The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by guest44 »

FalconTurf wrote:
guest44 wrote:Yep, that's the easy argument. Jans won because Holmes was an NBA caliber player. Not maybe Jans helped Holmes become an NBA player. My argument was the improvement of Clarke, Henderson, and Denny that season. All played at way higher levels than at any other point.
Jans did help Holmes become an NBA player but he didn't make him an NBA caliber athlete. Holmes had tools and ability that had to be tapped. Those tools and ability cannot be put into someone, they are there or they aren't. I don't see anyone on the current roster that is physically or athletically as gifted as Holmes. His teammates benefited because the opposition was concerned about Holmes. They had better looks, open drives to the basket and even rebounds while no less than one guy stayed attached to Richaun the whole time inside and then outside as the shot developed. The team looked better defensively because opposing players feared getting rejected at the basket and ended up altering shots and shot selection. Richaun was also a leader on the court emotionally and for his work ethic in games and practice his senior season. I'm sure this pushed others.

I think what we see now is the lack of a top tier leader on the team (and that leader needs to be a player, not a coach). Again, just like a top-tier athlete, you cannot make someone fill this role. It can be developed when someone buys in and has that ability within themselves. Unfortunately this program needs more recruits and development. I'm not sure how fast you think this can happen. If the right players are already in place it works quickly but if not patience must kick in.

Clawson built a football program that didn't really look good until the 4th year and then excelled the 5th year. He built it strong enough to last 2 years after he was gone and then it fell apart. Note all the leaders at various positions that graduated or left after that last MAC championship. Each unit on both sides of the ball had a leader that left and obviously very few of the units had found their new leader early in year and some might still be looking.
Well of course Holmes allowed all the other players to have better looks. That's like arguing the sun gives you a better chance for a tan. To discredit Jans and how those players developed that year, is basically trying to find a reason why Jans couldn't coach. That team was week and a concussion from the top seed in the tournament. A shot away from it with Holmes on the bench. The MAC had better top level talent that year as a league. How fast it can happen? In a year. Jans showed that. His coaching, his Juco transfers. Hell, Louis Orr found a fluke MAC regular season title in year 2. We all knew it was a fluke because we knew he wasn't the better coach in 85% of the games he coached in. BG was a underdog as the 1 seed in the MAC tournament vs. the 8. That said about as much as you needed to know. Bobby Hurley did it at Buffalo. John Groce at Ohio. And Chris Jans was doing it at BGSU. A bunch of players were going to leave if he stayed? Who cares? What have they won since? Most of those left anyway and it didn't matter either way. Lillard looked like one of the best players in the MAC in Cleveland last March. Now him showing up and scoring 18, is the only chance BG has to win. That's coaching. Being down 5 or 7 at the half and losing by 27 and 18 at home. That's coaching. Did you watch the BGSU/CMU tournament game last year? It was pretty fluky too.

Clawson was hired based on a resume that he did that in every place he had coached. The turning point was simple. IMO the most game changing quarterback in school history. He gets credit for finding that QB, he gets all he received for that. He did what he isdoing at Wake and did prior. But, football is not basketball. And Mike Jinks hardly has a resume. We hired him without a resume or an agent. Look what happened when Johnson didn't play. BGSU was average. Did Northern Illinois fall off the planet the year after its' last title? The smashed BG this year on like quarterback 3. Do you expect Western to go 1-8 to start this year? Again, Buffalo, Akron, Kent St., UMass, Miami have all basically stunk so bad for years they couldn't hardly get bowl eligible playing each other, even when BGSU sucks. Good coaches don't give up 56 to Memphis with 4 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. So far his resume says 77 points against twice. Assuming Jinks and Huger and every coach BG hires, will replicate Clawson, a guy whose resume said that is his specialty, it's just blind hope. That's what BG does best. Pay and hope. Then when the contract says hope is over, give the next person five years to receive and hope. BG does the same with the people making the choices. It's why several are still here without a plan and hoping. I wonder why Kingston didn't stick around to watch his pay and hope plan unfold? Couldn't I argue if Kingston really had confidence in these coaches, he would have stuck around the reap the rewards?
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by Flipper »

What? Are you suggesting CK hired Jinks and then left because he didn't think he could coach?

Again.... I would have preferred a more experienced hire in the short term. Taking a longer view...Jinks seems,willing to adapt his approach on the fly ...a number of coaches have too much ego for that...Dino...and he looks like he's one hell of a recruiter. A more experienced guy maybe blows out of here after a couple of years. If we get three or four more years of really good recruiting classes before Jinks builds a resume and leaves...that's a win for us.

And to suggest that Clawson's success was built solely on MJ is a tremendous insult to the rest of the team...particularly the other all MAC guys he developed.

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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by guest44 »

Yes. I think he watched spring game and could tell it was going to be an uphill climb. I watched the first quarter vs. OSU on TV, and could tell this team was a mess and he wasn't ready. I watched the first half vs. Memphis and it was something I'd never seen before. As could several other BGSU fans.

I'm not suggesting Matt Johnson was the only reason. However, like most times in football, dynamic quarterbacks change everything. We all saw that from the minute he took the field vs. Tulsa, It changed everything. BG had alot of really good players the year before and after. I don't need to list all of them here. I'll just list the one at the position that matters most.

I'll add BG still hasalot of really good players this year. Way more than 4-8 would represent.
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by Flipper »

I'm sorry...but the notion that Jinks caused CK to leave is nuts
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

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Not the singular cause. Add in the Buffalo AD getting Central Florida AD job he wanted. Men's and women's basketball finishing dead last. A cellphone video in a bar. An employee embezzlement situation. And a football coach he hired without an agent, who was woefully unprepared. Or maybe the timing of him leaving an AD position 5 months after he tried to get another AD position, to leave is just his new opportunity was too good to pass up. I can't imagine and AD who thought he had dynamic coaches in place, just leaving before the reward.
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by Flipper »

I can...I've left jobs I was perfectly happy in to go someplace else that offered a better opportunity. I imagine most people leave for greener pastures when they're happy. Trying to exit a bad situation makes you smell desperate....it makes you look weak. That really hamstrings your efforts.

I do think its strange that you listed a bunch of reasons why you think he would want to leave before saying you're surprised he left
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

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Fair enough. It's his choice. The timing to me is a big alarm. Once again, I hope I'm wrong. The results since his departure aren't great. But, like waiting since 1968 to see BG play in a NCAA Tournament, and frankly now assuming I die before it happens, we just have to give it time.
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

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CK left because he butted heads with the wrong people and didn't play well with others. Good public persona, not so good private persona.
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

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Well I'm glad he got to make a bunch of hires before he left........... and his hires get to stick around until they choose to leave. That's comforting that success is right around the corner. LOL
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by threestooges »

guest44 wrote:Well I'm glad he got to make a bunch of hires before he left........... and his hires get to stick around until they choose to leave. That's comforting that success is right around the corner. LOL
So if the director or CEO at the place where you work leaves to take another job, everyone who he/she hired should immediately be shown the door?
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

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threestooges wrote:
guest44 wrote:Well I'm glad he got to make a bunch of hires before he left........... and his hires get to stick around until they choose to leave. That's comforting that success is right around the corner. LOL
So if the director or CEO at the place where you work leaves to take another job, everyone who he/she hired should immediately be shown the door?
If their underperforming and not doing what you hired them to do, then yes. Jinks would have been surely fired in the corporate world with the results he had this past season. He took a MAC Championship team and finished with 4 WINS!! He got blown out and embarrassed MULTIPLE times! He makes $500,000!! He's a joke. He's a fraud. He's a scam artist. And he's robbing the university blind. Get rid of him! Corporate world would have without a second thought.
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by BillyLP »

CrazyFan wrote:
threestooges wrote:
guest44 wrote:Well I'm glad he got to make a bunch of hires before he left........... and his hires get to stick around until they choose to leave. That's comforting that success is right around the corner. LOL
So if the director or CEO at the place where you work leaves to take another job, everyone who he/she hired should immediately be shown the door?
If their underperforming and not doing what you hired them to do, then yes. Jinks would have been surely fired in the corporate world with the results he had this past season. He took a MAC Championship team and finished with 4 WINS!! He got blown out and embarrassed MULTIPLE times! He makes $500,000!! He's a joke. He's a fraud. He's a scam artist. And he's robbing the university blind. Get rid of him! Corporate world would have without a second thought.
This is asinine. It was a MAC Championship team that lost two (potentially) NFL quality receivers, a top QB, O-Linemen to injuries, and had an extremely young secondary. Not to mention he has one of the highest rated recruiting classes ever coming in next year. He was a first year coach. Did he underperform? Yes. Did he show a lot of promise, especially at the end of the year? Also, yes. I'm guessing you've never worked in collegiate athletics, but it would be career suicide to come in a fire a coach after one year. No respectable football coach in America would want to come work for you.
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by BillyLP »

But back to basketball -- I've never been to the Stroh, but when watching on TV, it doesn't look like much when 60% of the seats are empty. If Huger can turn out a few good wins this year and get it off to a good start next year, I think that will change pretty quickly. Get that arena full and we'll see a great home court advantage.
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by threestooges »

CrazyFan wrote:
threestooges wrote:
guest44 wrote:Well I'm glad he got to make a bunch of hires before he left........... and his hires get to stick around until they choose to leave. That's comforting that success is right around the corner. LOL
So if the director or CEO at the place where you work leaves to take another job, everyone who he/she hired should immediately be shown the door?
If their underperforming and not doing what you hired them to do, then yes. Jinks would have been surely fired in the corporate world with the results he had this past season. He took a MAC Championship team and finished with 4 WINS!! He got blown out and embarrassed MULTIPLE times! He makes $500,000!! He's a joke. He's a fraud. He's a scam artist. And he's robbing the university blind. Get rid of him! Corporate world would have without a second thought.
That's not what 44 was saying, though. Also -- and I know people think the money excuse is an excuse, BUT -- BGSU can't afford to get rid of a coach with four years left on his contract. They just can't.

Look, I get it. I'm a BGSU fan, and all of our teams blow. It's frustrating. Kingston came in & tried to fix problems by spending money. Early in his tenure, he spent way more than he was authorized to spend, and Mazey & the University told him to stop. He hired a helluva coach in Jans, albeit a coach who had questionable character at best. The jury's still out on Huger. Last year, with the loss of Holmes & others from the previous year, was going to see the team take a step back no matter who was coaching. This year ... the last two losses have been very frustrating, but the week before that saw two great performances at Akron and Ball State. I think this team's going to be up and down for the rest of the year, and I definitely think Huger deserves at least one more year to show us all what he can do, and to give our program some freaking stability.

What is my overall point here? I have no GD idea. I'm frustrated that our teams are losing, and I'm also frustrated that the same 2 or 3 people get on here and complain about the same things all the damn time. Maybe I should take a break from this board, because I can manufacture my own anger or bitterness w/o reading a message board.
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Re: The Stroh Center Environment is HORRID!

Post by Flipper »

CrazyFan wrote:
threestooges wrote:
guest44 wrote:Well I'm glad he got to make a bunch of hires before he left........... and his hires get to stick around until they choose to leave. That's comforting that success is right around the corner. LOL
So if the director or CEO at the place where you work leaves to take another job, everyone who he/she hired should immediately be shown the door?
If their underperforming and not doing what you hired them to do, then yes. Jinks would have been surely fired in the corporate world with the results he had this past season. He took a MAC Championship team and finished with 4 WINS!! He got blown out and embarrassed MULTIPLE times! He makes $500,000!! He's a joke. He's a fraud. He's a scam artist. And he's robbing the university blind. Get rid of him! Corporate world would have without a second thought.

This is good stuff....total commitment to the gimmick behind the parody
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