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Post by hammb »

UK Peregrine wrote:
hammb wrote:
Warthog wrote:Meyer just won the freakin' National Championship and you still can't concede that he is a great coach?
And follows it up with the best recruiting class in the land.

The only thing Gregg Brandon has ever been able to do is win with Urban's boys.

The fact is Urban Meyer is a fantastic coach, and his recruits are as good as you could ever hope to sign at the schools he's been at. It's laughable to say you're withholding judgment on him, but whatever. Some people still think Gregg Brandon & Scott Paluch are good coaches...too bad those people seem to be in positions of power...
Larry Coker started out about the same way at Miami winning a National Championship and being named National Coach of the Year his first two years, while landing top recruit after top recruit. Yet six years after his astounding success, he is out of a job. I don't see anything wrong with saying Meyer is perhaps the best at the quick turnaround of programs, but it is still remains to be seen whether he can sustain a program for any length of time.
Larry Coker is a coach on the same level as Gregg Brandon, in my mind: TERRIBLE.

I don't need to see long term success/failure to know. I can watch the teams and know exactly which ones are well coached and which ones are not.

Urban has proven 3 times that he can take 3 different batches of kids and mold them into winners. Sure they weren't his recruits, but I find it hard to believe that his recruits would be any less capable of becoming winners than what was there when he showed up.
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Post by UK Peregrine »

hammb wrote:
UK Peregrine wrote: Larry Coker started out about the same way at Miami winning a National Championship and being named National Coach of the Year his first two years, while landing top recruit after top recruit. Yet six years after his astounding success, he is out of a job. I don't see anything wrong with saying Meyer is perhaps the best at the quick turnaround of programs, but it is still remains to be seen whether he can sustain a program for any length of time.
Larry Coker is a coach on the same level as Gregg Brandon, in my mind: TERRIBLE.

I don't need to see long term success/failure to know. I can watch the teams and know exactly which ones are well coached and which ones are not.

Urban has proven 3 times that he can take 3 different batches of kids and mold them into winners. Sure they weren't his recruits, but I find it hard to believe that his recruits would be any less capable of becoming winners than what was there when he showed up.
So in your mind Brandon is on the same level as a man that won a national championship and was two-time national coach of the year. That's cool. :wink:

The only reason you make such a connection is that Brandon, unlike Urban, has stayed at a program for longer than two years. So the only reason to make the connection to Coker is that Brandon has actually been in a position for his program to decline like Coker. Whereas Urban has left each time before such a decline was even possible. Sure he's demonstrated he can win, no argument there. The only thing I think Transfer and myself are saying is that until this upcoming season, Urban has not stayed longer than two years to even have a chance at a decline. he has always jumped ship for bigger pay and career aspirations. Urban turns programs into winners, but can he sustain those winners? That's the question nobody has the answer for yet.
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Post by transfer2BGSU »

UK Peregrine wrote:Urban has not stayed longer than two years to even have a chance at a decline. he has always jumped ship for bigger pay and career aspirations. Urban turns programs into winners, but can he sustain those winners? That's the question nobody has the answer for yet.
+1

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Post by hammb »

UK Peregrine wrote: So in your mind Brandon is on the same level as a man that won a national championship and was two-time national coach of the year. That's cool. :wink:
Yes, anyone that voted for Coker to win coach of the year should lose their ballots. He inherited insane talent and let them win a title. They were poorly coached since the second he got there. No way in hell that '01 team loses to OSU if they have a competent coach at the helm. His teams won despite him, much like Brandon's did when he first was hired. I think those two coaching careers mirror one another quite well. Both are lousy coaches and both benefitted greatly from the groundwork laid by their predecessors.
The only reason you make such a connection is that Brandon, unlike Urban, has stayed at a program for longer than two years. So the only reason to make the connection to Coker is that Brandon has actually been in a position for his program to decline like Coker. Whereas Urban has left each time before such a decline was even possible. Sure he's demonstrated he can win, no argument there. The only thing I think Transfer and myself are saying is that until this upcoming season, Urban has not stayed longer than two years to even have a chance at a decline. he has always jumped ship for bigger pay and career aspirations. Urban turns programs into winners, but can he sustain those winners? That's the question nobody has the answer for yet.
No you're wrong. If the archives still existed, you could go back to 2003 where I realized Brandon was a bad coach. He stayed here long enough to ruin the program, but I was hoping like hell he'd get another job after the '04 season.

Urban has not yet been in a position where his program could decline, but I'm quite confident in watching his coaching abilities that it will not. Good coaches are generally good coaches. I'd be shocked if he failed to sustain his success. But I guess the proof will be in the pudding this season, eh? By year 3 a god deal of his players should be his own recruits, shouldn't they?
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Post by h2oville rocket »

hammb wrote:By year 3 a god deal of his players should be his own recruits, shouldn't they?
If you got one of these going on you SHOULD be a good coach.
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Post by Flipper »

Gregg Brandon hasn't ruined the program...That kind of talk is asinine. We've had one really bad year and one disappointing year. That's hardly an indication we're in ruins. Off the field...things are getting done with Brandon at the helm that weren't even imagineable before. The Sebo Center, new turf, new uniforms, more assistants, I think they're paid better than they were, we've expanded recruiting base..etc..etc.... he could have handled a couple of things better (kickers last year for example) but I think the foundation is in place for improvement htis year.

Now..getting back to basketball. I don't want Orr...I might want Heath. I'd prefer Oppenheimer or Suzy Merchant
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Post by BGorDeath »

I'm still pulling for my mom to get the job. She watches a lot of college ball, so she is overly qualified.
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Post by Warthog »

Flipper wrote:Gregg Brandon hasn't ruined the program...That kind of talk is asinine. We've had one really bad year and one disappointing year.
Ruined is a strong word. I would say ruining a program goes beyond wins and losses and includes NCAA violations and players commiting felonies. But I would say that the football program has definitely declined under Brandon's guidance. You cannot argue the fact that our win-loss percentage has decreased every year since he took over. That is a fact.

Are you referencing two different years, one as being really bad (2006) and one as being disappointing (2005), or one year that was both bad and disappointing? He's only been here 4 years, so to say that two have not been good does not seem to me to indicate that he is a good coach. IMO.
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Post by Flipper »

Two really good years, one "meh" year and one year of "gee this sucks". We had a missed FG and a tying TD called back..those two plays cost us two games. Turns us into a 5-2 MAC and 6-6 overall team and I'll bet we don't have half of the complaining we have now. That's ok though...we're gonna be better this year and then I can play "I told you so" :-)
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Post by hammb »

In my opinion we have underperformed our talent under Brandon every single year he's been our head coach. He's been awful at in game adjustments, poor at having his team prepared to play big games, and has done VERY little to develop players over their tenure here. If not for beating up some lousy competition his first 2 years here I don't think anyone here would be saying that he was a quality coach.

On top of that our team has gotten noticeably worse in quality of play & W/L record since he took over. Perhaps he hasn't ruined the program yet, but he likely will.

He is, quite honestly, among the worst 10-15 coaches in all of D1A, IMO. To take what we had and do with it what he has is inexcusable. We play with no heart, no intensity, no fundamentals, and piss poor gameplans. But that's okay because he's only under contract for 2 more years!
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Post by Rollo83 »

UK Peregrine wrote:
hammb wrote:
Warthog wrote:Meyer just won the freakin' National Championship and you still can't concede that he is a great coach?
And follows it up with the best recruiting class in the land.

The only thing Gregg Brandon has ever been able to do is win with Urban's boys.

The fact is Urban Meyer is a fantastic coach, and his recruits are as good as you could ever hope to sign at the schools he's been at. It's laughable to say you're withholding judgment on him, but whatever. Some people still think Gregg Brandon & Scott Paluch are good coaches...too bad those people seem to be in positions of power...
Larry Coker started out about the same way at Miami winning a National Championship and being named National Coach of the Year his first two years, while landing top recruit after top recruit. Yet six years after his astounding success, he is out of a job. I don't see anything wrong with saying Meyer is perhaps the best at the quick turnaround of programs, but it is still remains to be seen whether he can sustain a program for any length of time.
I like his chances!
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Post by Flipper »

hammb wrote:In my opinion we have underperformed our talent under Brandon every single year he's been our head coach. He's been awful at in game adjustments, poor at having his team prepared to play big games, and has done VERY little to develop players over their tenure here. If not for beating up some lousy competition his first 2 years here I don't think anyone here would be saying that he was a quality coach.

On top of that our team has gotten noticeably worse in quality of play & W/L record since he took over. Perhaps he hasn't ruined the program yet, but he likely will.

He is, quite honestly, among the worst 10-15 coaches in all of D1A, IMO. To take what we had and do with it what he has is inexcusable. We play with no heart, no intensity, no fundamentals, and piss poor gameplans. But that's okay because he's only under contract for 2 more years!

You're confused hammb, Meyer was the coach who beat up piss poor competition here. Brandon has won games against quality opponents. Even last year...we beat them OU bobkits at OU.

You must have one hell of a good cable package if you've seen enough of the other division 1A football coaches to know where Brandon fits in. Or maybe you're just engaging in your usual hyperbolic rants that don't require substantiation but sound good anywhoo :-)

Personally, my concern is how he does here vs the conference and what other coaches did here before him. He's up on the other coaches after Doyt and he gets an "needs improvement" agaist the rest of the conference based on the last two years.

Seriously...you people complain too much. Buy a fricking Polyphoinic Spree CD and lighten the f**k up 8)
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Post by hammb »

Flipper wrote:
hammb wrote:In my opinion we have underperformed our talent under Brandon every single year he's been our head coach. He's been awful at in game adjustments, poor at having his team prepared to play big games, and has done VERY little to develop players over their tenure here. If not for beating up some lousy competition his first 2 years here I don't think anyone here would be saying that he was a quality coach.

On top of that our team has gotten noticeably worse in quality of play & W/L record since he took over. Perhaps he hasn't ruined the program yet, but he likely will.

He is, quite honestly, among the worst 10-15 coaches in all of D1A, IMO. To take what we had and do with it what he has is inexcusable. We play with no heart, no intensity, no fundamentals, and piss poor gameplans. But that's okay because he's only under contract for 2 more years!
You're confused hammb, Meyer was the coach who beat up piss poor competition here. Brandon has won games against quality opponents. Even last year...we beat them OU bobkits at OU.

You must have one hell of a good cable package if you've seen enough of the other division 1A football coaches to know where Brandon fits in. Or maybe you're just engaging in your usual hyperbolic rants that don't require substantiation but sound good anywhoo :-)

Personally, my concern is how he does here vs the conference and what other coaches did here before him. He's up on the other coaches after Doyt and he gets an "needs improvement" agaist the rest of the conference based on the last two years.

Seriously...you people complain too much. Buy a fricking Polyphoinic Spree CD and lighten the f**k up 8)

I'm too busy to get involved in a well researched argument right now. But off the top of my head the only real quality wins we've had in Brandon's tenure are '03 Purdue, '03 NIU, '03 NW, '04 UT, '04 Memphis, and I suppose I can grant '06 OU since they won the MAC, but I still don't think they were a real great team.

In Urban's time I would give him '01 & '02 Mizzou, '01 UT, & '01 NW as quality wins.

What's more when Urban was winning his quality wins we were supposed to be nothing. When Brandon took over this program was to the point where you expect to destroy most of the MAC and at least compete with the top teams. He maintained that for 2 years (although most of those losses were disappointing losses that should not have happened). Now he's taken this program to a point where we hope to win against all of the conference and cannot rightfully expect to beat any of them. Hell, we're going to triple OT against freaking BUFFALO.

Using Warthogs' standards, I guess he has not ruined the program. He's kept us in good standing, our kids still go to school, and still have discipline off the field. Our recruiting has been solid, we're still bringing in good athletes. On the field, however, we have gone from the top of the conference to the bottom half in 4 years. I consider that a VERY bad thing.

Yes, I have a tendency to be a bit hyperbolic. Yes, I complain too much. But I want more from BG football than just hoping to compete every couple of years. I would MUCH rather be hunting down new coaches every 2 years than settling for mediocrity.
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Post by Flipper »

What? Mizzou was a losing team in both 2001 and 2002 (4-7 and 5-7)as was Northwestern (4-7). By that criteria WE were a quality team in 2006. I'll give you UT, but they sat ther starting QB that day. And who cares what we were "supposed" to be? Since when does expectation count for anything?
We lined up they way we lined up...Brandon won a division, Brandon won two bowls, Brandon won a MAC road game against a top conference team. Meyer did NONE of that in his two years here.

And how you or anyone can call the OSU loss disappointing is beyond me...we came within ONE fricking play of beating the defending National Champs on their field. The very idea that that is disappointing is psychotic, bizarre, strange...just nutty :-)

I think we bottomed out last year..the rot from the disrupted recrutiing of Meyer's and Brandon's first year was visited on us, most of the kids from the past class came back and we have a new set of coaches ready to bring some enthusiasm back to the program.

You naysayers are all insane...
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Post by Warthog »

hammb wrote:Using Warthogs' standards,
Do we have to stoop that low? :partyman: :drinkers: :smt116 :smt028 :smt030
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