Cost Analysis of Keeping A Bad Coach with a Long Contract

[ZuluWarrior]

I wonder if an athletic department does a cost analysis of keeping a bad coach who was signed to a long term contract??? My question, hypothetically, is if a program has a coach who is producing average results in a substandard conference in Division 1, does an athletic program calculate the cost advantage of paying the coach's contract out to avoid completely destroying a program over multiple years.
For example only, say a coach is hired for three years and after the second year is given, say a five year extension, but after another two more years it is obvious the program is regressing (even if one person may think it is going in the right way directionally speaking of course), does the program study lost ticket revenue, merchandise, booster support, game day food and beverage, etc...to determine whether it might be best to buy the coach out and maybe sell 1,000 more tickets per game than what they may currently be getting?
Just wondering...
Yes, I am in a flippant, sarcastic and just plain frustrated and disappointed mood today.

[CrazyFan]

I wonder if an athletic department does a cost analysis of keeping a bad coach who was signed to a long term contract??? My question, hypothetically, is if a program has a coach who is producing average results in a substandard conference in Division 1, does an athletic program calculate the cost advantage of paying the coach's contract out to avoid completely destroying a program over multiple years.
For example only, say a coach is hired for three years and after the second year is given, say a five year extension, but after another two more years it is obvious the program is regressing (even if one person may think it is going in the right way directionally speaking of course), does the program study lost ticket revenue, merchandise, booster support, game day food and beverage, etc...to determine whether it might be best to buy the coach out and maybe sell 1,000 more tickets per game than what they may currently be getting?
Just wondering...
Yes, I am in a flippant, sarcastic and just plain frustrated and disappointed mood today.

That would require "such" programs Athletic Department to have a clue..............

[guest44]

Atleast Louis Orr will have a legacy, the coach who buried BGSU basketball. Let's make sure to get a picture of him shrugging his shoulders to put in the entry way of the Stroh.

[BleedOrange]

I wonder if an athletic department does a cost analysis of keeping a bad coach who was signed to a long term contract??? My question, hypothetically, is if a program has a coach who is producing average results in a substandard conference in Division 1, does an athletic program calculate the cost advantage of paying the coach's contract out to avoid completely destroying a program over multiple years....

Zululu, this is the question I've been turning over in my head since the summer.

I believe that $168,000 is the annual salary for coach Orr, which is damned low even for the MAC. Assuming it would take roughly that amount to buy out his final year (which is next year), it would be extremely disappointing to learn that BG could NOT buy out this contract strictly due to a lack of funds. However, a lack of funds may be a financial brick wall, no matter how badly the anyone want to see a buyout happen.

The other dimension to this question is perception: do the university officials actually see the problem the same way WE see the problem? Do the have the same sense of urgency for getting the program back on track next year?

Based on the returning talent, and the current under-use of the talent that does return, next year's team under Orr is a very ugly prospect. Next year, the hope of winning even 10 games seems far fetched.

[CrazyFan]

Atleast Louis Orr will have a legacy, the coach who buried BGSU basketball. Let's make sure to get a picture of him shrugging his shoulders to put in the entry way of the Stroh.

Along with the quote "To God be the Glory!" right above his picture. Maybe a small caption underneath that that says "Louis Orr wiped BGSU off the College Basketball map, but its ok, because he's a good guy!"

[transfer2BGSU]

The other dimension to this question is perception: do the university officials actually see the problem the same way WE see the problem? Do the have the same sense of urgency for getting the program back on track next year?

Remember this administration is also negotiating a contract with the faculty who are paid less than the head coach. There are numerous faculty members that could care less about athletics and will raise holy &@!? if they release a coach and still pay him the $175K due his contract.

How much fundraising is Athletics responsible for when you look at our endowments? A decent percentage but enough to warrant termination or can they hold out for one more year. If this was pre-Stroh, there might be a view of action needed now. But with the Stroh being a reality, what is another year in the grand scheme of things?

I would bet most of our former student-athletes that give back to the department, give back to their respective sport. So the former football player is not concerned with the status of the basketball coach. The former gymnast is more concerned about what venue the squad will be in next year.

The big question: Are the people that have the money and that give to the basketball program, what are they saying to Greg Christopher? Are they threatening to hold off on the $1,000+ donations to the Falcon Club? Are they going to withhold being a member of the Champions Circle? You know the saying: Money talks.

[CrazyFan]

The big question: Are the people that have the money and that give to the basketball program, what are they saying to Greg Christopher? Are they threatening to hold off on the $1,000+ donations to the Falcon Club? Are they going to withhold being a member of the Champions Circle? You know the saying: Money talks.

Let's hope to God that money talks and Louie Walks for the sake of our basketball program.

[Globetrotter]

The big question: Are the people that have the money and that give to the basketball program, what are they saying to Greg Christopher? Are they threatening to hold off on the $1,000+ donations to the Falcon Club? Are they going to withhold being a member of the Champions Circle? You know the saying: Money talks.

Let's hope to God that money talks and Louie Walks for the sake of our basketball program.

If Louis Orr is back you might as well just shut down the basketball program. You are essentially saying it's not important to us.

[MarkL]

It's been maddening to watch the team this year. You can see the talent there. What I'm not seeing is enough development from freshman to senior year and some really odd choices for playing time. These both come down to coaching. I've always been an Orr supporter largely because of how good of a man he is and how much of an asset his character is for the university, but flip side of the coin I wouldn't disagree with a decision to move on to a new coach after this season.

Even if GC is interested in hiring a new coach for next year, there's a couple of quick thoughts here.
One, there's some faculty cuts coming. Now it looks like a lot of these cuts are going to be in the realm of not replacing retiring profs, but regardless that's going to be a smaller group soon. I know that athletic funding comes from a different bucket than general education funding but it looks a little bad to replace the coach of one of the most visible and most expensive athletic programs when these cuts are gong on. Nobody likes simply running out a contract on a coach because it's difficult to recruit when the coach can't promise to return the next year, but maybe GC would consider not renewing Orr's contract instead of buying out the contract after this season, which means another year.
And two, just a rumor, but I've heard that at least one of the major donations in recent years came with a condition of support for Orr. If GC wants a new coach, he'd have to convince said donor(s) that this is the correct path forward for BG basketball. Again this is a rumor, but if so that could be easier said than done.

[CrazyFan]

The big question: Are the people that have the money and that give to the basketball program, what are they saying to Greg Christopher? Are they threatening to hold off on the $1,000+ donations to the Falcon Club? Are they going to withhold being a member of the Champions Circle? You know the saying: Money talks.

Let's hope to God that money talks and Louie Walks for the sake of our basketball program.

If Louis Orr is back you might as well just shut down the basketball program. You are essentially saying it's not important to us.

The basketball program is literally shut down already, unfortunately. With every Louie shrug of the shoulders, he continues to convey the "I have no freakin idea what I'm doing" conception of himself and our program. Then he tries to hide it with the half hour of religion class after the game.

[BleedOrange]

....If this was pre-Stroh, there might be a view of action needed now. But with the Stroh being a reality, what is another year in the grand scheme of things? ....

What's the reasoning here? I'd be inclined to see it in reverse: with our nice new facility, the opportunity cost having a bad program from one more year is higher with the Stroh than in Anderson.

[Falconfreak90]

A change needs to be made...no doubt about it. Whether it happens this year or not remains to be seen. I don't think GC has the kahunas to pull the trigger this year even if the funds are available.

[hammb]

A change needs to be made...no doubt about it. Whether it happens this year or not remains to be seen. I don't think GC has the kahunas to pull the trigger this year even if the funds are available.

And I see that as a giant slap in the face to all of us basketball fans, season ticket holders, donors, alumni, etc.

That would mark the second time in a decade that a basketball coach was clearly not right for the program, and the administration just let them continue running the program into the ground until their contract expired. Other than Dakich (and potentially Orr, if it comes to that) can anyone point me to any other coaches that teams/schools have just let their contract run out? Off the top of my head I cannot think of any. In coaching you're either fired or winning. It's absolutely ridiculous to let this program (in a brand new building, no less) rot until the contract runs out. The contract that has Orr as one of the lowest paid coaches in D1 (thus probably one of the lowest buyouts).

As an aside, this is DEFINITELY a case of you get what you pay for. When Orr is replaced (hope to god it's this year, but if not, then next year) I hope that we're out there offering a competitive salary. Borrow against that donation promise...do whatever the hell it takes to find money to pay a coach like a real D1 coach should be paid and then maybe, just maybe, we'll find somebody that cares enough to put a winning product on the floor. There have got to be assistant coaches chomping at the bit for a head coaching gig that pays in $300-400k. But for what we're paying Orr we're gonna get more garbage...

[Globetrotter]

That would mark the second time in a decade that a basketball coach was clearly not right for the program, and the administration just let them continue running the program into the ground until their contract expired. Other than Dakich (and potentially Orr, if it comes to that) can anyone point me to any other coaches that teams/schools have just let their contract run out? Off the top of my head I cannot think of any. In coaching you're either fired or winning. It's absolutely ridiculous to let this program (in a brand new building, no less) rot until the contract runs out. The contract that has Orr as one of the lowest paid coaches in D1 (thus probably one of the lowest buyouts).

100%. It's standard procedure to let a failing coach go with a year left in order to not have a dead year. This should be built into the thought process with the initial contract. It doesn't matter what is going on with the rest of the university. If you are going to have a basketball team, then this kind of thing comes with it. This is the type of thread that shouldn't even need to be made. Of course there is a huge issue when you leave a failing coach around to fail. Fans stop caring, money stops coming in and the momentum swings the other way. If we don't have the money to do this kind of thing then we are playing on a different playing field. It would be like playing with taped together basketballs. Were the bad news bears.

[transfer2BGSU]

It's standard procedure to let a failing coach go with a year left in order to not have a dead year. This should be built into the thought process with the initial contract. It doesn't matter what is going on with the rest of the university. If you are going to have a basketball team, then this kind of thing comes with it.

Whose standard procedure? Ohio State's? This is the problem with college athletics. Some people feel you run the university for your athletic program and academics be damned.

Right now, this university is trying to negotiate a contract with the faculty. The faculty are looking at every salary of every university employee. You pay a former employee $175K to sit at home for one year and the faculty union is going to have a conniption.

We are about to lose 100 faculty positions and not replace many of them. This will provide more money for faculty salaries, but how will this impact the quality of education that students are paying for? If the students begin transferring en masse, lower enrollments are going to be more of a concern than one basketball coach.

And you are only concerned about one basketball coach.

History shows us how the university is going to handle this...The same as Ankney, Blackney, Dakich, and Paluch. It's a fiscal responsibility.