i wonder why we don't draw more fans?

[footballguy51]

Xavier has a concentration in basketball and they are better year in and out than all the Ohio MAC teams.

Xavier is also a D1 program in the City of Cincinnati, a city whose love of College Basketball is second only to their love of Reds baseball. In other words, there is a strong built-in fan base that will attend games, buy merchandise etc. Last time I really looked, Bowling Green did not have that same base, neither does the Greater Toledo area, if you wanted to bill us as one of two programs in the area.

Personally, I don't see cutting other sports to focus on one as a good solution to the fact that many of our programs are in down cycles. (Admittedly, some longer than others.)

I'm glad somebody else also understands.

[DustinXtreme]

Who are any of you to judge what people think of the stroh center policies?!

Hmmmmm. Point a finger and there are 3 pointing back at you. And who are YOU to judge what people think (or don't think) of the Stroh Center policies? Further, who are you to judge what people think of what people think of the Stroh Center?

... really i don't care what anybody thinks!

Clearly you DO care, or you wouldn't respond so passionately. If you didn't care you wouldn't respond with the flipped finger smilie, catchy slogans, or a pretense of not caring. If you didn't care you wouldn't respond at all.

PROVE you don't care what anybody thinks by not answering this.
Prove that you DO care what anybody thinks by responding, preferably with a childish retort which you may believe resolves the issue.
I double dog dare you to NOT respond to me or anyone else in this post.

pot meet kettle!

[hammb]

Xavier has a concentration in basketball and they are better year in and out than all the Ohio MAC teams.

Xavier is also a D1 program in the City of Cincinnati, a city whose love of College Basketball is second only to their love of Reds baseball. In other words, there is a strong built-in fan base that will attend games, buy merchandise etc. Last time I really looked, Bowling Green did not have that same base, neither does the Greater Toledo area, if you wanted to bill us as one of two programs in the area.

Personally, I don't see cutting other sports to focus on one as a good solution to the fact that many of our programs are in down cycles. (Admittedly, some longer than others.)

I'm glad somebody else also understands.

The last time BG was good in hoops ('01-'02) we had multiple sellouts and routinely brought in 3000k fans per game. Obviously that is a far cry from what Xavier brings in, but it's still a pretty good support.

And my comment is not about building up basketball because it's cheap. It's about building up basketball because I think it's the one program that has a chance to be worth a damn outside of the MAC. MAC football has become a joke and the BCS has widened the gap between the haves and have nots to the point where it's not even fun to follow the program anymore. MAC football is total crap...on any given day there are 5-10 football games on TV that have far more entertainment value than a top MAC game would. I still root for BG and want them to do well, but how can you expect casual football fans to want to watch what is, without a doubt, a crap product on the field? Then when you take it out of the perfect world and schedule them on weeknights the games draw < 5000 fans. It's a joke, and a huge black hole of money.

But I have no vendetta against football. It's my favorite sport, and I've only missed a handful of games over the past decade. I love the tailgating and love going out to the Doyt to watch games. My problem is that I don't think the Athletic Department can keep costing so much money and giving so little in return... I don't think we can ever compete fielding so many D1 programs, we don't have the money to be worth a crap in any of them. I think our only hope at competing is to pick a sport or two and focus on that. Dropping football to a D2 program or something would save a LOT of money to put towards other sports.

Basketball, to me, seems the best bet to focus upon right now. We have a brand new arena. We have a brand new big time endowment. Our women's program has been insanely successful. Every year brings an opportunity to find yourselves on the national stage if you are good. I'd very much like to see us try to become "a basketball school," and to hell with the rest of the athletic department.

I know that my opinion is not shared by many and is very jaded by a terrible football season and a decade of overall suck up & down the athletic department, but I think there is some validity to it. I just don't think we can fun this many D1 programs at anything more than a barebones level. We don't have the fan support for it.

[DustinXtreme]

Xavier has a concentration in basketball and they are better year in and out than all the Ohio MAC teams.

Xavier is also a D1 program in the City of Cincinnati, a city whose love of College Basketball is second only to their love of Reds baseball. In other words, there is a strong built-in fan base that will attend games, buy merchandise etc. Last time I really looked, Bowling Green did not have that same base, neither does the Greater Toledo area, if you wanted to bill us as one of two programs in the area.

Personally, I don't see cutting other sports to focus on one as a good solution to the fact that many of our programs are in down cycles. (Admittedly, some longer than others.)

I'm glad somebody else also understands.

The last time BG was good in hoops ('01-'02) we had multiple sellouts and routinely brought in 3000k fans per game. Obviously that is a far cry from what Xavier brings in, but it's still a pretty good support.

And my comment is not about building up basketball because it's cheap. It's about building up basketball because I think it's the one program that has a chance to be worth a damn outside of the MAC. MAC football has become a joke and the BCS has widened the gap between the haves and have nots to the point where it's not even fun to follow the program anymore. MAC football is total crap...on any given day there are 5-10 football games on TV that have far more entertainment value than a top MAC game would. I still root for BG and want them to do well, but how can you expect casual football fans to want to watch what is, without a doubt, a crap product on the field? Then when you take it out of the perfect world and schedule them on weeknights the games draw < 5000 fans. It's a joke, and a huge black hole of money.

But I have no vendetta against football. It's my favorite sport, and I've only missed a handful of games over the past decade. I love the tailgating and love going out to the Doyt to watch games. My problem is that I don't think the Athletic Department can keep costing so much money and giving so little in return... I don't think we can ever compete fielding so many D1 programs, we don't have the money to be worth a crap in any of them. I think our only hope at competing is to pick a sport or two and focus on that. Dropping football to a D2 program or something would save a LOT of money to put towards other sports.

Basketball, to me, seems the best bet to focus upon right now. We have a brand new arena. We have a brand new big time endowment. Our women's program has been insanely successful. Every year brings an opportunity to find yourselves on the national stage if you are good. I'd very much like to see us try to become "a basketball school," and to hell with the rest of the athletic department.

I know that my opinion is not shared by many and is very jaded by a terrible football season and a decade of overall suck up & down the athletic department, but I think there is some validity to it. I just don't think we can fun this many D1 programs at anything more than a barebones level. We don't have the fan support for it.

Agreed!

[BGFalconfromCincy]

Xavier has a concentration in basketball and they are better year in and out than all the Ohio MAC teams.

Xavier is also a D1 program in the City of Cincinnati, a city whose love of College Basketball is second only to their love of Reds baseball. In other words, there is a strong built-in fan base that will attend games, buy merchandise etc. Last time I really looked, Bowling Green did not have that same base, neither does the Greater Toledo area, if you wanted to bill us as one of two programs in the area.

Personally, I don't see cutting other sports to focus on one as a good solution to the fact that many of our programs are in down cycles. (Admittedly, some longer than others.)

And they don't have a football program to suck up a lot of their money

[AyZiggy97]

MAC football has become a joke and the BCS has widened the gap between the haves and have nots to the point where it's not even fun to follow the program anymore. MAC football is total crap...on any given day there are 5-10 football games on TV that have far more entertainment value than a top MAC game would. I still root for BG and want them to do well, but how can you expect casual football fans to want to watch what is, without a doubt, a crap product on the field? Then when you take it out of the perfect world and schedule them on weeknights the games draw < 5000 fans. It's a joke, and a huge black hole of money.

I'm not sure exactly what to make of that paragraph, because it goes so many directions. The MAC is certainly better than the FCS. Even Akron beat VMI this season. I look at it this way: There has to be a reason that UMass, South Alabama, Texas State, Texas San Antonio, and Western Kentucky all joined FBS in the last three years.

So, I guess I'm not clear on what a *crap* product is.

[BleedOrange]

Xavier has a concentration in basketball and they are better year in and out than all the Ohio MAC teams.

Xavier is also a D1 program in the City of Cincinnati, a city whose love of College Basketball is second only to their love of Reds baseball. In other words, there is a strong built-in fan base that will attend games, buy merchandise etc. Last time I really looked, Bowling Green did not have that same base, neither does the Greater Toledo area, if you wanted to bill us as one of two programs in the area.

Personally, I don't see cutting other sports to focus on one as a good solution to the fact that many of our programs are in down cycles. (Admittedly, some longer than others.)

I'm glad somebody else also understands.

The last time BG was good in hoops ('01-'02) we had multiple sellouts and routinely brought in 3000k fans per game. Obviously that is a far cry from what Xavier brings in, but it's still a pretty good support.

And my comment is not about building up basketball because it's cheap. It's about building up basketball because I think it's the one program that has a chance to be worth a damn outside of the MAC. MAC football has become a joke and the BCS has widened the gap between the haves and have nots to the point where it's not even fun to follow the program anymore. MAC football is total crap...on any given day there are 5-10 football games on TV that have far more entertainment value than a top MAC game would. I still root for BG and want them to do well, but how can you expect casual football fans to want to watch what is, without a doubt, a crap product on the field? Then when you take it out of the perfect world and schedule them on weeknights the games draw < 5000 fans. It's a joke, and a huge black hole of money.

But I have no vendetta against football. It's my favorite sport, and I've only missed a handful of games over the past decade. I love the tailgating and love going out to the Doyt to watch games. My problem is that I don't think the Athletic Department can keep costing so much money and giving so little in return... I don't think we can ever compete fielding so many D1 programs, we don't have the money to be worth a crap in any of them. I think our only hope at competing is to pick a sport or two and focus on that. Dropping football to a D2 program or something would save a LOT of money to put towards other sports.

Basketball, to me, seems the best bet to focus upon right now. We have a brand new arena. We have a brand new big time endowment. Our women's program has been insanely successful. Every year brings an opportunity to find yourselves on the national stage if you are good. I'd very much like to see us try to become "a basketball school," and to hell with the rest of the athletic department.

I know that my opinion is not shared by many and is very jaded by a terrible football season and a decade of overall suck up & down the athletic department, but I think there is some validity to it. I just don't think we can fun this many D1 programs at anything more than a barebones level. We don't have the fan support for it.

Hammbone, as usual, you're right on target. The MAC's presence in Div 1A football is a farce.

Consider all of the teams in Div 1A football. How do MAC football teams stack up against the rest? Very poorly. Basically, you have Div 1A and then you have the entire MAC dangling at the ass end. After a decade of stretching, grasping, and spending just enough to technically maintain our status in Div 1A, what do we have to show for it. In the eyes of general fans we're not legitimately competitive. In fact, we're FAR less competitive now than we were 10 years ago. If the MAC dropped to Div 1AA, the nation would not care and it would not effect the quality of play or the MAC football experience.

[AyZiggy97]

If the MAC dropped to Div 1AA ... it would not effect the quality of play

Do you mean we'd get just as good of athletes or players as now?

[transfer2BGSU]

Do you mean we'd get just as good of athletes or players as now?

It depends.

If you put out a team that is going to challenge for the National Championship year in and year out - then Yes. There will be some players that will go the FCS, D-II, and D-III routes if they know they can play for a National Championship. I worked for a D-III program that had a National Championship Golf program (both men's and women's golf). We had some folks that turned down the opportunity to play at some D-I programs thinking they could play for us and win a National Championship.

If not, then No.

[AyZiggy97]

Do you mean we'd get just as good of athletes or players as now?

It depends.

If you put out a team that is going to challenge for the National Championship year in and year out - then Yes. There will be some players that will go the FCS, D-II, and D-III routes if they know they can play for a National Championship. I worked for a D-III program that had a National Championship Golf program (both men's and women's golf). We had some folks that turned down the opportunity to play at some D-I programs thinking they could play for us and win a National Championship.

If not, then No.

So the FCS champion is just as good as a MAC team? Is there any evidence for this? I know Akron lost in 2010 to an FCS school, but there is a reason that was an anomaly.

[hammb]

MAC football has become a joke and the BCS has widened the gap between the haves and have nots to the point where it's not even fun to follow the program anymore. MAC football is total crap...on any given day there are 5-10 football games on TV that have far more entertainment value than a top MAC game would. I still root for BG and want them to do well, but how can you expect casual football fans to want to watch what is, without a doubt, a crap product on the field? Then when you take it out of the perfect world and schedule them on weeknights the games draw < 5000 fans. It's a joke, and a huge black hole of money.

I'm not sure exactly what to make of that paragraph, because it goes so many directions. The MAC is certainly better than the FCS. Even Akron beat VMI this season. I look at it this way: There has to be a reason that UMass, South Alabama, Texas State, Texas San Antonio, and Western Kentucky all joined FBS in the last three years.

So, I guess I'm not clear on what a *crap* product is.

A crap product is lousy football. Football that is clearly a level or two below the bulk of D1A. I don't know if VMI is any good, but I do not kid myself into believing that the MAC is much better than the top tier teams in 1AA.

Yes, there is a reason that those other schools are going up to D1A, and it's because they hope to get a piece of the big pie. There is a TON of money to be made in D1A football, I just don't think that the MAC can make any of it. For whatever reason the MAC is far below nearly every other program in Division 1A when it comes to the ability to draw fans. For whatever reason this area just doesn't care about non BCS football. Look at the attendance figures and you'll find there are a LOT of D1AA football programs that do a better job with attendance than we do in the MAC.

Even WITH the windfall $1 million game against UF next year our football program will lose money. It will lose a LOT of money. It will lose even MORE money if they manage to make a bowl game.

At this point there is NOTHING that a MAC football program can do to not lose a fortune every year. It's just the way the sport has gone...it's completely passed the MAC by.

[transfer2BGSU]

So the FCS champion is just as good as a MAC team? Is there any evidence for this? I know Akron lost in 2010 to an FCS school, but there is a reason that was an anomaly.

I was not shocked when App. State beat Michigan a couple of years ago. Why? Because App State is a FCS powerhouse and a National Championship contender each year. I expected them to go into Ann Arbor and give them a good run for their money. App State is not like playing The Citadel.

A championship team is a good team, no matter the division. Look at Mount Union and what Larry Kehres has built over there. How many National Championships has he won? "Oh, but those are at the Division III level." Yeah. So what? It's still being the best in your division. I bet you there are a couple of kids that BGSU was looking at that went to Mount Union instead of here. Not many, but I bet there are a few.

BTW everybody - Look at Freak's thread in the football forum. Larry has done it again. 238 colleges and universities field football programs at the D-III level and Coach Kahres has Mt. Union back in the title game against UW-Whitewater for the seventh year in a row!

[AyZiggy97]

So the FCS champion is just as good as a MAC team? Is there any evidence for this? I know Akron lost in 2010 to an FCS school, but there is a reason that was an anomaly.

I was not shocked when App. State beat Michigan a couple of years ago. Why? Because App State is a FCS powerhouse and a National Championship contender each year. I expected them to go into Ann Arbor and give them a good run for their money. App State is not like playing The Citadel.

A championship team is a good team, no matter the division. Look at Mount Union and what Larry Kehres has built over there. How many National Championships has he won? "Oh, but those are at the Division III level." Yeah. So what? It's still being the best in your division. I bet you there are a couple of kids that BGSU was looking at that went to Mount Union instead of here. Not many, but I bet there are a few.

BTW everybody - Look at Freak's thread in the football forum. Larry has done it again. 238 colleges and universities field football programs at the D-III level and Coach Kahres has Mt. Union back in the title game against UW-Whitewater for the seventh year in a row!

And the MAC's had wins against BCS leagues too.

I'm not criticizing the work done at lower levels. There have been many players and coaches with success that is hard-earned.

[It's the Journey...]

Let me ask a couple of questions. Would BGSU football be better off in another conference BCS or not? Or, is the MAC just a conference of FBS football wanna be's and that will not change no mater what is done?

If the latter is true then we may be better off in FCS and spend what it takes to play for a true National Championship year in and year out. We have great facilities and I believe people will come out to see a consistent winning program. If the first question is true then BGSU needs to get out of the MAC and into another conference. While I love our loyalty to the MAC in this era of conference shake ups at some point we need to do what is in our best interests.

Thoughts??

[footballguy51]

I think the statement that we are in an area of the nation that doesn't care about non-BCS schools pretty much invalidates any talk about BGSU dropping to a lower division and being better off. People in this area care about BCS programs first. If BG became FCS, there would be essentially zero following because now we weren't even in the top level. Mount Union is D-III, which means if a player chose Mt. Union over BG, they gave up a scholarship to play for that team (highly doubt that has happened with even one player in the past 10 years). If a recruit receives an offer from a FBS school and a FCS school, who do you think they're going with? 75% of the time, it's the FBS school because the FBS gets the national attention. FCS games rarely are even on ESPN3.com, and they only show the playoff games on ESPN(2). I can name almost every FBS football team, and maybe 10 FCS teams. Being FBS is name recognition and a student recruiting tool.