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hammb wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:24 am It's getting to be truly awful. The one thing Huger's teams have historically been decent at is keeping turnovers down. That was the "upside" to our pound the ball lack of passing/cutting. When you remove the elements of anticipating where your teammates will be for passes you lessen the turnovers caused by errant passes, etc. There were years where I would bemoan our lack of ball movement but at least we were not turning it over too much.

This year we're averaging over 17 turnovers per game which is just horrendous.

I remember reading several threads on here this offseason about how we should still be good, maybe even improved, because now we can run a more varied offense and not just ask Turner to be LeBron. I think most of us that watch BG closely (and remember Huger years pre-JT) were skeptical, and all of our worse fears are coming to fruition. This pound the ball, dribble handoff bullshit IS Huger's offense. And when you remove a dynamic player capable of creating shots, what you get is a slopfest. Suddenly shooters cannot shoot. Do we really think Plowden & Diggs forgot how to shoot? Hell no, they just don't get decent looks anymore. (Even my wife laughed last night when I said OMG, they passed the ball, on a kickout to Diggs, who splashed it). The turnovers are coming in bunches because we are not talented enough to be attacking off the dribble. Not against Ohio State, not against WCU, and hell not even really against Fairmont St.

I didn't see any of our transfers play a minute before they got here. But they're mostly all looking like guys who were able to put up some decent stats in a team construct, but jumped at the opportunity to be "the man" in an offense that basically says, "here's the ball, score it". Sure, lots of players are excited to play in a system like that. But I haven't seen a single one of them show more than a slight flash or two that they are capable of doing that with any consistency. At least Curtis & Matheny show the ability to occasionally win off the dribble AND use it to get teammates involved from time to time, but both are inefficient as all hell.

This team is a rudderless ship. Basketball always looks easier when you have a Turner or a Pardon. Somebody that you can put the ball in his hands every single possession and know he can single handedly find a shot for himself or somebody else. Having that guy covers up a LOT of warts, but to win ball games at this level it's not an absolute necessity. Unfortunately, we don't have that guy, and as somebody who has watched every minute we've played up until the final 5 mins or so last night (was bedtime for the kiddo), it is painfully clear we are doing nothing to compensate for that.

Globetrotter wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:09 am

hammb wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:24 am It's getting to be truly awful. The one thing Huger's teams have historically been decent at is keeping turnovers down. That was the "upside" to our pound the ball lack of passing/cutting. When you remove the elements of anticipating where your teammates will be for passes you lessen the turnovers caused by errant passes, etc. There were years where I would bemoan our lack of ball movement but at least we were not turning it over too much.

This year we're averaging over 17 turnovers per game which is just horrendous.

I remember reading several threads on here this offseason about how we should still be good, maybe even improved, because now we can run a more varied offense and not just ask Turner to be LeBron. I think most of us that watch BG closely (and remember Huger years pre-JT) were skeptical, and all of our worse fears are coming to fruition. This pound the ball, dribble handoff bullshit IS Huger's offense. And when you remove a dynamic player capable of creating shots, what you get is a slopfest. Suddenly shooters cannot shoot. Do we really think Plowden & Diggs forgot how to shoot? Hell no, they just don't get decent looks anymore. (Even my wife laughed last night when I said OMG, they passed the ball, on a kickout to Diggs, who splashed it). The turnovers are coming in bunches because we are not talented enough to be attacking off the dribble. Not against Ohio State, not against WCU, and hell not even really against Fairmont St.

I didn't see any of our transfers play a minute before they got here. But they're mostly all looking like guys who were able to put up some decent stats in a team construct, but jumped at the opportunity to be "the man" in an offense that basically says, "here's the ball, score it". Sure, lots of players are excited to play in a system like that. But I haven't seen a single one of them show more than a slight flash or two that they are capable of doing that with any consistency. At least Curtis & Matheny show the ability to occasionally win off the dribble AND use it to get teammates involved from time to time, but both are inefficient as all hell.

This team is a rudderless ship. Basketball always looks easier when you have a Turner or a Pardon. Somebody that you can put the ball in his hands every single possession and know he can single handedly find a shot for himself or somebody else. Having that guy covers up a LOT of warts, but to win ball games at this level it's not an absolute necessity. Unfortunately, we don't have that guy, and as somebody who has watched every minute we've played up until the final 5 mins or so last night (was bedtime for the kiddo), it is painfully clear we are doing nothing to compensate for that.

100% agree

footballguy51 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:16 am

Globetrotter wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:09 am

hammb wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:24 am It's getting to be truly awful. The one thing Huger's teams have historically been decent at is keeping turnovers down. That was the "upside" to our pound the ball lack of passing/cutting. When you remove the elements of anticipating where your teammates will be for passes you lessen the turnovers caused by errant passes, etc. There were years where I would bemoan our lack of ball movement but at least we were not turning it over too much.

This year we're averaging over 17 turnovers per game which is just horrendous.

I remember reading several threads on here this offseason about how we should still be good, maybe even improved, because now we can run a more varied offense and not just ask Turner to be LeBron. I think most of us that watch BG closely (and remember Huger years pre-JT) were skeptical, and all of our worse fears are coming to fruition. This pound the ball, dribble handoff bullshit IS Huger's offense. And when you remove a dynamic player capable of creating shots, what you get is a slopfest. Suddenly shooters cannot shoot. Do we really think Plowden & Diggs forgot how to shoot? Hell no, they just don't get decent looks anymore. (Even my wife laughed last night when I said OMG, they passed the ball, on a kickout to Diggs, who splashed it). The turnovers are coming in bunches because we are not talented enough to be attacking off the dribble. Not against Ohio State, not against WCU, and hell not even really against Fairmont St.

I didn't see any of our transfers play a minute before they got here. But they're mostly all looking like guys who were able to put up some decent stats in a team construct, but jumped at the opportunity to be "the man" in an offense that basically says, "here's the ball, score it". Sure, lots of players are excited to play in a system like that. But I haven't seen a single one of them show more than a slight flash or two that they are capable of doing that with any consistency. At least Curtis & Matheny show the ability to occasionally win off the dribble AND use it to get teammates involved from time to time, but both are inefficient as all hell.

This team is a rudderless ship. Basketball always looks easier when you have a Turner or a Pardon. Somebody that you can put the ball in his hands every single possession and know he can single handedly find a shot for himself or somebody else. Having that guy covers up a LOT of warts, but to win ball games at this level it's not an absolute necessity. Unfortunately, we don't have that guy, and as somebody who has watched every minute we've played up until the final 5 mins or so last night (was bedtime for the kiddo), it is painfully clear we are doing nothing to compensate for that.

100% agree

I was watching on TV last night. Dreadful. Then we kicked the ball out to Diggs for that nice open 3-point shot and I thought, "Hey, that worked really well! We should keep doing something like that!" As if they were my son, the team ignored me and did the exact opposite. I ended up occupying my mind doing other things while the game was going on and only half listened. Our defense was really solid to start the game, and actually fairly good for the majority of the game. However, OSU figured out how to work through it and our offense did very little the entire game.

As for the constant dribble handoff, the one time we faked that handoff and kept going, we all of a sudden got some space from the defender. Why do we always handoff? Just like play action in football, the faked handoff helps to keep defenses honest.

fanatic13 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:16 am Defense was not decent a few aggressive turnovers made it look they were doing something. We allowed 89 points and 46 in the paint and made it too easy once we got down. Osu shot 37.5% on threes so it wasn't like they were lights out in that department and only 5 free throws made

BPardonMyTake wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:52 am

footballguy51 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:16 am

Globetrotter wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:09 am

hammb wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:24 am It's getting to be truly awful. The one thing Huger's teams have historically been decent at is keeping turnovers down. That was the "upside" to our pound the ball lack of passing/cutting. When you remove the elements of anticipating where your teammates will be for passes you lessen the turnovers caused by errant passes, etc. There were years where I would bemoan our lack of ball movement but at least we were not turning it over too much.

This year we're averaging over 17 turnovers per game which is just horrendous.

I remember reading several threads on here this offseason about how we should still be good, maybe even improved, because now we can run a more varied offense and not just ask Turner to be LeBron. I think most of us that watch BG closely (and remember Huger years pre-JT) were skeptical, and all of our worse fears are coming to fruition. This pound the ball, dribble handoff bullshit IS Huger's offense. And when you remove a dynamic player capable of creating shots, what you get is a slopfest. Suddenly shooters cannot shoot. Do we really think Plowden & Diggs forgot how to shoot? Hell no, they just don't get decent looks anymore. (Even my wife laughed last night when I said OMG, they passed the ball, on a kickout to Diggs, who splashed it). The turnovers are coming in bunches because we are not talented enough to be attacking off the dribble. Not against Ohio State, not against WCU, and hell not even really against Fairmont St.

I didn't see any of our transfers play a minute before they got here. But they're mostly all looking like guys who were able to put up some decent stats in a team construct, but jumped at the opportunity to be "the man" in an offense that basically says, "here's the ball, score it". Sure, lots of players are excited to play in a system like that. But I haven't seen a single one of them show more than a slight flash or two that they are capable of doing that with any consistency. At least Curtis & Matheny show the ability to occasionally win off the dribble AND use it to get teammates involved from time to time, but both are inefficient as all hell.

This team is a rudderless ship. Basketball always looks easier when you have a Turner or a Pardon. Somebody that you can put the ball in his hands every single possession and know he can single handedly find a shot for himself or somebody else. Having that guy covers up a LOT of warts, but to win ball games at this level it's not an absolute necessity. Unfortunately, we don't have that guy, and as somebody who has watched every minute we've played up until the final 5 mins or so last night (was bedtime for the kiddo), it is painfully clear we are doing nothing to compensate for that.

100% agree

I was watching on TV last night. Dreadful. Then we kicked the ball out to Diggs for that nice open 3-point shot and I thought, "Hey, that worked really well! We should keep doing something like that!" As if they were my son, the team ignored me and did the exact opposite. I ended up occupying my mind doing other things while the game was going on and only half listened. Our defense was really solid to start the game, and actually fairly good for the majority of the game. However, OSU figured out how to work through it and our offense did very little the entire game.

As for the constant dribble handoff, the one time we faked that handoff and kept going, we all of a sudden got some space from the defender. Why do we always handoff? Just like play action in football, the faked handoff helps to keep defenses honest.

Agreed, I thought we had really active hands the first 12-15 minutes and were able to create some turnovers defensively as we won the turnover battle for majority of the first half. Unfortunately, those turnovers turn into transition layup attempts which is somehow a negative on our team. Here's a fun fact, you don't actually have to sprint to the hoop and throw up some bs around the rim just because you got a steal, you have the ability to kick it out or heck, even slow it down and let your offense catch up with you! Offense stinks but it's our uncanny ability to look like we are fighting the rim while trying to make layups.


I actually think defensively we look ok, especially considering we haven't had Fields yet. Offense stinks, very stinky.

Roll Along! wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:15 pm This season has been an absolute dumpster fire so far, there is NO doubt about that. But I'm not throwing in the towel just yet on this season.

Whatever criticism you may have with Huger, BG has had its best and longest stretch of quality teams with him leading since maybe the 1960s (I know, you old-timers will claim we were better in the 80s or 90s and the MAC was better then -- whatever, spare me). He has flaws, but don't we all. Regardless, In Huger I Trust. Maybe this year turns into a similar year to when we lost to Cleveland State and then turned things around. I certainly am not jumping off the ship after 2 road losses, no matter how horrific they were. But it definitely isn't the type of start I was hoping to see!

Globetrotter wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:25 pm

Roll Along! wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:15 pm This season has been an absolute dumpster fire so far, there is NO doubt about that. But I'm not throwing in the towel just yet on this season.

Whatever criticism you may have with Huger, BG has had its best and longest stretch of quality teams with him leading since maybe the 1960s (I know, you old-timers will claim we were better in the 80s or 90s and the MAC was better then -- whatever, spare me). He has flaws, but don't we all. Regardless, In Huger I Trust. Maybe this year turns into a similar year to when we lost to Cleveland State and then turned things around. I certainly am not jumping off the ship after 2 road losses, no matter how horrific they were. But it definitely isn't the type of start I was hoping to see!

The problem is the solution. Does anyone trust this coaching staff to figure out anything other than chuck up a 3 as the shot clock expires?