We don't need a new arena

Metz · Post by **Metz** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:09 am

TG1996 wrote: Nice new av, btw.

Animal eating the rim...it's golden!

Rightupinthere · Post by **Rightupinthere** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:48 am

Finally in 04 wrote:The weekend games are not as bad as the week night games but that is a prime parking lot for fac/staff until 7pm and then students, who are paying quite a bit of money to go here. That is THE parking lot for the library. Closing a lot of that importance at 5pm on the night of a game, having it still half full of fac/staff cars, and having others needing to use the library causes quite a mess.

I understand the parking. But here is where we get into a dichotomy per se. Do we cater to the off campus crowd and have the arena out by the Doyt? Or do we cater to more the on campus crowd and keep the arena on campus. Part of the expansion of the Severance Hall was a huge underground addition to the parking garage. Tech83 is going to have a fit, but can we not have a low profile/below ground parking garage added to the side of Anderson? If not, why not? Granted, there are safety issues (cameras and surveylances) and issues that parking garages are just plain ugly unless designed properly.

Finallyin04 wrote:As far as expansion is concerned, that is limited as well. The new admissions/visitors center that we so badly need is planned for the northwest corner of the area to the north of Anderson Arena. So, any northward expansion would have to be planned with that in mind.

I've always understood that, but I don't believe that's going to take up the entire space, is it?

Finallyin04 wrote:I also think all that would need to be done would make Anderson Arena look more crowded and cramped with the amount of space we would have to work with. Lets look outside the relm of athletics for a minute. This is where a new arena looks so attractive to me. We could build a space perfect for commencement. One where students are not limited to just 6 of their familiy members able to be present in the arena itself. Maybe even a decrease in the number of ceremonies itself. Concerts could be held with bigger names booked. Full arenas for concerts could bring in a lot of money for the department. And not just concerts, but things like monster truck rallies and all of that as well. And parking for all of these events would be convenient for those of you coming from outside of BGSU. All of this makes a new arena, im my mind, a must have.

I don't know if I'm willing to sacrifice the awesome home court advantage for a monster truck rally. Sorry for the flippant retort. I understand from where you are coming and it makes good business sense. But i would be absolutely ill going to a basketball or hockey game and being able hear crickets chirp.
EVERY instance where schools have a brand new arena, they experience an slide in "enthusiastic feel." I don't want to be one of those schools. If we do have this big, fancy arena, then what become of Anderson? Do we demolish it? Or do we keep it and demo Eppler? How many basketball courts do we need on campus (Eppler, Fieldhouse, Anderson, mega-entertaining-complex-gym-convention center-nudie bar-mall)?

I think we should update what we have. I used to think we needed a new arena until the concert yesterday when the "possiblities" started coming to my mind.

I think I'm sick. There I was, listening to one of the finest orchestras in the world and I'm thinking about BG. Sheesh.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:16 am

In a larger sense, moving the arena to the "athletic complex" east of Mercer might serve the on campus community better. A larger AA will hopefully mean larger crowds. This could prove to be fairly disruptive to students trying to get to class or the library (or libary if you go to UT).

Tech83 · Post by **Tech83** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:06 am

Rightupinthere wrote: Tech83 is going to have a fit, but can we not have a low profile/below ground parking garage added to the side of Anderson? If not, why not? Granted, there are safety issues (cameras and surveylances) and issues that parking garages are just plain ugly unless designed properly..

I think Rightupinthere may have a good point here. To me the worst thing that happended to Miami was moving the Football stadium away from campus. Keeping AA near the center of campus is a good idea. It supports the whole pedestrian theory of campus design and planning.

Now whether a parking garage would work still depends on getting those facilty/staff folks out of that lot by 5 PM for the weekday game/concert. You could need to provide a separate controlled access area for fac/staff and then know you have a set number of open parking spaces on game day - but how days are we talking about???? 5- 10 days?

Here are some numbers I worked up several years ago for a 3 story parking garage with one level below grade - it held 275 cars - cost was $6.6 Million (Prevailing Wages) or $24,000 per parking space. Assume a building life of 50 years.

Are you basketball fans really ready to spend $6.6 million dollars for a few nights of Bball at Anderson so you don't have to walk a few blocks to the game or would you prefer to spend $6.6 million on expanding Anderson into a state of the art building?

Also - There is plenty of parking around campus in the distance lots - how about a shuttle bus and free parking.

Now to the whole idea of a new Arena. First - if you want to construct a major facility you need to talk about renvue as to make it self-supporting. The biggest comptetiion is going to be any facility in Toledo. Conventions, Circus, Monster Truck rally, concerts, and so on. You need a marketing study.

I hate to say this in fear of the flames, but BG in not a destination point, except for us Falcon fans and I think most marketing studies would show a large facility in a largely rural community (8,000-10,000 seat) to be a loser.

Question 2 - Do you make it a combination facility - Bball and hockey. (Hockey needs two sheets of ice to be practical in today's ecomony). You can sell ice time from 5:00 AM to past Mid-night. But costs go up. Also the cost of facility management - removing dasher boards, covering ice for Bball and so on. One of my clients who has a 4,500 seat arena and hosts both high school hockey and bball tournaments. They say its a 5 man job and 13 hour process. And things get damaged in the rearrange.

Sorry if any of this is too "real world" but I guess that is my job. Wright State has the Nutter Center and is home to their Bball team, minor league hockey, concerts and so on. It is successful (to a point) due to its close location to the highway system and Dayton is large enough to support it. Although WSU and the Bombers draw crowds of about 2,000-3,000 typically. And then there are 5,000 empty seats. Sure Aerosmith sells out the place, but campus events are typically a bust/money loser.

BGDrew · Post by **BGDrew** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:07 am

I thought I read around here that AA's North wall was "easily removable" to allow for more seating?

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am

Rightupinthere wrote:
Finally in 04 wrote:The weekend games are not as bad as the week night games but that is a prime parking lot for fac/staff until 7pm and then students, who are paying quite a bit of money to go here. That is THE parking lot for the library. Closing a lot of that importance at 5pm on the night of a game, having it still half full of fac/staff cars, and having others needing to use the library causes quite a mess.
I understand the parking. But here is where we get into a dichotomy per se. Do we cater to the off campus crowd and have the arena out by the Doyt? Or do we cater to more the on campus crowd and keep the arena on campus. Part of the expansion of the Severance Hall was a huge underground addition to the parking garage. Tech83 is going to have a fit, but can we not have a low profile/below ground parking garage added to the side of Anderson? If not, why not? Granted, there are safety issues (cameras and surveylances) and issues that parking garages are just plain ugly unless designed properly.

One can't go very far into the ground around Bowling Green without hitting bedrock. An underground garage would be an enormous engineering task.

GoFalcons4 · Post by **GoFalcons4** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:18 am

We dont need a new arena because visiting fans complain about it because they cant win here, ie Criami, Oh. Anderson Arena is a great place to watch a basketball game. Small improvement such as new seats, maybe an ATM so I can get some cash for the concessions would be nice, but AA is great. Just check the Miami board for reasons why we dont need a new arena.

Tech83 · Post by **Tech83** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:24 am

Schadenfreude wrote:One can't go very far into the ground around Bowling Green without hitting bedrock. An underground garage would be an enormous engineering task.

One word - Dynamite!!

Yeah - blowing stuff up is COOL

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:14 am

Tech83 wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:One can't go very far into the ground around Bowling Green without hitting bedrock. An underground garage would be an enormous engineering task.
One word - Dynamite!!

Yeah - blowing stuff up is COOL

C4! Way cooler than Dynamite!

Dayons_Den · Post by **Dayons_Den** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:33 am

Don't forget that any major renovations, which is what we are talking about with Memorial Hall/Anderson Arena, would have to be ADA compliant.

Its not as easy as just "knock out the wall, add some seating and replaces the seatbacks." If you start adding up the numbers you start to get to a figure that would be logical to put towards a brand new building to fit all needs instaed of renovating to fit most needs.

Tech83 · Post by **Tech83** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:14 am

ADA - Oh boy. Now you have to go and complicate things. But DD is correct. Seating and sight lines will be a big issue. You have to provide equal access to the different levels of seating (Reserved, bench reserved, and general admission) plus space for companion seating.

Its been years since I have been in Anderson to even try to think of the ADA issues. But they would have to be HUGE.

BUT - The university is already liable for Anderson to be accessible. They fall under Title III of the Act and they have to provide accomodation in existing buildings or relocate an event to an accessible space upon the request of an individual with a qualified disablity. Toilet Rooms also need to be accessible, but they are #3 out of 4 on the priority list that the Department of Justice (DOJ) has identified as barriers that need to be removed.

The Priority List is

1. Parking, path of travel and entrance into a facility.
2. The actual area within a building that houses a service, event or activity by the Public Entity (BG is a public entity). This would include any concession areas.
3. Toilet Rooms
4. Other (Drinking fountains, display cases, vending machines, telephones and so on)

Someone who is smart and understands the law, could file a complaint to DOJ that they want to be able to sit in the reserved seating, which lets assume is not accessible. The Univeristy would either have to make the structural changes or relocate the ball game to an accessible space upon this persons request. Think about having to hold a game at the Field House or the Rec Center.

Remember that the ADA is a civil right bill not a construction/design bill. Therefore the penalties are stiff.

This is no joke - any complaint against the University could make them lose ALL federal funding and grants. That is how the law is written.

Maybe this would be a good reason to raze Anderson and build new. The Ice Arena is not necessarily accessible either. Again just the seating issues. They have resolved the concession issues with the tables around the arena.

Class of 61 · Post by **Class of 61** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:24 am

Since this topic has been raised numerous times before, the only thing that I'll add....again...is that we were told...(Yes, I'm "old") WHEN IT WAS BUILT that the entire purpose of the N.Wall being blocked in was to allow for future expansion, if needed.... Do we need a NEW facility? It would probably be nice, especially the fact that newer arenas are a bit more consumer friendly in the way they're set up (the Gund excepted, of course)....but BG drew a shade UNDER 4000 for this Miami game, a HUGE game for us and we didn't sell the place out...so adding 1000-1500 extra seats or whatever to the N.Side would seem to make sense and allow for the possible future of BG..... If any of you have been to the MAC Ctr. at KSU, they've got "elite' boxes at one end of the floor, completely glass enclosed, theatre type seats etc. Not sure it's the "real" way to experience a bball game, but it's certainly a good selling point when one considers expansion as opposed to new construction.

TG1996 · Post by **TG1996** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:34 am

Class of 61 wrote: If any of you have been to the MAC Ctr. at KSU, they've got "elite' boxes at one end of the floor, completely glass enclosed, theatre type seats etc. Not sure it's the "real" way to experience a bball game, but it's certainly a good selling point when one considers expansion as opposed to new construction.

That's why the "real" fans can find seats inside the arena, and let sponsors or whoever sit in the boxes. I'm on board with your thinking, and if you offer up luxury boxes for sponsors, certainly you'll pick up more sponsorship. What kind of a selling point is it to offer sponsors season tickets, but they have to sit on old wooden benches? Up the package offers to sponsors, but give them a private box. Heck, even make the seats in the end student seats and charge $2 to get in there. It's a small cost, even for a college kid, and the ones that wouldn't mind paying it are the ones that want to be there in the first place.

Of course, that's getting a LONG way down the road, but its all about ideas, right?

Lord_Byron · Post by **Lord_Byron** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:34 pm

As far as parking goes, has anyone been to the Carrier Dome? There are virtually zero lots around the building, and it doesn't seem to hurt Syracuse's attendance.

Parking takes care of itself. The lot next to AA is sufficient for preferred and disabled parking. The rest can park on city streets, the ice arena, etc.

We need AA expanded and modernized, nothing more, nothing less.

Lose the benches, add some luxury suites.

Metz · Post by **Metz** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:36 pm

Lord_Byron wrote:As far as parking goes, has anyone been to the Carrier Dome? There are virtually zero lots around the building, and it doesn't seem to hurt Syracuse's attendance.

That's Syracuse, this is BG. If we started going to the Sweet 16 year after year, our attendance wouldn't be an issue either! The practices they let fans into sound like our games. Players there are idolized by everyone on campus. It's just a whole different situation...