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Let’s do a little exercise that might shed a little more light onto our growing problem. Many, many, many people on this board rode Dan Dakich out of here as fast as they could. I wasn’t one of them, but I understood peoples frustrations and the need for the program to go another direction. Just for shits and giggles, throwing out Dakich’s Pre-WVU 5 years, which 4 you could call successes with some really good and exciting teams, here is his record from his last 5 years which we rode him hardcore out of here on:
02-03: 13-16 MAC: 8-10
03-04: 14-17 MAC: 8-10
04-05: 18-11 MAC: 10-8
05-06: 9-21 MAC: 5-13
06-07: 13-18 MAC: 3-13
Also remember is Dakich’s last final year the MAC went from 18 to 16 games. Now let’s look at our current coach’s record:
07-08: 13-17 MAC: 7-9
08-09: 19-14 MAC: 11-5
09-10: 14-16 MAC: 6-10
10-11: 12-18 MAC: 7-8 **atleast 2 more games to be played
08-09 gave us a TIE for a MAC Championship, which in all honesty, we totally fell into because other teams couldnt hold it together. We also had the priviledge of riding Nate Millers shoulders. And then we got drilled by Akron in the semi's.

I’m willing to guess with the current play we have seen from this team that a win on Saturday sadly isn’t very realistic (especially after Buffalo just ran Miami tonight), which will put us at 12-19 and with the loss in the MAC tourney at some point we will be 12-20, WITH A 20 LOSS SEASON! Ladies and gentleman, do me one favor……forget all you know about Dan Dakich and all your hatred against him. Now look at the two records. The first record that coach was ran outta town with shoes still up his butt. The second record is VERY VERY similar. I bet many of you wished we could of booted that 1st coach after the 4th season. So lets not make the same mistakes again. This program is heading into a new direction with 1.)a brand new arena we thought we would never see and 2.)10 million dollars to really put this program on the map. Its time we look in a new direction for a leader of this program that can capitalize on these assets and put this program where the university and its fans deserve it to be. Stop making excuses and look at the facts. Look at the stats. Look at the team for Christ Sakes! Time for a change. Until then if you all are satisfied with mediocre to poor basketball, then keep on fighting for Orr. We sucked for this long, what's another 2-4 years (by the time we get rid of Orr and hire a new coach that will need time to build his program)!

Thanks for your post, Dan. I'll have to consider the numbers a little later when I have some time.

Seriously, though... can we "forget all we know about..." Coach 1 in your example putting up those numbers in a situation he created himself? And the 2000 MAC Championship team lost four conference games. Did other teams "fall into that" one, too? A title is a title.

I'm not saying things are all sunshine and rainbows and I agree that the "wait and see" clock is running a little tight, but for all the points you make against people looking at this with Orr-colored glasses, I have to wonder if your suit jacket isn't on backwards.

TG1996 wrote:Thanks for your post, Dan. I'll have to consider the numbers a little later when I have some time.

I'm not saying things are all sunshine and rainbows and I agree that the "wait and see" clock is running a little tight, but for all the points you make against people looking at this with Orr-colored glasses, I have to wonder if your suit jacket isn't on backwards.

Well first off, Im not going to get into a Dakich pissing match. I said that I wasnt one of the ones that rode him out BUT I saw the need for him to go. Im not defending Dakich at all in this post. Hell, if you want me to, I can pull out Jimmy L's record and embarrass both of them! Im merely comparing two similar records, with the one record that coach being rode out of BG. Im just questioning why that 2nd coach isnt getting the same treatment. Maybe I should of just referred to them as "Coach's A & B", but I thought people would get my point when i said, again, "I wasn’t one of them, but I understood peoples frustrations and the need for the program to go another direction." Dakich had to go. Orr needs to go. Just trying to make a point, and a valid one comparing the records, Louis.

TG1996 wrote:Seriously, though... can we "forget all we know about..." Coach 1 in your example putting up those numbers in a situation he created himself? And the 2000 MAC Championship team lost four conference games. Did other teams "fall into that" one, too? A title is a title.

Agreed. A title is a title, but when examining how well a coach is doing you might want to look a little deeper into that title. That team was not very good. And again, not very well coached. A couple of key loses in the last two games of the season by other teams allowed us to win a share of the title. And then we got bounced in the semi game, and really had no business being on the floor from what I remember (remember being so pissed off I spent the second half watching it in the bar at the Q which it gets a little fuzzy from that point on?? ). My point is, we all care deeply for this program, and in its current state it sucks! And from my view it's not going to get better, especially looking at our play of late. We gave him all season to make something out of this team and they have actually gotten worse I think. Time to move on.

If the current team had some combination of seniors like Miller, Moten, and Clements, then maybe there should be more pressure on Orr. But the upper classmen following that trio weren't good enough to compete. Orr's first full recruiting class become seniors next year. If they under perform in 2011-12, I'll join in the frustrations.

There are areas of concern, including what in the world's happened to the freshmen and repeated poor decision making by Scott Thomas. But Orr's steadied the program from the revolving door at the end of Dakich's tenure. One more year is more than deserved.

AyZiggy97 wrote:If the current team had some combination of seniors like Miller, Moten, and Clements, then maybe there should be more pressure on Orr. But the upper classmen following that trio weren't good enough to compete. Orr's first full recruiting class become seniors next year. If they under perform in 2011-12, I'll join in the frustrations.

There are areas of concern, including what in the world's happened to the freshmen and repeated poor decision making by Scott Thomas. But Orr's steadied the program from the revolving door at the end of Dakich's tenure. One more year is more than deserved.

Hey. That's fine and that's your opinion. But my take on that is its just another excuse in a long line of excuses everyone is trying to make for this coach and this program instead of looking at it as it is! That's my opinion and Im sure many people will disagree. If your satisfied in allowing another year of this inept basketball, setting this program back another year, opening our new arena to boring ass basketball so that all the fans buying season tickets the first year wont be back the second plus years then lets keep him! Lets keep making excuses instead of fixing the problem. That always works in our everyday job, right???

I would be all for watching the Dee Brown, Scott Thomas class become seniors if either of them was a leader. Hell, Orr said himself that his team has no leaders after 30 games into a basketball season. Again, whose job is that to develop and recruit? That is roughly 95 games for either to become a leader in this program. Neither has. No leader ever lets your team lose by 40 at home twice in a season. Maybe Orr should call Coach Jackson and see if he is willing to come back and install some urgency and accountability. Also, I would love to meet the AAU or High School coach who put together the highlight video that sold our staff on James Erger. That was selling ice to eskimos.

AyZiggy97 wrote:If the current team had some combination of seniors like Miller, Moten, and Clements, then maybe there should be more pressure on Orr. But the upper classmen following that trio weren't good enough to compete. Orr's first full recruiting class become seniors next year. If they under perform in 2011-12, I'll join in the frustrations.

There are areas of concern, including what in the world's happened to the freshmen and repeated poor decision making by Scott Thomas. But Orr's steadied the program from the revolving door at the end of Dakich's tenure. One more year is more than deserved.

What poor decision making by Thomas are you talking about?

[quote=Hey. That's fine and that's your opinion. But my take on that is its just another excuse in a long line of excuses everyone is trying to make for this coach and this program instead of looking at it as it is! That's my opinion and Im sure many people will disagree. If your satisfied in allowing another year of this inept basketball, setting this program back another year, opening our new arena to boring ass basketball so that all the fans buying season tickets the first year wont be back the second plus years then lets keep him! Lets keep making excuses instead of fixing the problem. That always works in our everyday job, right???[/quote]


From the sounds of it you seem like a very frustrated fan as are many of us but I feel like it's a little premature to be going on this rant. The season isn't over yet and if this team all of a sudden got hot and pulled off a MAC tournament title you'd be asking for an extension. You act like this program is among the likes of Duke, North Carolina, and Kentucky where it would be more rational to fire a coach after 4 years for under producing, but this is a mid major school who hasn't made it to the NCAA tournament in about 50 years. So why set our program back even more by bringing in another coach who we'll then have to wait on him to get his type of players for his system. Let's stick with Orr and Co. a little longer and see what he's capable of with his players. To go along with that I have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to boring basketball. This has been a year packed full of exciting plays with the combination of small, quick Jordon Crawford and his connections with A'uston, Torian, and Craig for thrilling alley oops and dunks. Sure we've had our ups and downs when it comes to the win and loss column but with the combination of our young athletic talent and constantly gaining experience we should be a threat to be reckoned with in the MAC for upcoming years including next. If we fail to make noise and strongly compete for a MAC title next year then by all means let your voice be heard and do what you gotta do. But right now you are not being fair or rational about your opinion because you even pointed out how Dakich's last 5 years weren't very successful so really Orr has taken on a tougher project than you're giving credit for. Orr was the Big East Coach of the year at Seton Hall which last time I checked the Big East is by far the best conference in college basketball and full of hall of fame and future hall of fame coaches. And lastly, this is not an "excuse" like you have been tagging on anyone else who doesn't agree with you. It is simply looking at this program from an objective view and seeing what's best for it.

I would not be the least bit disappointed if the AD decided to clean house of this entire staff this offseason. I can definitely see how going into the new arena with a lot of fresh faces would appeal to the powers that be. I can certainly see an argument for getting rid of him too. There is no doubt that the Orr era has been mostly mired in mediocre, BORING basketball. I don't think he's done a good job developing talent, I don't think he's done a good job getting the most out of the players on the court, and I think the substitution patterns are oftentimes mind boggling.

The only reason I'm not completely sold that it is time to clean house is that I really like some of the younger talent on this team, and I definitely think recruiting has been on an upswing. I think Orr's first 2 recruiting classes failed to bring a whole lot of talent in, but I definitely think the last couple have brought in some guys that can play at a very high level in the MAC. For that reason, I'm curious to see what he can do with those more talented players as they become Juniors and Sophomores. Recruiting is 9/10 of the game in college basketball, and if he can bring in All-MAC capable players then it's worth waiting to see if he can continue to do so. Dan's biggest failing in his second tenure here was recruiting.

Next year would be my bottom line. I expect this team to compete for a MAC title next year. I expect 10+ conference wins, and a damn good run in the MAC tourney. Anything less and you can bet that I'll be right alongside you. I will have absolutely NO patience for mediocrity next season...it's definitely his make or break year. Like I said though, I haven't seen much on gameday to make me think he's a great coach, so if they wanted to can him tomorrow I wouldn't be crying.

If they canned him tomorrow you may be crying because who would then coach them on Saturday and thereafter in the tournament. Lol

guest44 wrote:I would be all for watching the Dee Brown, Scott Thomas class become seniors if either of them was a leader. Hell, Orr said himself that his team has no leaders after 30 games into a basketball season. Again, whose job is that to develop and recruit? That is roughly 95 games for either to become a leader in this program. Neither has. No leader ever lets your team lose by 40 at home twice in a season. Maybe Orr should call Coach Jackson and see if he is willing to come back and install some urgency and accountability. Also, I would love to meet the AAU or High School coach who put together the highlight video that sold our staff on James Erger. That was selling ice to eskimos.

Thomas and Brown weren't recruited to be superstars. They were meant to be the supporting cast for Chris Knight and Calhoun. We all know now that Knight couldn't excape the green monster and Calhoun's academics have slowed his progress.

I see signs of Crawford becoming this team's leader on the floor. This will become more apparent next year when the PG position and essentially the team will be his to lose from day one.

BGSUHoops wrote:

AyZiggy97 wrote:If the current team had some combination of seniors like Miller, Moten, and Clements, then maybe there should be more pressure on Orr. But the upper classmen following that trio weren't good enough to compete. Orr's first full recruiting class become seniors next year. If they under perform in 2011-12, I'll join in the frustrations.

There are areas of concern, including what in the world's happened to the freshmen and repeated poor decision making by Scott Thomas. But Orr's steadied the program from the revolving door at the end of Dakich's tenure. One more year is more than deserved.

What poor decision making by Thomas are you talking about?

I wonder about some of his decisions on making passes. He leads the team in turnovers, but also in minutes played, so it's somewhat understandable. But they come, it seems to me, at critical times. One pass at Miami was part of a set play which looked like had broken down. The pas was stolen and it resulted in a layup for MU.

I think he's overall a really good player. Maybe he should look to score more, but I don't pretend to be a coach. It's just that some of his mistakes are hard to take this late in his junior year.

hammb wrote:I would not be the least bit disappointed if the AD decided to clean house of this entire staff this offseason. I can definitely see how going into the new arena with a lot of fresh faces would appeal to the powers that be. I can certainly see an argument for getting rid of him too. There is no doubt that the Orr era has been mostly mired in mediocre, BORING basketball. I don't think he's done a good job developing talent, I don't think he's done a good job getting the most out of the players on the court, and I think the substitution patterns are oftentimes mind boggling.

The only reason I'm not completely sold that it is time to clean house is that I really like some of the younger talent on this team, and I definitely think recruiting has been on an upswing. I think Orr's first 2 recruiting classes failed to bring a whole lot of talent in, but I definitely think the last couple have brought in some guys that can play at a very high level in the MAC. For that reason, I'm curious to see what he can do with those more talented players as they become Juniors and Sophomores. Recruiting is 9/10 of the game in college basketball, and if he can bring in All-MAC capable players then it's worth waiting to see if he can continue to do so. Dan's biggest failing in his second tenure here was recruiting.

Next year would be my bottom line. I expect this team to compete for a MAC title next year. I expect 10+ conference wins, and a damn good run in the MAC tourney. Anything less and you can bet that I'll be right alongside you. I will have absolutely NO patience for mediocrity next season...it's definitely his make or break year. Like I said though, I haven't seen much on gameday to make me think he's a great coach, so if they wanted to can him tomorrow I wouldn't be crying.

My feelings exactly. I think there's an 80% chance he'll get another year because he was a Christopher hire, but the results have to start showing up on the court. We're playing for keeps now with the Stroh Center and the Frack donation and simply can't afford or tolerate mediocre-to-barely-adequate basketball any more.

Hire Charlie Sheen...that dude is all about winning

When is Orr's contract up? I wouldn't even start a discussion about a new coach at least until the current contract expires. Orr is a class act and he deserves to at least coach for the rest of his current deal.

There are more things to a program than winning games and from the outside it appears Orr has run a solid program overall. Any move to get rid of Orr sooner than the end of his contract is crazy talk. Let's face it, this is Bowling Green and the MAC. As we've learned this season, we don't have a lot of money and resources to fully fund and staff a real Division I level program. Most of the Orr criticism is out of line and comes from frustration rather than looking at our program realistically.

I think Orr is more than capable on game day. However, I do think he has fallen short in recruiting which translates to wins. Let's fix this problem. I believe that should be the main determining factor in the next year or so to see if Orr gets an extension. Can he bring the talent? If the answer is "no", then make a change.