Globetrotter wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:17 pm
They grabbed a bunch of pieces and didn’t consider how they would fit.
Agree 100%
I’m also in this boat. I think the roster really does have a lot of guys that have a lot of talent and individual skill sets where they do certain things really well. But we just don’t seem like a team out there, basically ever. It looks more like we’re trying to play an NBA all-star game - chucking bad shots and not playing any defense.
I want so badly for this program to be successful and for this group of players to taste success. They work SO hard to represent this university well, and I don’t feel like they’re being out in a position so succeed, so it’s not really fair to them either. It’s just so hard to see it right now. The program feels stale and directionless. They need a jolt in the worst way.
Transfers will be a large part of college basketball going forward. However, Michael Huger isn't a good coach. He wasn't in 2016, he wasn't in 2019 (ridiculous contract extension from Moosbrugger & Hughes) and he is getting worse in 2022. You could give him Ohio or Toledo or the 2019 Buffalo roster and he wouldn't win the MAC. It's not difficult to see. But BGSU Athletics isn't committed to winning. Isaac Elsasser is on the team beacuse it isn't committed to winning. Jackson Watson is on the team because it isn't committed to winning. Taylor Mattos started at center because it isn't committed to winning. Chris Jans was seen publicly drinking around and with members of the BGSU Athletics staff in 2015. They didn't stop it because they weren't committed to winning. They fired him when it went public, to protect there own asses (Kingston & Hughes particularly), and because they aren't committed to winning. Moosbrugger came along and just lowered those winning standards. Rec Center Bob should be managing the Cooper Pool.
As discussed in a previous thread losing Anthony Stacey really hurt because he held guys accountable. From what I’ve heard it is a much more laid back atmosphere and not surprising you see the lack of effort in all phases, particularly defense.
How Bob Moosbrugger is still employed is beyond comprehension at this point. The guy has been absolutely terrible and done nothing to improve BG athletics. Instead he’s done the opposite.
Unfortunately most of this is not new information. We've known for the better part of 2 decades that this program wasn't committed to winning basketball. You don't let 2 coaches play out the string in their lame duck seasons if you're committed to winning. You sure as hell don't hire an alum with next to zero demand if you're committed to winning. You don't twice give coaches extensions for having even the slightest taste of success if you're truly committed to winning. Moose is a MAJOR problem here because as far as I'm concerned he's completely botched football hiring, extended Huger which is just as bad, completely effed up the baseball situation, and to top it all off hasn't even done anything to improve the ridiculously bad gameday ops at either major revenue sport. I want Huger gone so badly, but Moosebrugger is absolutely the last person I would entrust with hiring a new coach. We haven't had the balls to fire a basketball coach in my lifetime. I doubt very seriously if Moose is the guy to change that, and really until he's gone we'd just be wasting our time anyhow.
Now since this is the game thread, I am still pissed off about the end of that game. I think what pisses me off even more is that I'm nearly certain I've had this exact same rant several other times over Huger's tenure.
You had the ball.
You had 3.3 seconds.
And the BEST thing you could come up with is a baseball pass jumpball to half court? WHAT THE f**k! 3.3 seconds is an absolute eternity in basketball. How in the hell could you not come up with some play design to get the ball into one of your guards with time to dribble into a 3 point shot. Yes, you may not have gotten the shot for the specific player you'd want (Gordon, obviously). Yes, you may not have had time for any passes after the inbounds. Yes, it likely would have required a running shot without time to completely stop and set up. But it would have been a SHOT! Your chances of winning down 2 with 3.3 seconds have to be very low....but to choose the option that makes those chances go down even lower is just insane. Hell, I could make a case that the probability on that play was so badly that you would have been almost better off taking a 5 second violation so you could foul sooner and get a 2nd try at the inbounds play.
This is exactly the frustration I have with this team year in year out. Whether the issue is ONLY coaching or not (I don't think it entirely is), at the end of the day the coaching is by far the biggest issue. You shouldn't even have to draw anything up in the huddle, 3.3 seconds is not an unusual situation in a basketball game, it should have been practiced already. The only thing more frustrating about that play is that we've seen it before to the same end...
It looks more like we’re trying to play an NBA all-star game - chucking bad shots and not playing any defense.
[/quote]
YAS KING!
This is it. I hadn't thought about this at all but this is the perfect metaphor or simile or whatever for this team. I said before it was like a pickup game, but this one is better. These players are all good. But just like an all star game no one cares how they fit together, no one cares to know the plays and no one cares to play defense.
Individually each piece can play D1 basketball. And I mean that. Every scholarship player should have a scholarship. But beyond that it's just a mess. We started this year with 15 scholarships. Etim redshirt, Fields medical redshirt, Swingle walked. So they are down to a manageable 12. Managing those 12 should be relatively easy. We have shown no ability to do that at all. It's frustrating for all of us. I can't imagine being on the team and not knowing your role. I get some feeling out time but we are 22 games into the season.
hammb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:24 am
Unfortunately most of this is not new information. We've known for the better part of 2 decades that this program wasn't committed to winning basketball. You don't let 2 coaches play out the string in their lame duck seasons if you're committed to winning. You sure as hell don't hire an alum with next to zero demand if you're committed to winning. You don't twice give coaches extensions for having even the slightest taste of success if you're truly committed to winning. Moose is a MAJOR problem here because as far as I'm concerned he's completely botched football hiring, extended Huger which is just as bad, completely effed up the baseball situation, and to top it all off hasn't even done anything to improve the ridiculously bad gameday ops at either major revenue sport. I want Huger gone so badly, but Moosebrugger is absolutely the last person I would entrust with hiring a new coach. We haven't had the balls to fire a basketball coach in my lifetime. I doubt very seriously if Moose is the guy to change that, and really until he's gone we'd just be wasting our time anyhow.
Now since this is the game thread, I am still pissed off about the end of that game. I think what pisses me off even more is that I'm nearly certain I've had this exact same rant several other times over Huger's tenure.
You had the ball.
You had 3.3 seconds.
And the BEST thing you could come up with is a baseball pass jumpball to half court? WHAT THE f**k! 3.3 seconds is an absolute eternity in basketball. How in the hell could you not come up with some play design to get the ball into one of your guards with time to dribble into a 3 point shot. Yes, you may not have gotten the shot for the specific player you'd want (Gordon, obviously). Yes, you may not have had time for any passes after the inbounds. Yes, it likely would have required a running shot without time to completely stop and set up. But it would have been a SHOT! Your chances of winning down 2 with 3.3 seconds have to be very low....but to choose the option that makes those chances go down even lower is just insane. Hell, I could make a case that the probability on that play was so badly that you would have been almost better off taking a 5 second violation so you could foul sooner and get a 2nd try at the inbounds play.
This is exactly the frustration I have with this team year in year out. Whether the issue is ONLY coaching or not (I don't think it entirely is), at the end of the day the coaching is by far the biggest issue. You shouldn't even have to draw anything up in the huddle, 3.3 seconds is not an unusual situation in a basketball game, it should have been practiced already. The only thing more frustrating about that play is that we've seen it before to the same end...
Yes. Just like we have seen the end of half and games no timeouts when players think we will and Chandler Turner chucks up a contested three that isn't anywhere close to going in.
hammb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:24 am
Unfortunately most of this is not new information. We've known for the better part of 2 decades that this program wasn't committed to winning basketball. You don't let 2 coaches play out the string in their lame duck seasons if you're committed to winning. You sure as hell don't hire an alum with next to zero demand if you're committed to winning. You don't twice give coaches extensions for having even the slightest taste of success if you're truly committed to winning. Moose is a MAJOR problem here because as far as I'm concerned he's completely botched football hiring, extended Huger which is just as bad, completely effed up the baseball situation, and to top it all off hasn't even done anything to improve the ridiculously bad gameday ops at either major revenue sport. I want Huger gone so badly, but Moosebrugger is absolutely the last person I would entrust with hiring a new coach. We haven't had the balls to fire a basketball coach in my lifetime. I doubt very seriously if Moose is the guy to change that, and really until he's gone we'd just be wasting our time anyhow.
Now since this is the game thread, I am still pissed off about the end of that game. I think what pisses me off even more is that I'm nearly certain I've had this exact same rant several other times over Huger's tenure.
You had the ball.
You had 3.3 seconds.
And the BEST thing you could come up with is a baseball pass jumpball to half court? WHAT THE f**k! 3.3 seconds is an absolute eternity in basketball. How in the hell could you not come up with some play design to get the ball into one of your guards with time to dribble into a 3 point shot. Yes, you may not have gotten the shot for the specific player you'd want (Gordon, obviously). Yes, you may not have had time for any passes after the inbounds. Yes, it likely would have required a running shot without time to completely stop and set up. But it would have been a SHOT! Your chances of winning down 2 with 3.3 seconds have to be very low....but to choose the option that makes those chances go down even lower is just insane. Hell, I could make a case that the probability on that play was so badly that you would have been almost better off taking a 5 second violation so you could foul sooner and get a 2nd try at the inbounds play.
This is exactly the frustration I have with this team year in year out. Whether the issue is ONLY coaching or not (I don't think it entirely is), at the end of the day the coaching is by far the biggest issue. You shouldn't even have to draw anything up in the huddle, 3.3 seconds is not an unusual situation in a basketball game, it should have been practiced already. The only thing more frustrating about that play is that we've seen it before to the same end...
I've been told by a couple connected people to the university that Moose will not be retained when his contract is up in May. I don't have any evidence to back up those claims, but was told there's been some disappointment expressed by a few individuals who make those decisions at the university about the performance of the "revenue" generating sports under his leadership, sans the covid stuff.
Again, no concrete evidence and it could be wrong but these people have been much more right than wrong when it's come to behind the scenes matters.
hammb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:24 am
Unfortunately most of this is not new information. We've known for the better part of 2 decades that this program wasn't committed to winning basketball. You don't let 2 coaches play out the string in their lame duck seasons if you're committed to winning. You sure as hell don't hire an alum with next to zero demand if you're committed to winning. You don't twice give coaches extensions for having even the slightest taste of success if you're truly committed to winning. Moose is a MAJOR problem here because as far as I'm concerned he's completely botched football hiring, extended Huger which is just as bad, completely effed up the baseball situation, and to top it all off hasn't even done anything to improve the ridiculously bad gameday ops at either major revenue sport. I want Huger gone so badly, but Moosebrugger is absolutely the last person I would entrust with hiring a new coach. We haven't had the balls to fire a basketball coach in my lifetime. I doubt very seriously if Moose is the guy to change that, and really until he's gone we'd just be wasting our time anyhow.
Now since this is the game thread, I am still pissed off about the end of that game. I think what pisses me off even more is that I'm nearly certain I've had this exact same rant several other times over Huger's tenure.
You had the ball.
You had 3.3 seconds.
And the BEST thing you could come up with is a baseball pass jumpball to half court? WHAT THE f**k! 3.3 seconds is an absolute eternity in basketball. How in the hell could you not come up with some play design to get the ball into one of your guards with time to dribble into a 3 point shot. Yes, you may not have gotten the shot for the specific player you'd want (Gordon, obviously). Yes, you may not have had time for any passes after the inbounds. Yes, it likely would have required a running shot without time to completely stop and set up. But it would have been a SHOT! Your chances of winning down 2 with 3.3 seconds have to be very low....but to choose the option that makes those chances go down even lower is just insane. Hell, I could make a case that the probability on that play was so badly that you would have been almost better off taking a 5 second violation so you could foul sooner and get a 2nd try at the inbounds play.
This is exactly the frustration I have with this team year in year out. Whether the issue is ONLY coaching or not (I don't think it entirely is), at the end of the day the coaching is by far the biggest issue. You shouldn't even have to draw anything up in the huddle, 3.3 seconds is not an unusual situation in a basketball game, it should have been practiced already. The only thing more frustrating about that play is that we've seen it before to the same end...
I've been told by a couple connected people to the university that Moose will not be retained when his contract is up in May. I don't have any evidence to back up those claims, but was told there's been some disappointment expressed by a few individuals who make those decisions at the university about the performance of the "revenue" generating sports under his leadership, sans the covid stuff.
Again, no concrete evidence and it could be wrong but these people have been much more right than wrong when it's come to behind the scenes matters.
I did not realize his contract was up in May, but I cannot see how you would possibly extend him at this point. That's the best news regarding BG sports I've read in a long time.
The 2 biggest revenue sports here are basically jockeying between the worst in the country and mediocrity on a good day. The baseball debacle was about as bad a look as I can imagine for an AD. Short of him trying to keep his job negotiating a massive paycut I cannot see how you'd keep him around.
Hopefully we'll find somebody with some connections to coaching and fundraising ability. We are desperate for leadership willing to treat our university as a genuine D1 sports program, albeit one with a small budget. Unfortunately May is pretty late in the game for a Hoops hire, so if that's true we're almost certainly going to be saddled to at least one more Huger season (which I fully expect anyhow). That should give the new AD some time to get a feel for the program(s). Whoever they hire is almost certainly going to need to be looking for new football and basketball coaches in his first 12 months on the job, so that'll be interesting.
hammb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:24 am
Unfortunately most of this is not new information. We've known for the better part of 2 decades that this program wasn't committed to winning basketball. You don't let 2 coaches play out the string in their lame duck seasons if you're committed to winning. You sure as hell don't hire an alum with next to zero demand if you're committed to winning. You don't twice give coaches extensions for having even the slightest taste of success if you're truly committed to winning. Moose is a MAJOR problem here because as far as I'm concerned he's completely botched football hiring, extended Huger which is just as bad, completely effed up the baseball situation, and to top it all off hasn't even done anything to improve the ridiculously bad gameday ops at either major revenue sport. I want Huger gone so badly, but Moosebrugger is absolutely the last person I would entrust with hiring a new coach. We haven't had the balls to fire a basketball coach in my lifetime. I doubt very seriously if Moose is the guy to change that, and really until he's gone we'd just be wasting our time anyhow.
Now since this is the game thread, I am still pissed off about the end of that game. I think what pisses me off even more is that I'm nearly certain I've had this exact same rant several other times over Huger's tenure.
You had the ball.
You had 3.3 seconds.
And the BEST thing you could come up with is a baseball pass jumpball to half court? WHAT THE f**k! 3.3 seconds is an absolute eternity in basketball. How in the hell could you not come up with some play design to get the ball into one of your guards with time to dribble into a 3 point shot. Yes, you may not have gotten the shot for the specific player you'd want (Gordon, obviously). Yes, you may not have had time for any passes after the inbounds. Yes, it likely would have required a running shot without time to completely stop and set up. But it would have been a SHOT! Your chances of winning down 2 with 3.3 seconds have to be very low....but to choose the option that makes those chances go down even lower is just insane. Hell, I could make a case that the probability on that play was so badly that you would have been almost better off taking a 5 second violation so you could foul sooner and get a 2nd try at the inbounds play.
This is exactly the frustration I have with this team year in year out. Whether the issue is ONLY coaching or not (I don't think it entirely is), at the end of the day the coaching is by far the biggest issue. You shouldn't even have to draw anything up in the huddle, 3.3 seconds is not an unusual situation in a basketball game, it should have been practiced already. The only thing more frustrating about that play is that we've seen it before to the same end...
I've been told by a couple connected people to the university that Moose will not be retained when his contract is up in May. I don't have any evidence to back up those claims, but was told there's been some disappointment expressed by a few individuals who make those decisions at the university about the performance of the "revenue" generating sports under his leadership, sans the covid stuff.
Again, no concrete evidence and it could be wrong but these people have been much more right than wrong when it's come to behind the scenes matters.
I did not realize his contract was up in May, but I cannot see how you would possibly extend him at this point. That's the best news regarding BG sports I've read in a long time.
The 2 biggest revenue sports here are basically jockeying between the worst in the country and mediocrity on a good day. The baseball debacle was about as bad a look as I can imagine for an AD. Short of him trying to keep his job negotiating a massive paycut I cannot see how you'd keep him around.
Hopefully we'll find somebody with some connections to coaching and fundraising ability. We are desperate for leadership willing to treat our university as a genuine D1 sports program, albeit one with a small budget. Unfortunately May is pretty late in the game for a Hoops hire, so if that's true we're almost certainly going to be saddled to at least one more Huger season (which I fully expect anyhow). That should give the new AD some time to get a feel for the program(s). Whoever they hire is almost certainly going to need to be looking for new football and basketball coaches in his first 12 months on the job, so that'll be interesting.
That's the assumption is his contract is up in May. Original deal was signed in May 2016 for five years, and the belief is it was "extended" a year because of the basically lost year due to covid because the department underwent some pretty massive reductions. I can reasonably say that I trust what was told to me.
A large reset is needed. These programs are in shambles. I feel bad for the players and I feel bad for those of us who have given this department a lot of money.
As far as basketball goes I believe this coach lost this team a long time ago. I would assume we will see a mass exodus of players at the end of this season and we will be stuck with Huger for one more. I will not be renewing any donations or season tickets. I have had enough of throwing good money after bad.
Hammer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:57 pm
A large reset is needed. These programs are in shambles. I feel bad for the players and I feel bad for those of us who have given this department a lot of money.
As far as basketball goes I believe this coach lost this team a long time ago. I would assume we will see a mass exodus of players at the end of this season and we will be stuck with Huger for one more. I will not be renewing any donations or season tickets. I have had enough of throwing good money after bad.
Exodus or not it has really become sad how we cannot count on anything at all from any of the guys that will be on this roster next year. Gordon has really come on as a legit good guard in conference play. Plowden is not himself when trying to be a focal point but he is one of the few decent defenders on this roster and obviously our leading scorers and rebounder. Diggs is so up and down but he's still by far our best 3pt threat.
Those 3 guys are gone next year and what does that leave? Curtis and Fulcher who occasionally flash but then turn back into pumpkins for the next 2-3 games? Reece can do some things but even with plowden helping him in the paint still cannot stay on the floor. Young, Mills, Turner...all occasionally do something good but enough to be excited about seeing them all play 20+ mins trying to carry things next year?
This season looked ugly early and other than beating some mediocre ooc foes never really looked great. Next year looks like it could be far worse.
I struggle to see any pride in this situation from the AD on down to the players. It seems that BGSU has and only wants a token basketball program - a checked box. The administration can/should plainly see that football and men's basketball are a flailing mess. The coaches can't seem to see what's happening on the floor, what the problem is, not how to correct it. Finally, I wonder what the hell players themselves are thinking. They have to know that they don't run an offense, that other teams' teamwork and continuity is far better, and their defense and shot selection sucks.
"All posts are to be read in the voice of Lewis Black."
