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...Tod Kowalczyk can come into Toledo and have them favored to win the West in his second year after they hit rock bottom a few years ago, and BG can't ever do better than a .500 team year after year?

I realize the West isn't as strong as the East in basketball but why is rebuilding at Toledo seem to be such an easier proposition than BG?

Is this why we have to settle for "retread" coaches like Louie Orr? Would Jim Christian have considered the BG job if he hadn't had the opportunity at OU? (Don't get me wrong, I am not a big fan of Christian. I think he simply profited from the great work of Gary Waters at Kent). Just wonder how potential coaches view the BG job...especially among other MAC programs?

Just wondering why other programs propsper in the MAC while we are a perennial middle-of-the-road team at best?

Can't we at least wait until after the first game for everyone to start bitching about the state of BG basketball? Oh, our coach is a retread. Oh, our offense is boring. Oh, we should have built a bigger arena. Oh, our warm up suits don't have enough orange. Oh, Crawford is a ball hog. Oh, Calhoun shrinks in tough situations.

Watch a damn game before comparing us to other schools.

Or just watch the MAC Tournament game from last year. That's about all you need to see.

BGorDeath wrote:Can't we at least wait until after the first game for everyone to start bitching about the state of BG basketball? Oh, our coach is a retread. Oh, our offense is boring. Oh, we should have built a bigger arena. Oh, our warm up suits don't have enough orange. Oh, Crawford is a ball hog. Oh, Calhoun shrinks in tough situations.

Watch a damn game before comparing us to other schools.

Wait at least til the 2nd game. I'm not going to base much on playing a D2 school in the regular season.

Oh and Orr is 60-66 while at BG. Hooray mediocrity!

Falcon137 wrote:

BGorDeath wrote:Can't we at least wait until after the first game for everyone to start bitching about the state of BG basketball? Oh, our coach is a retread. Oh, our offense is boring. Oh, we should have built a bigger arena. Oh, our warm up suits don't have enough orange. Oh, Crawford is a ball hog. Oh, Calhoun shrinks in tough situations.

Watch a damn game before comparing us to other schools.

Wait at least til the 2nd game. I'm not going to base much on playing a D2 school in the regular season.

Oh and Orr is 60-66 while at BG. Hooray mediocrity!

Dave Clawson is 20-26.

Globetrotter wrote:

Falcon137 wrote:

BGorDeath wrote:Can't we at least wait until after the first game for everyone to start bitching about the state of BG basketball? Oh, our coach is a retread. Oh, our offense is boring. Oh, we should have built a bigger arena. Oh, our warm up suits don't have enough orange. Oh, Crawford is a ball hog. Oh, Calhoun shrinks in tough situations.

Watch a damn game before comparing us to other schools.

Wait at least til the 2nd game. I'm not going to base much on playing a D2 school in the regular season.

Oh and Orr is 60-66 while at BG. Hooray mediocrity!

Dave Clawson is 20-26.

Clawson's teams have improved. 2-10, 5-7, 6-3 (3 games remaining). He also inherited a mess.

Orr's teams have been stagnant. 14-16, 14-19, 16-16 is not getting better.

Clawson's roster has talented players....

Not to mention that the program Clawson inherited was a total mess academically and legally. He cleaned it up in that regard, and has a boat load of talent on that team.

Meanwhile Orr took over a team that was bad on the court but perfectly fine off it. And did so in a sport that really only requires 1-2 top players to win a ton of games. He has yet to bring in a single dominant player in 5 years (or is it longer now?)

And as for waiting to the start of the season before we start bitching about basketball, meh. This team doesn't return a ton of talent, doesn't return a single truly great player, and doesn't really have any newcomers that anybody is super thrilled about. The only thing we really have to hope for is that maybe the under-utilized freshmen from last year break out and prove to be better than what we've got.

But building your team around a turnover-prone PG and a headcase PF is no way to expect a good season.

guest44 wrote:Or just watch the MAC Tournament game from last year. That's about all you need to see.

Sadly, this comment actually made me LOL when I read this thread.

BGorDeath wrote:Can't we at least wait until after the first game for everyone to start bitching about the state of BG basketball? Oh, our coach is a retread. Oh, our offense is boring. Oh, we should have built a bigger arena. Oh, our warm up suits don't have enough orange. Oh, Crawford is a ball hog. Oh, Calhoun shrinks in tough situations.

Watch a damn game before comparing us to other schools.

How about watching 5 years of an Orr-led program at BG? Think that's enough of a resume to be optimistic/pessimistic...or shudder the thought, have an opinion? Orr is 76-82 in those five years. Numbers don't lie. That's 158 games. What's one more going to tell me?

Pre-season favorite is the same as winning it? Let's brag on their coach if he actually wins something. Overall record of Orr is mediocre but he DID win a division on the court. Didn't expect much that year either. Too bad hope is shot before opening day - guess this is the other b-ball.

Falcon137 wrote:

Globetrotter wrote:

Falcon137 wrote:

BGorDeath wrote:Can't we at least wait until after the first game for everyone to start bitching about the state of BG basketball? Oh, our coach is a retread. Oh, our offense is boring. Oh, we should have built a bigger arena. Oh, our warm up suits don't have enough orange. Oh, Crawford is a ball hog. Oh, Calhoun shrinks in tough situations.

Watch a damn game before comparing us to other schools.

Wait at least til the 2nd game. I'm not going to base much on playing a D2 school in the regular season.

Oh and Orr is 60-66 while at BG. Hooray mediocrity!

Dave Clawson is 20-26.

Clawson's teams have improved. 2-10, 5-7, 6-3 (3 games remaining). He also inherited a mess.

Orr's teams have been stagnant. 14-16, 14-19, 16-16 is not getting better.

You don't think Orr inherited a mess?

hammb wrote:Not to mention that the program Clawson inherited was a total mess academically and legally. He cleaned it up in that regard, and has a boat load of talent on that team.

Meanwhile Orr took over a team that was bad on the court but perfectly fine off it. And did so in a sport that really only requires 1-2 top players to win a ton of games. He has yet to bring in a single dominant player in 5 years (or is it longer now?)

And as for waiting to the start of the season before we start bitching about basketball, meh. This team doesn't return a ton of talent, doesn't return a single truly great player, and doesn't really have any newcomers that anybody is super thrilled about. The only thing we really have to hope for is that maybe the under-utilized freshmen from last year break out and prove to be better than what we've got.

But building your team around a turnover-prone PG and a headcase PF is no way to expect a good season.

1st team all MAC PF

Globetrotter wrote:

Falcon137 wrote:

Globetrotter wrote:

Falcon137 wrote:

BGorDeath wrote:Can't we at least wait until after the first game for everyone to start bitching about the state of BG basketball? Oh, our coach is a retread. Oh, our offense is boring. Oh, we should have built a bigger arena. Oh, our warm up suits don't have enough orange. Oh, Crawford is a ball hog. Oh, Calhoun shrinks in tough situations.

Watch a damn game before comparing us to other schools.

Wait at least til the 2nd game. I'm not going to base much on playing a D2 school in the regular season.

Oh and Orr is 60-66 while at BG. Hooray mediocrity!

Dave Clawson is 20-26.

Clawson's teams have improved. 2-10, 5-7, 6-3 (3 games remaining). He also inherited a mess.

Orr's teams have been stagnant. 14-16, 14-19, 16-16 is not getting better.

You don't think Orr inherited a mess?

Can't even compare the 2. The scholarship reduction Clawson had to deal with set the program back years, it would be like Orr only having 9 available scholarships.

No even brought up the fact during Orr's tenure he has been given a brand new arena to recruit to and had a 10 million dollar gift given to the basketball program.

Globetrotter wrote:

hammb wrote:Not to mention that the program Clawson inherited was a total mess academically and legally. He cleaned it up in that regard, and has a boat load of talent on that team.

Meanwhile Orr took over a team that was bad on the court but perfectly fine off it. And did so in a sport that really only requires 1-2 top players to win a ton of games. He has yet to bring in a single dominant player in 5 years (or is it longer now?)

And as for waiting to the start of the season before we start bitching about basketball, meh. This team doesn't return a ton of talent, doesn't return a single truly great player, and doesn't really have any newcomers that anybody is super thrilled about. The only thing we really have to hope for is that maybe the under-utilized freshmen from last year break out and prove to be better than what we've got.

But building your team around a turnover-prone PG and a headcase PF is no way to expect a good season.

1st team all MAC PF

Yes, he is an all MAC caliber player...talent wise he's a MAC POY caliber player. My problem with building a team around him as your best player is how inconsistent he is. I love him when he's on, but he is a player that has a tendency to take himself almost completely out of the game if he doesn't get it going early on. Hopefully he's made strides in this area this year, but it's tough for me to get optimistic about that after watching the same thing for 3 years.

The rest of the team I'm just not that optimistic about. I'm hopeful that some of the young guards play more often this year and show improvement, but deep inside I fully expect 30+ minutes of turnovers from Crawford and 25 minutes of meh from Kraus.

I've watched it for 5 years, and I gave him 5 years before drawing any firm conclusions...and I just find it impossible to expect BG to ever be better than mediocre under coach Orr and with the experience we lost I think mediocrity would be shooting too high this year. Of course I'm still excited as hell for the season to start just because I know we've got some athleticism and there will be dunks...not to mention I've got great seats in an awesome arena.

I hope I'm wrong on the team this year, but I don't expect more than 12-15 wins. Regardless, I'll still be there til the end enjoying every dunk and fast break...and lamenting every turnover and 5:00 scoreless stretch.