BG vs other mid-major teams

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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Post by CrazyFan »

Flipper wrote:We didn't have that coach in place...we had an out of control drunk who flamed out. Thankfully, he didn't completely bury the program in the process.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Hahahahahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol: …….once again, as clueless and as biased as ever Flip. “Out of control” drunk? I’m sure many people could give you PLENTY of examples of out of control drunks. A guy patting a women on the ass is hardly an out of control drunk. Maybe he should have just punched a bouncer? Then, according to your logic, everything would have been fine. That’s certainly not an out of control drunk…. And Jans was really on track to completely bury the program. He only took an Orr dog s**t 12-20 team and his first year coached them to 21-12 with a 11-7 MAC record. Was really on that track to bury the program. But again, that’s your biased showing. Clueless. :roll:
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

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CrazyFan.... Anytime someone grabs a women's ass other than their significant other or without permission is out of control. What makes it even more so out of control Jan's was drunk and didn't know the woman.

How would you feel if you had a daughter and Jan's grabbed her ass. How would you feel if someone could have reported the event but failed to do so and next weekend Jan's got drunk again but this time drove himself home and hit a girl, killing her, and that girl was your daughter? Still don't think he was out of control?
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

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I cannot believe we're still discussing the Jans situation.

Bottom line: If dealing with the Jans behavior is what is required to win, then I don't want to win. I don't want my alma mater sinking to the lowest common denominator with the other programs passing a blind eye to player and coach behavior just to win. I want to win, but not that badly.

The good news is you can win in the MAC without sinking to that level. Unfortunately Jans wasn't going to do that. Hopefully Huger can be that guy, but time will tell. If not we'll move on and find a coach that can, eventually. The big key will be a willingness to move on when it is painfully obvious that the guy we have is NOT that guy, rather than wallowing with them for an additional 2-3 seasons as we have in the past.

Jans can go eff himself. I don't care how many games he won. And I'm no hypocrite, the same goes for the bullshit that went down with those football coaches last year. I wouldn't want either of them on staff any longer, and I'm pretty disappointed that they still are.
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Post by Flipper »

Good Lord...we have been over this and over this...Jans was a drunk...a public drunk with obvious issues. You cannot have a program being lead by an out of control drunk.

You can argue about the football coaches all you want...don't really care. If the best argument you can muster for keeping a drunk around is we kept a couple of football coaches who got into a fight with some bouncers around...well...that 's a s**t argument and you might just as well admit that you agree with me.
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Post by Schadenfreude »

hammb wrote:Bottom line: If dealing with the Jans behavior is what is required to win, then I don't want to win. I don't want my alma mater sinking to the lowest common denominator with the other programs passing a blind eye to player and coach behavior just to win. I want to win, but not that badly.
Well said.

Bowling Green has won a lot of football titles and a national championship in hockey, but my favorite fact is that BGSU has never been found guilty of a major NCAA infraction.

That's the way it should be.
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

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Flipper wrote:Good Lord...we have been over this and over this...Jans was a drunk...a public drunk with obvious issues. You cannot have a program being lead by an out of control drunk.

You can argue about the football coaches all you want...don't really care. If the best argument you can muster for keeping a drunk around is we kept a couple of football coaches who got into a fight with some bouncers around...well...that 's a s**t argument and you might just as well admit that you agree with me.
Well first off, I clearly don’t agree with you and usually never agree with your view points. At least it makes for good banter on the board. And was Jans a drunk? From what I gathered, probably. Did he deserve to be fired for the incident? We’ve argued that back and forth for a while. My problem comes when people try to label Jans as the big bad drunk and put the blame on him that he is/was holding the program back when in fact had the incident not occurred or was handled privately with a suspension and some warnings that BG Basketball would be a hell of a lot better today than they are. Huger’s not taking us anywhere except for perennial .500 records. You can see that already if you take off the orange and brown glasses and look at it with clear, unbiased eyes. And I get it. Were all fans. Were all supposed to be loyal to the team and their coaches and believe in them 100% and believe in “next year”. But like I’ve said before, I can watch a few games of a new coach and watch how they coach and how their players respond and know if we have something special. I saw it in Urban, Clawson and Babers. They all had a fire to them that’s just hard to explain. And they were all successful here. Jinks does not have that. Brandon did not have that.

In basketball, Dakich had that, and had the West Virginia mishap not occurred where he virtually lost the team overnight, he probably would have got us to the tourney at some point. We were damn close, except we ran into the Kent State Elite 8 team. I only caught a few years of Larranaga, but he had a fire under him also that you knew he was a hell of a coach. With Orr, I said in game 2 of his first year that Orr was going to be a terrible coach. Then I sat and watched him rot out the next 7 years. With Jans, you could tell from game 1 that something was different, in a totally positive way, with that program, and I knew Jans was a steal of a hire. And Jans will be a steal of hire in a few years when he gets another chance. And Jans will take whatever team that is to the tourney before we ever sniff the tourney. And Huger, great guy. Great story. BGSU Alum. Just doesn’t have IT though. We will parade around a couple .500 or lower seasons until his contract expires, then will start this process all over again. Just my opinion, but I’ve been right on EVERY football and basketball coach so far since the middle 90’s. For what it’s worth, I was HIGHLY against the Roos hiring also and said from Day 1 that was the lazy hire, and we all see how that turned out. Absolutely disgraceful for the program and university that she still has her job.

Granted everyone is entitled to their opinions and that’s the great part of a message board like this, it still gets to me reading posts of everyone so positive and excited about the direction of this program. I keep hearing “next year” and about the great recruiting class coming in. Well every other team in the MAC has a “next year” and a great recruiting class coming in, and most those teams are light years ahead of us right now. We get better, but they get better too. It comes down to two things; a MAC POY recruit and coaching, and we don’t have either. So placing all you faith in “next year” might be fine and dandy to you, and you can hope your a** off, but be prepared to be disappointed. Jans is gone, but he took a terrible team to 21-12, 11-7 MAC and virtually nurtured a guy into a viable NBA player. Huger is the coach and took a terrible team to 16-18, 5-13 MAC and then backed that up with a 13-19, 7-11MAC record. Enough said.
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Post by guest44 »

Huger has also had the benefit of the two worst schedules in probably program history. No BG coach has had this many out of conference home games, mostly against complete junk, to inflate the record. Frack money probably helps in this. The MAC records are much more telling than the overall record.
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

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A 45 year old married man who acts like this is out of control...how is this even disputable?

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basket ... wbo0i4lq3j" target="_blank

Did he need to kill someone or actually commit rape to convince you?
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

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Ok..... enough of Jans. He is gone!!!! Back to my original question. Do you think BG would be a better basketball program if it didn't have so many D1 sports. Paying nearly 4x as much in football salaries than if we were FCS, and paying for hockey cuts into the budget. Take the Frack money out of the equation. Look at Butler Gonzaga and Xavier. They are not D1 in football. Don't have hockey program and they are in Sweet 16.
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

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gmartin wrote:Ok..... enough of Jans. He is gone!!!! Back to my original question. Do you think BG would be a better basketball program if it didn't have so many D1 sports. Paying nearly 4x as much in football salaries than if we were FCS, and paying for hockey cuts into the budget. Take the Frack money out of the equation. Look at Butler Gonzaga and Xavier. They are not D1 in football. Don't have hockey program and they are in Sweet 16.
So you want to cut a program that has been a hair away from actually making it to the NCAAs just so basketball has more money? Sure, let's cut a program that we are actually succeeding in just to fund a program that has been floundering for years. :axe:
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

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gmartin wrote:Ok..... enough of Jans. He is gone!!!! Back to my original question. Do you think BG would be a better basketball program if it didn't have so many D1 sports. Paying nearly 4x as much in football salaries than if we were FCS, and paying for hockey cuts into the budget. Take the Frack money out of the equation. Look at Butler Gonzaga and Xavier. They are not D1 in football. Don't have hockey program and they are in Sweet 16.
As I tried to say in my original post, it depends.

If we dropped football, is the leadership more willing to move on from a poor coaching hire? Certainly it should, in theory, provide more funds to hire a better pedigree head coach, but with that comes higher buyouts if you need to fire them.

If the administration is going to sit on coaches until their contracts run out, when they're clearly not the right leader for the program, then I don't think it matters what other sports we offer. We could have afforded to buy out Dakich or Orr; neither were making a very high salary (I think Orr was under $200k in his final years, and I'm sure Dakich was well under that). It's been a willingness to invest in buying out a coach, moreso than simply not having the money, that has been the problem.

I'm not really sure if the lack of football helped Gonzaga, Butler, or Xavier become a quality hoops program. Really, I'm not convinced Xavier even belongs in this conversation since they have a pretty long history of basketball success. The BIG place where not having football comes in, to me, is to SUSTAIN the success once you start to taste it. Butler has found a way to keep Brad Stevens there for 10 seasons already, and is paying him (supposedly) around $1 million/yr. But when he was initially hired he wasn't making any more really than what we paid Jans/Huger. Few has been at Gonzaga since '01, and is making about $1.4 million/yr. I'm sure he was probably making in the $300k range when he was first given the job as well.

To me the question is not whether or not Football is preventing us from being competitive in Hoops (I don't think it has in the least). I do think, however, it could prevent us from keeping the RIGHT coach long term, as I don't think our Athletic Dept would ever be able to pony up the $1 million/yr you need to have to keep a high quality coach at a mid major.



I also think the MAC's overall commitment to football has hurt the conference in basketball far more than it has hurt at BG specifically. The conference keeps sinking money into football and has failed to schedule well in hoops. Even the successful teams (Akron, Ohio, Kent) have not been nearly as good in the last decade as what MAC hoops was on the whole in the decade(s) prior.
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Post by BGFan »

Why don't we cut basketball completely and give the Stroh center to gymnastics since they put it to better use this year than either men's or women's bouncy ball.
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Post by hammb »

BGFan wrote:
gmartin wrote:Ok..... enough of Jans. He is gone!!!! Back to my original question. Do you think BG would be a better basketball program if it didn't have so many D1 sports. Paying nearly 4x as much in football salaries than if we were FCS, and paying for hockey cuts into the budget. Take the Frack money out of the equation. Look at Butler Gonzaga and Xavier. They are not D1 in football. Don't have hockey program and they are in Sweet 16.
So you want to cut a program that has been a hair away from actually making it to the NCAAs just so basketball has more money? Sure, let's cut a program that we are actually succeeding in just to fund a program that has been floundering for years. :axe:
If it was football, I'd listen to it. Solely because football takes the GDP of a small country to actually compete on a national landscape. Cutting hockey at this university isn't worth discussion.

It's probably the closest thing we have to a self sustainable sport.

I'll always be curious where we could be in Hoops & Hockey (not just us, the MAC as a whole) if we weren't losing millions to field football, but I also don't think we'll ever find that out.
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

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BGFan wrote:Why don't we cut basketball completely and give the Stroh center to gymnastics since they put it to better use this year than either men's or women's bouncy ball.
1. Because I like it ;)


2. Because it's the one sport that has shown schools of our size/budget can not only compete on a national level, but gain MAJOR publicity for it. If the only place that athletics earn their keep is by giving national name recognition then Division 1 men's basketball is by FAR our best chance to actually accomplish that. Despite our horrific lack of success for the last half century or so (good god that's a long time...)
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Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

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Hammb, Stevens left Butler 4 years ago. He has been with the Boston Celtics now for 4 seasons. May want to update your brain. Lol
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