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Considering we were in first place and having a great season, then to suffer back-to-back heartbreaking losses to close out the regular season by a combined three measly points and to be the one team out of the five in the mix for a bye to be cut out, it's extremely deflating.

How crushing have the last two losses been?? It has put us in the same position that we've been in two of the last three years by missing out on a bye and having to host a first round game. Our seed is slightly better, yes, but we're in the same exact situation. The way the tournament is formatted it completely rewards the regular season and it's great it's set up that way. But we were as close to being awarded as you could be but came up heartbreakingly short. That is really hard to believe considering we seemed head and shoulders above where we've been in recent years, yet, ended up right back where we've often finished in the end. I'm not saying we aren't a better than those teams, we are. But we're in the same position when everything is said and done - on the outside looking in. I just hope this team can finally break through and actually get to Cleveland which would be something teams the last several years couldn't do.

It's sort of a shame that this is the year that the MAC really came on strong as a whole because if we had this team and finish in one of the last several years we're probably looking at a triple-bye team in the seeding from it right now. This is probably the best the MAC has looked in a decade overall.

Given how BG lost all these games to close out the stretch run (so many losses at home, and close losses) -- I think it's pretty obvious the culture of losing isn't gone yet from the team. And probably won't be until a majority of the players were those brought in by Coach Jans and had some time to learn his system.

I don't believe you can under-estimate just how damaging all the Orr years were. The more time that goes on, and with a chance to reflect on those teams vs. what we're seeing now, strengthens my view that it will take some time to totally remove the black cloud from this program. Folding like a bad patio chair at home, when you have an opportunity to basically sew up the East title; and losing the way they've lost down the stretch, all point to mental issues, more than physical.

Coach has done a masterful job of taking players Orr had no clue how to use, and at least put them in a position to win games. That they couldn't finish is more a reflection of their lack of confidence than probably anything else.

It's hard to hear, especially when this team came so close, but PATIENCE is needed. Let's let Coach Jans get a few more of his players into his system, and see how things shake out. You'd have to be blind not to have noticed the leaps this team made in a season when basically NOTHING was expected of them. That just reinforces the feeling that we are seeing the start of something special.

Hopefully the students and other local fans will begin recognizing that soon and respond. That black cloud has also kept The Stroh from being a first class home court, as it will take a while before people actually believe in the program again.

Like I said: it's hard to gauge just how much damage keeping Orr that long caused to this program...but it was significant. Shame on the Athletic Department of not acting sooner.

Falconwriter wrote:Given how BG lost all these games to close out the stretch run (so many losses at home, and close losses) -- I think it's pretty obvious the culture of losing isn't gone yet from the team. And probably won't be until a majority of the players were those brought in by Coach Jans and had some time to learn his system.

I don't believe you can under-estimate just how damaging all the Orr years were. The more time that goes on, and with a chance to reflect on those teams vs. what we're seeing now, strengthens my view that it will take some time to totally remove the black cloud from this program. Folding like a bad patio chair at home, when you have an opportunity to basically sew up the East title; and losing the way they've lost down the stretch, all point to mental issues, more than physical.

Coach has done a masterful job of taking players Orr had no clue how to use, and at least put them in a position to win games. That they couldn't finish is more a reflection of their lack of confidence than probably anything else.

It's hard to hear, especially when this team came so close, but PATIENCE is needed. Let's let Coach Jans get a few more of his players into his system, and see how things shake out. You'd have to be blind not to have noticed the leaps this team made in a season when basically NOTHING was expected of them. That just reinforces the feeling that we are seeing the start of something special.

Hopefully the students and other local fans will begin recognizing that soon and respond. That black cloud has also kept The Stroh from being a first class home court, as it will take a while before people actually believe in the program again.

Like I said: it's hard to gauge just how much damage keeping Orr that long caused to this program...but it was significant. Shame on the Athletic Department of not acting sooner.

Couldn't agree more. When you have a talent like Holmes, you don't waste a year to let a worthless coach rot because he is a good human. Combine that with the majority of that last recruiting class being non-contributors, and it makes what Jans did here that much more impressive. The culture has been changed, and these seniors will be the players who did it. Let's make a run in the MAC Tournament and get another shot at Toledo.

I think they kept Orr around because the AD was on his way out the door and he didn't want to tie the new guys hands with his hire and the optics of buying out a coach for a season in the midst of cost cutting within the University would have been horrendous.

in the end...who really gives a s**t any more? This team is not in "the same place" as last year or the year before. This team has a direction..it's up. We're the 5th seed, we're playing BSU and then we're headed to Cleveland

Agreed. We're the 5th seed, we're playing at home and we have a chance.

Our NCAA tournament starts Monday. If we keep winning, we keep playing.

Toledo is sitting there waiting for us on Thursday if we can beat Ball State and/or Miami/EMU. I love how the current tournament format rewards the top 4 seeds with triple (seeds 1and 2) and double (seeds 3 and 4) byes. But if you're seeded 5-12, you're fighting a massive uphill battle as you have to win 5 games in 6 days. Playing 5 baseball games in 6 days would be taxing, let alone playing basketball in that time frame. Basketball is not meant to be played like that. If Kentucky had to do that against its peers I'd expect them to lose to a team in the later rounds fresh and rested. Kudos for the MAC for setting up this format as it makes the MAC regular season actually count for something more now. But in this format, if you don't get one of the top 4 seeds, good luck trying to win to even advance as far as one of the byes would have gotten you. Ohio won it as a 9-seed a few years ago, but that was in the old format and they had to play less games than they would now. To see a team seeded 5-12 now do it woukd be remarkable.

I think some of our players ran out of gas and some just came alive. Some with names like Gomez, Denny, Clarke, and Parker come to mind. Mayleben? Let's be real. We probably beat most of the teams we should have and lost to the teams we should have, except we were very close to winning it all with Louie Orr's recruits. and a couple of additions. If Coach Jans can do that in a single season, then we got a good one.

I mean, seriously, we had a pleasant surprise in what was supposed to be a throwaway year and, with luck, we'll get to 20 (TWENTY!) wins. Nobody expected that.

Let's get to Cleveland and then see how far we can go. It's still better than the last 6 years.....

HoopsFan

HoopsFan wrote:I think some of our players ran out of gas and some just came alive. Some with names like Gomez, Denny, Clarke, and Parker come to mind. Mayleben? Let's be real. We probably beat most of the teams we should have and lost to the teams we should have, except we were very close to winning it all with Louie Orr's recruits. and a couple of additions. If Coach Jans can do that in a single season, then we got a good one.

I mean, seriously, we had a pleasant surprise in what was supposed to be a throwaway year and, with luck, we'll get to 20 (TWENTY!) wins. Nobody expected that.

Let's get to Cleveland and then see how far we can go. It's still better than the last 6 years.....

HoopsFan

Well put!

BGSU33 wrote:Toledo is sitting there waiting for us on Thursday if we can beat Ball State and/or Miami/EMU. I love how the current tournament format rewards the top 4 seeds with triple (seeds 1and 2) and double (seeds 3 and 4) byes. But if you're seeded 5-12, you're fighting a massive uphill battle as you have to win 5 games in 6 days. Playing 5 baseball games in 6 days would be taxing, let alone playing basketball in that time frame. Basketball is not meant to be played like that. If Kentucky had to do that against its peers I'd expect them to lose to a team in the later rounds fresh and rested. Kudos for the MAC for setting up this format as it makes the MAC regular season actually count for something more now. But in this format, if you don't get one of the top 4 seeds, good luck trying to win to even advance as far as one of the byes would have gotten you. Ohio won it as a 9-seed a few years ago, but that was in the old format and they had to play less games than they would now. To see a team seeded 5-12 now do it woukd be remarkable.

No question that basketball wasn't meant to be played that way, but it has been done before. (with a NCAA Championship as a second act)

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=310710097" target="_blank

Falconwriter wrote:Given how BG lost all these games to close out the stretch run (so many losses at home, and close losses) -- I think it's pretty obvious the culture of losing isn't gone yet from the team. And probably won't be until a majority of the players were those brought in by Coach Jans and had some time to learn his system.

I don't believe you can under-estimate just how damaging all the Orr years were. The more time that goes on, and with a chance to reflect on those teams vs. what we're seeing now, strengthens my view that it will take some time to totally remove the black cloud from this program. Folding like a bad patio chair at home, when you have an opportunity to basically sew up the East title; and losing the way they've lost down the stretch, all point to mental issues, more than physical.

Coach has done a masterful job of taking players Orr had no clue how to use, and at least put them in a position to win games. That they couldn't finish is more a reflection of their lack of confidence than probably anything else.

It's hard to hear, especially when this team came so close, but PATIENCE is needed. Let's let Coach Jans get a few more of his players into his system, and see how things shake out. You'd have to be blind not to have noticed the leaps this team made in a season when basically NOTHING was expected of them. That just reinforces the feeling that we are seeing the start of something special.

Hopefully the students and other local fans will begin recognizing that soon and respond. That black cloud has also kept The Stroh from being a first class home court, as it will take a while before people actually believe in the program again.

Like I said: it's hard to gauge just how much damage keeping Orr that long caused to this program...but it was significant. Shame on the Athletic Department of not acting sooner.

This is very good commentary. It's tragic that the program had to keep Orr an extra year just to save $168,000. Good financial accounting, bad business.

Clarke, Henderson, and Parker, all quite talented, would be playing at entirely different levels this year had they played their careers for someone like Jans.

Winning teams win because of what the players demand of themselves, and this is driven by expectations set everyday by coaches. A culture of "winning" is something that must be learned. We've certainly made progress, and it would be awesome if Clarke and Henderson could stick around another year to benefit developmentally.

Things happen for a reason. We haven't seen Worrell, we were never getting Chris Jans in 2013, and we didn't have the money to get him in 2013 anyway.
We are one or two players away from a great program. Sure, we need to replace the seniors, but we saw Gomez come alive. He needs to work on his play in the paint, Denny needs to work on his shot, and the point guards need to work on ball handling and shooting. Delvo could become an awesome player if he can cut his fouls and work on his shot from the free throw line.

How long has it been when we're excited to start the next season and not for the same reasons we were excited in the past 6 years? It still pizzes me off about Zach Denny and watching James Erger, Jordon Crawford, and Luke Kraus stumble and fumble their way on the court while Denny, Holmes and Sealy sat on the bench, or pressing Clarke into the point because we didn't have anybody else to play that position. Face it, Louie Orr was doomed the day George Jackson got canned and he was too (pick the term) to get someone else like Jackson.

Nice guys finish last....see Orr's picture next to the definition of that.

HoopsFan

It's

BleedOrange wrote:

Falconwriter wrote:Given how BG lost all these games to close out the stretch run (so many losses at home, and close losses) -- I think it's pretty obvious the culture of losing isn't gone yet from the team. And probably won't be until a majority of the players were those brought in by Coach Jans and had some time to learn his system.

I don't believe you can under-estimate just how damaging all the Orr years were. The more time that goes on, and with a chance to reflect on those teams vs. what we're seeing now, strengthens my view that it will take some time to totally remove the black cloud from this program. Folding like a bad patio chair at home, when you have an opportunity to basically sew up the East title; and losing the way they've lost down the stretch, all point to mental issues, more than physical.

Coach has done a masterful job of taking players Orr had no clue how to use, and at least put them in a position to win games. That they couldn't finish is more a reflection of their lack of confidence than probably anything else.

It's hard to hear, especially when this team came so close, but PATIENCE is needed. Let's let Coach Jans get a few more of his players into his system, and see how things shake out. You'd have to be blind not to have noticed the leaps this team made in a season when basically NOTHING was expected of them. That just reinforces the feeling that we are seeing the start of something special.

Hopefully the students and other local fans will begin recognizing that soon and respond. That black cloud has also kept The Stroh from being a first class home court, as it will take a while before people actually believe in the program again.

Like I said: it's hard to gauge just how much damage keeping Orr that long caused to this program...but it was significant. Shame on the Athletic Department of not acting sooner.

This is very good commentary. It's tragic that the program had to keep Orr an extra year just to save $168,000. Good financial accounting, bad business.

Clarke, Henderson, and Parker, all quite talented, would be playing at entirely different levels this year had they played their careers for someone like Jans.

Winning teams win because of what the players demand of themselves, and this is driven by expectations set everyday by coaches. A culture of "winning" is something that must be learned. We've certainly made progress, and it would be awesome if Clarke and Henderson could stick around another year to benefit developmentally.

Interesting. I believe it's horrible commentary. This has been going on since I started following the program in '93. Louis Orr = Dan Dakich = Jim Larranaga. Someone older than me will probably agree that it's been going on since before that, but it's not something I can corroborate.

Louis Orr way worse than Larranaga or Dakich, but anyway. Record worse, interest in program worse, and overall product worse.

Who cares? For fucks sake none of them are here any more. None of them matter any longer when discussing the future of BG basketball. For the life of me...I will never understand the "I like the current guy, but man those guys before him sucked" mentality. What purpose does beating tat dead horse serve?