BG vs other mid-major teams

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:25 pm

This may have been discussed before but watching Wichita State and Gonzaga made me think.

Gonzaga has been to 20 straight conference championship games and made NCAA Tournament 17 of last 20 years and about to go to at least Sweet 16. Wichita State been a mid major power for 10 plus years. Dayton plays in a non power conference so still mid-major and they do very well. Butler made it to 2 straight final fours as a mid-major.

What does Gonzaga, Butler, Dayton and Wichita State have in common. No D1 FBS football team. In the MAC Toledo, Kent, Akron and Ohio have been better than BG pretty much since the 1990s with a few exceptions. What do they all have in common. No D1 hockey team. In fact the 4 major teams Gonzaga, Butler, Dayton and Wichita don't have hockey or football.

I'm not saying cut hockey or drop down to FCS in football BUT do you think BG would do better in basketball if it were to drop football down a level or eliminate hockey. Does BG have too many D1 sports to support and basketball constantly suffers?

Class of 61 · Post by **Class of 61** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:08 pm

So if we drop to FCS w/ fewer scholarships, this will help basketball how? All teams have same # of schol. , so we couldn't add one more. Dropping hockey - same thing. I would agree that crowd sizes MIGHT increase, but how many hockey fans would swing over to basketball?
Hockey vs basketball crowds now goes strongly in favor of ice sport. ( right Marta and Rick).
Thats the biggest conflict now. Not sure your comparison w/ the teams you mentioned is totally valid. But i DO get your point.

gmartin · Post by **gmartin** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:24 pm

FCS in football = less salaries. Less travel saves money. Less salaries on assistant coaches. Eliminate hockey saves that revenue. People from hockey may attend more basketball games generating more revenue.

By creating more revenue and saving money in football you can put more resources to basketball.

Do I want to cut hockey or go to FCS, ABSOLUTELY NOT. But it is hard to ignore that of the mid majors that do well in basketball they don't have hockey or a FBS football program.

BGSU33 · Post by **BGSU33** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:54 pm

Come on guys, I can't even entertain this topic. When are we going to stop making excuses for this piss-poor men's basketball program??? This is the men's basketball team's problem, not the rest of the athletic department or other teams' problems. The basketball program has only itself to blame for its issues. Period. This program has the same allotment of scholarships available to use as all 350+ of the other D-1 teams do. It's also playing in a brand new arena, and....AND....it benefits from a donor who has given MILLIONS of dollars to its cause!!! So can we cut the BS already?! This isn't about cutting hockey or dropping football FCS to save a program that simply can't save itself. Neither hockey or football are playing in brand-new venues and neither one of them have a donor who just handed over a winning Mega Millions lottery ticket to them either.

In the last decade alone every other MAC East team besides BG has won the MAC Basketball Tournament at least once - with several doing it multiple times. BG hasn't even played in the title game in that time and has never, ever won the event in its history. That's beyond unacceptable. Further, both Miami and WMU have hockey and both have won MAC titles in football and basketball. BG women's basketball certainly has won titles too to show it can be done at BG. And Christ, to really prove a point here, BG baseball, which does NOT operate on the same level as most of its MAC peers from a scholarship, facility and donation standpoint, won a MAC Tournament Championship just a few years ago itself! There's no room for excuses about why men's basketball can't. It's on them and only them and there's no more excuse for it not happening.

guest44 · Post by **guest44** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:29 am

BG had the coach, and the money, to get as close to attempting to establish a top level basketball program as Bowling Green could. It ended drunk, in a cellphone video taken by BGSU alumni.

Clubber · Post by **Clubber** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:11 am

To answer the original question. Yes. I think the money we spend on hockey alone prevents us from being good in any men's sport outside of FB or BBall. No question all the other sports would benefit from dropping either of those two sports.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:04 am

guest44 wrote:BG had the coach, and the money, to get as close to attempting to establish a top level basketball program as Bowling Green could. It ended drunk, in a cellphone video taken by BGSU alumni.

You should be thanking that BG alum who took the video. Jan's was a major disaster waiting to happen. We got off lucky with a butt grab in a bar. Would you be happier if he had a year or two more and then got behind the wheel and killed someone...or maybe he grabs more than a butt and gets charged criminally (FWIW..guys have been charged for grabbing butts).

How much danger were you willing to put BG as a whole in to keep that drunk around?

FalconTurf · Post by **FalconTurf** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:03 am

The Jans issue should be dead. He was a talented drunk who, as Flipper points out, would have embarrassed us greatly. And if he would have taken us to the NCAA he would have done it on a bigger stage setting the program back even further.

None of the programs make money so the support provided by the university from a couple expensive programs and distributed among the remaining expensive and inexpensive programs would benefit those programs. For example the football program does not bring in more than they spend regardless of what people would like to think.

On the other hand it could even more foolish and we could function like Dayton or Butler running a DI-AA non-scholarship program that plays in a conference that has schools from coast to coast (see Pioneer http://www.pioneer-football.org/pfl/default/) without the resources to be competitive outside your conference.

guest44 · Post by **guest44** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:30 am

No I won't be thanking them for anything. My point was simply Bowling Green had the coach in place who could do what Gmartin basically asked, or as close to it as BG could get. Look at how many guys coaching today have baggage galore. BG would terminate half of the sweet sixteen coaches because winning doesn't really matter as much as it does other places. We all have differing opinions on what the line is. The next discussion regarding him will happen probably in a few short years, when someone takes a chance on him, and he takes a team to the tournament. As far as drinking and driving goes. I do think BG employed a football coach who got a DUI and another citation in one day if I'm not mistaken. I corrected that it was not 2 DUI's.

FalconTurf · Post by **FalconTurf** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:56 am

I'm not sure who was going to be playing for the abusive drunk - players were cashing out on him before the conference tournament. He assembled a great staff but, how long were they staying. I'll take that collection of assistants with a sober organized motivator who can recruit with limited coaching ability and any program wins. Not sure if it gets us there but we would be in the hunt.

Currently we have a good staff that is heading in the right direction. I'm willing to give them time to see if they can erase 49 years of futility. Who are we as a fan base that's waited this long to expect instant results.

CrazyFan · Post by **CrazyFan** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:11 pm

You guys are just so clueless.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:53 pm

We didn't have that coach in place...we had an out of control drunk who flamed out. Thankfully, he didn't completely bury the program in the process.

CrazyFan · Post by **CrazyFan** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:56 pm

Flipper wrote:We didn't have that coach in place...we had an out of control drunk who flamed out. Thankfully, he didn't completely bury the program in the process.

Rollo83 · Post by **Rollo83** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:40 pm

I loved what Jans did on the court. If he was going to lose some players after that first year, so be it. He was changing the culture of losing and it would have been very interesting to see what he would have done the last two years, once he recruited players that totally bought into his system. I think he was as close to a coach that could have turned this program around that we've had in the last 20+ years. Unfortunately, that never materialized.

Having said all that, I totally get that his off-the-court behavior was unacceptable, and his firing was our only option. Its too bad we can't find a guy that can win and be a great representative of the school. I got to believe there is a guy out there like that.

But if someone does do it at BG, they won't be here long because they'll be plenty of schools asking him to come and do the same thing at their school for a lot more money than we can pay him. The life of a mid-major...

Clubber · Post by **Clubber** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:34 pm

Flipper wrote:We didn't have that coach in place...we had an out of control drunk who flamed out. Thankfully, he didn't completely bury the program in the process.

"out of control drunk"

I'm not sure if he deserved another chance or not here...but that is reckless.
If I were a mid major program's AD I'd take him in a heartbeat.

BG vs other mid-major teams

BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams

Re: BG vs other mid-major teams