talent pool for hoops is becoming literally global in scope. You can find kids just about anywhere in the world. Football...not so much.

Would love to see the MAC set caps on coaches salaries, number of staff etc...to control costs. We tripled Dino Babers salary so he could bolt out the door for the $$$. Are you telling me the next coach wouldn't take 250k for a shot at millions?

[hammb]

Regionally...there is an insane level of interest in Big 10 football, esp at OSU and UM. The basketball programs don't have nearly the pull. I think it would be far easier to build fan/student loyalty through hoops than football. Also..the talent pool for hoops is becoming literally global in scope. You can find kids just about anywhere in the world. Football...not so much.

Would love to see the MAC set caps on coaches salaries, number of staff etc...to control costs. We tripled Dino Babers salary so he could bolt out the door for the $$$. Are you telling me the next coach wouldn't take 250k for a shot at millions?

Exactly, Flip, exactly.

MAC football will never hold a candle to the interest drawn to TVs every Saturday to watch UM or OSU play...even on days they're beating Illinois by 40. I was raised in Ohio, less than 15 miles from BG. We'd occasionally attend a BG game, but it was considered sacrilege to not glue our eyes to the TV to live and die by that university in Columbus. Fall weddings, family reunions, fish fries...doesn't matter. If it happens on a Saturday there are radios (and now cellphones) being tuned in to catch that team in Columbus. And these are family members that have been season ticket holders to BG basketball for 50+ years. When it comes to football the MAC is second rate. Not just on the field, but in the eyes of our own prospective fanbase; in the eyes of our own student body.

Basketball that is not the case. Most of these same people who worship OSU/UM football couldn't care less about their basketball programs. Maybe they'll start watching in a year where they're ranked highly, or if they make it to the sweet 16, but they're not gluing themselves to the TV to catch midweek OSU basketball games. That's just reality.

The MAC used to be a perennially great mid-major hoops league. Frequently we were a small notch below the top leagues, we put players into the NBA every year. We were usually a 1 or 2 bid league, but our 1 or 2 bids went to a team that others didn't want to see in the first round of the dance. That has all changed over the last 20 years for the worse. Maybe I'm just grinding an axe to blame the insane rise in football expenditures for that, but there seems to be something to it. While we've continued to throw way too much money at football, hurting our basketball programs, other conferences that don't have football have overtaken the MAC in hoops. Now we are still a 2nd rate football conference that has fallen way down the pecking order in hoops as well. Growing up with an attachment to the basketball program, it's made it tough to keep buying my season tickets and watching the program flounder (and even worse, the entire conference).

[pdt1081]

Growing up with an attachment to the basketball program, it's made it tough to keep buying my season tickets and watching the program flounder (and even worse, the entire conference).

You are describing hockey fans 10 years ago.

[hammb]

Growing up with an attachment to the basketball program, it's made it tough to keep buying my season tickets and watching the program flounder (and even worse, the entire conference).

You are describing hockey fans 10 years ago.

Thankfully, they have returned to relevance. I hope MAC hoops can follow suit.

[Falconwriter]

I haven't parsed through each post on this topic, but I agree that ANY money donated to a university for a specific purpose should ONLY be used for that purpose. What gives a university any right to circumvent a donor's desires? As someone who has created an athletic scholarship at BG, I had the chance to put all kinds of caveats on who gets the money...but I wouldn't do it. Because so long as the person is academically eligible and on that team, let the coaches and/or AD decide who should benefit from the scholarship. But using that money for anything but the sport it was intended -- well, that's a huge no-no.

When I first read about Bill Frack's gift years ago, I was excited by the thought that the money would be in a separate account and used ONLY for men's basketball. Like many here, I saw it as a way for the program to be elevated (as Frack obviously wanted) and to put the humiliation of going more than half a century without getting to an NCAA tournament behind us.

If BG is using that money for other athletic department events -- in any way -- they should be sued and made to face the consequences. It's wrong. I don't give a crap if the entire department is in the red...you use donated money that has a specific intended purpose only for that purpose. I would think (and hope) that such a bequest would be in writing and legally binding. If it is, then legal steps can be taken to make sure it is used properly.

[footballguy51]

I haven't parsed through each post on this topic, but I agree that ANY money donated to a university for a specific purpose should ONLY be used for that purpose. What gives a university any right to circumvent a donor's desires? As someone who has created an athletic scholarship at BG, I had the chance to put all kinds of caveats on who gets the money...but I wouldn't do it. Because so long as the person is academically eligible and on that team, let the coaches and/or AD decide who should benefit from the scholarship. But using that money for anything but the sport it was intended -- well, that's a huge no-no.

When I first read about Bill Frack's gift years ago, I was excited by the thought that the money would be in a separate account and used ONLY for men's basketball. Like many here, I saw it as a way for the program to be elevated (as Frack obviously wanted) and to put the humiliation of going more than half a century without getting to an NCAA tournament behind us.

If BG is using that money for other athletic department events -- in any way -- they should be sued and made to face the consequences. It's wrong. I don't give a crap if the entire department is in the red...you use donated money that has a specific intended purpose only for that purpose. I would think (and hope) that such a bequest would be in writing and legally binding. If it is, then legal steps can be taken to make sure it is used properly.

Nobody has said that the donated money was being used on other sports. The insinuation (not proven as far as I can tell) is that we are taking money out of the general budget for basketball and giving it to football. So, for example let's say that the donation was $100,000 each year (we know it isn't). Then, the claim is that rather than the basketball budget being $100,000 richer, it is staying the same and $100,000 is being "freed up" for other expenses.

In essence, this is not a violation. If your mortgage payment was $500 and I came to you and said, "I'd like to give you $500 a month to pay your mortgage," would you then pay your mortgage only with my $500 or would you pay $1000 a month? Or, if I came to you and said, "Here's $1000 each year for the foreseeable future to put towards expenses and improvements on your home," is it wrong of you to budget $1000 of your money towards other things you want to spend it on rather than having a home expenses budget that is now $1000 richer? In the spirit of things, it's probably not desired, but it isn't wrong.

To be clear, I have no idea what is going on with the budget. I don't know the stipulations on the donation made by the late Mr. Frack. In fact, unless you were at the meetings while the donation was being planned, or unless you've looked at the estate planning documents yourself, you probably don't know what is going on and all you are doing is speaking of rumors.

Trust me, if a donation is being misused, that is a legal issue. Auditors can come after you for stuff like that. However, since we all know the budget situation at BGSU, my assumption would be that we aren't willing to risk paying for and fighting through a lawsuit by misusing donor funds.

[zete]

The reason that Findlay is the Frack game is because that's where he is from. It's actually a nice, fitting tribute to him.

You want a nice, fitting tribute? Bring in Gonzaga. Bring in a Ohio State. Hell, bring in Cleveland State!! Use the money as it was intended to use. Not to continue to bring in piss poor talent to the STROH and employ a coach who can't compete on the floor or even fill his god da** roster!!!!

Instead we bring in freaking Findlay and backdoor the rest of the money to other programs because our 2 main revenue sports DONT BRING IN REVENUE BECAUSE THEIR TERRIBLE!!!!

Wow. I need to calm down..................................

I think Findlay beat us last year in a pre season game at Findlay.

[Falconwriter]

Thanks, Peregrine. Appreciate the clarification...and you are probably right. I still think that's a bad way to honor Mr. Frack's wishes, and I would hope it isn't happening that way.

Honestly, there's no reason they could not get a team like Ohio State or Cincinnati (or Dayton) to come in and have the Bill Frack game be an all-Ohio affair. In the past, I know Coach Matta at OSU was reticent to play in-state rivals...but that's not the case with Holtmann. And I realize we're talking an away game for a bigger program, but given what it's about, you might be able to convince them to come in. The question is: has anybody even tried?

[BGFalconfromCincy]

Honestly, there's no reason they could not get a team like Ohio State or Cincinnati (or Dayton) to come in and have the Bill Frack game be an all-Ohio affair. In the past, I know Coach Matta at OSU was reticent to play in-state rivals...but that's not the case with Holtmann. And I realize we're talking an away game for a bigger program, but given what it's about, you might be able to convince them to come in. The question is: has anybody even tried?

Well, since BG hosted one of the teams you mentioned (Cincinnati) in what I believe was the second Bill Frack Challenge, to answer your question yes someone tried once. Not sure if they have continued trying though

[hammb]

Thanks, Peregrine. Appreciate the clarification...and you are probably right. I still think that's a bad way to honor Mr. Frack's wishes, and I would hope it isn't happening that way.

Honestly, there's no reason they could not get a team like Ohio State or Cincinnati (or Dayton) to come in and have the Bill Frack game be an all-Ohio affair. In the past, I know Coach Matta at OSU was reticent to play in-state rivals...but that's not the case with Holtmann. And I realize we're talking an away game for a bigger program, but given what it's about, you might be able to convince them to come in. The question is: has anybody even tried?

What footballguy51 laid out is exactly my implication. And I will fully admit that I'm operating purely in the world of speculation. The data should all be available through the FIA if you wanted, but I did some quick searches and I couldn't find any real information breaking down BG's athletic budget by sport, etc.

What we do know however, from Mr. Frack's own words, is that his donation was not simply earmarked for basketball (although I suspect that's all it has for it in a legally binding sense). Mr. Frack clearly stated that he wanted his money to go towards making BG basketball the next Gonzaga or Butler. To take footballguy's analogy he didn't say, "Here's $500 for your mortgage" he said, "Here's $500 so you can pay your mortgage off quicker." I disagree VEHEMENTLY with footballguy's assertion that "it isn't wrong." Unless we're talking purely from the legal sense, it's wrong. When a benefactor gives you a huge sum under the express desire of making things better, I expect that money to be used to make things better.

But alas, we are working solely on conjecture, so perhaps I'm being too harsh. So let's look at the facts we do know.

Fact: Mr. Frack's endowment was for $20million and was expected to provide $675k annually for the program in perpetuity.
Fact: The market over the past few years has been stable enough to assume that return has been realized.
Fact: Mr. Frack wrote another, separate check for $700k to allow BGSU to afford to lure a hot coaching candidate in Chris Jans, paying him ~$325k/year, about double what Orr made.
Fact: Mr. Frack passed away in March of 2014, so that is when the endowment payments should have started
Fact: Jans was fired, with cause (no buyout) in April 2014.
Fact: Huger was basically given the Jans contract of 6 years, $325/yr

So, I ask, "What is the athletic department doing with $675k/yr they are receiving from that endowment? A good chunk of coach Huger's salary was already subsidized by a separate Mr. Frack donation (never minding the fact we gave that to NOT a hot coaching candidate, who should have been landed much cheaper). The cost of attendance at BG is what, $20k? $25k? That puts our scholarships (Which we have yet to ACTUALLY use all 13 once in Huger's tenure) cost at $260k-325k.

That money was supposed to be going to a higher level of coaching and a higher level of OOC play. Be it travel expenses to go on the road and play good teams, or buyins to bring better opponents into the Stroh. Look at our schedules the last several years, and this year...we sure as hell aren't using that money for that.


This program has a shiny new arena. I've been to many MAC arenas. At the very least the Stroh is in the upper echelon, if not the best. Can't say I've been in the lockerroom/training facilities, but I would be surprised if they weren't some of the best in the conference.

This program got a check to cover doubling our coach's salary, and Kingston pissed it away on a not overly sought after candidate.

This program has an endowment that every other basketball program in the conference would kill for.

And yet we see almost no return on that money. Yeah, we have no real hard evidence they've taken other money from hoops to give to football, but we sure as hell aren't seeing what Mr. Frack intended us to see with that money. Not that any of us should really be surprised.

[BillyLP]

Fact: Mr. Frack's endowment was for $20million and was expected to provide $675k annually for the program in perpetuity.
Fact: The market over the past few years has been stable enough to assume that return has been realized.

Just as an FYI, as a person who works in higher ed fundraising, I can tell you most schools are are getting returns in the 4-5% range.

[hammb]

Fact: Mr. Frack's endowment was for $20million and was expected to provide $675k annually for the program in perpetuity.
Fact: The market over the past few years has been stable enough to assume that return has been realized.

Just as an FYI, as a person who works in higher ed fundraising, I can tell you most schools are are getting returns in the 4-5% range.

The $675k number was what was published at the time of the endowment. I'm not sure how exactly it's invested, I got the impression it was more of a safe static return. But 4-5% would actually be $800k-1million on the $20million.

Either way, I"d be VERY curious to hear where exactly that money is being spent SOLELY on basketball. Sure seems like it would have almost certainly gone to day to day basketball operations, and NOT to elevate the program as Mr. Frack intended.