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Many people rip John Floyd on this forum. I do not claim he is a great athlete but he is solid. As a SOPHMORE and in his first year of action at bg he was 2nd in the Mac in assists (1st in Mac games only). As a pg I would think this is what you would want. He is completely unselfish (except at the end of the game when it is time to shoot free throws, but he does make them.) I saw enough selfishness in 03-04 from our guards that it made me sick, yes we finished 14-17 (sorry had it wrong last post) that year. This year we were 18-11 with Floyd being the only significant addition. Vandermeer played when we lost Fitch, but the team was never the same (No fault of Vandermeer, but Fitch allowed us to play a small line up that people couldn't match up with.) Floyd is not a quick defender that is obvious, but based on last year (big assist numbers, record turnaround, and big shots against buffalo and toledo) I would say he had a solid sophmore campaign, it will be interesting to see what he does this year.

Whoa. deja vu.

I guess I am "hard on Floyd" in the same vein the you, commonsense, seem to be hard on Lefeld. You stick up for Lenny implying that there should be no comparison between Lenny and Lefeld.

Well I guess I am used to Antonio Daniels and Brandon Pardon being my point guard and while Floyd tries to make no look passes and drive the lane he often times turns it over or just gets his feet going too fast and looks like the tazmanian devil.

Again, this is all opinion based, the very essence of what internet message boards are designed to do- let people share their opinions. If it irks you that someone makes a statement you don't agree with it you should not let it bother you so much as that is the poster's position and solely that of the poster.

No, Floyd is definitely no Antonio Daniels which you seem to be used to (He has been gone 8 years). He may not be Brandon Pardon either (Brandon was a special player), but his numbers compared to Pardon at the same age are almost identical. Much the opposite for Lenny and Lefeld. In no way is this a slam on Lefeld, but it is factual. Time will tell if Floyd can be as good as Pardon, that is a high level of play, but as of right now they are on the same pace.

commonsense wrote:No, Floyd is definitely no Antonio Daniels which you seem to be used to (He has been gone 8 years). He may not be Brandon Pardon either (Brandon was a special player), but his numbers compared to Pardon at the same age are almost identical. Much the opposite for Lenny and Lefeld. In no way is this a slam on Lefeld, but it is factual. Time will tell if Floyd can be as good as Pardon, that is a high level of play, but as of right now they are on the same pace.

Floyd is average. He is no Brandon Pardon, nor will he be. Forget it. The ability isn't there. If you believe otherwise, you'll need to change your username.

Floyd made some tough, gritty plays and made some big shots. He plays with heart, protects the ball, knows that offense, and has good upper body strength. I'm not that impressed by last year's assist numbers b/c he had JA & JR to pass to. (Assist statistics are generally poor, unreliable indicator for a point guard's effectiveness anyway.) However, for a D1 point guard, Floyd is slow and proved to be defensive liability at times. And, unfortunately, he doesn't compensate for that lack of speed with a good outside shot (38% last year). Furthermore, he forced too many wild passes and drives that resulted in turnovers and easy transition baskets. (That's something we should expect improvement on, although that improvement wasn't evident at last Saturday's game.)

He'll be a very important, stabilizing influence this year. Floyd can provide floor leadership and fill a role that I call a "closer" -- the type of guy you want on the floor late in a close game. While I expect Floyd to a very meaningful role on this year's team, it's is unrealistic to expect BG to become positioned as a MAC contender with him getting 30+ minutes per game. I'm hoping to see him in the guard rotation for 10-15 minutes per game, being groomed for a long career in coaching.

Hopefully, I'm selling him short. I think DD likes him, and that is what actually matters.

I pick on Floyd, because he is NOT, as you say, a solid player. He's below average. He racks up a ton of assists because he's the PG in a motion offense. He's got the ball in his hands a LOT opportunities for assists. His assist:TO ratio was under 1.8. Like his many opportunities had him 2nd in the league in assists, he was also second in the league in TOs, not exactly good, IMO.

As for his passing, which is just mediocre when you put his turnover numbers up as well, I'm not just into stats. I watched almost every single home game last year, went to our tourney game, and also went on a couple road trips. The guy does not make the pass that makes you say, "OH" very damn often. VERY rarely, like maybe once or twice a game. His turnovers, OTOH, are the kind that make you say "WHAT THE HELL!?" I remember one stretch in a game last year where he threw 3 straight breakaway dunks to the other team. The guy flat out does not see the floor well, and doesn't have the instincts for the position.

I'll comment very quickly on his defense...it's not there. The guy couldn't guard a chair.

Most importantly, what I disliked about his play most of all last year was his shooting, mainly the fact that he does it! The guy had 165 FG attempts last year while shooting a whopping 38%. Hell Steven Wright had one of the coldest streaks that I've ever seen for a shooter and he managed 40% last year! Not to mention he shot an even more eye-popping 27% from 3-point range! That's pathetic! You mention he compares to BP, well BP never had season of worse than 38% from 3 POINT LAND! His worst FG season was 42% BP was a MUCH more consistent shooter than Floyd, and yet Floyd still shoots...WHY!?

I'll tell you why I dog Floyd, it's pretty simple. He shoots too much and doesn't shoot well, he cannot play a lick of defense, and he's turnover prone as all hell. I'll tell you why I dog Floyd, because he isn't any good, and it's a REAL stretch to even call him solid. The guy plays his ass off, no denying his effort, and I love it. He just doesn't have the talent to be a D1 player.

hammb wrote:I pick on Floyd, because he is NOT, as you say, a solid player. He's below average. He racks up a ton of assists because he's the PG in a motion offense. He's got the ball in his hands a LOT opportunities for assists. His assist:TO ratio was under 1.8. Like his many opportunities had him 2nd in the league in assists, he was also second in the league in TOs, not exactly good, IMO.

As for his passing, which is just mediocre when you put his turnover numbers up as well, I'm not just into stats. I watched almost every single home game last year, went to our tourney game, and also went on a couple road trips. The guy does not make the pass that makes you say, "OH" very damn often. VERY rarely, like maybe once or twice a game. His turnovers, OTOH, are the kind that make you say "WHAT THE HELL!?" I remember one stretch in a game last year where he threw 3 straight breakaway dunks to the other team. The guy flat out does not see the floor well, and doesn't have the instincts for the position.

I'll comment very quickly on his defense...it's not there. The guy couldn't guard a chair.

Most importantly, what I disliked about his play most of all last year was his shooting, mainly the fact that he does it! The guy had 165 FG attempts last year while shooting a whopping 38%. Hell Steven Wright had one of the coldest streaks that I've ever seen for a shooter and he managed 40% last year! Not to mention he shot an even more eye-popping 27% from 3-point range! That's pathetic! You mention he compares to BP, well BP never had season of worse than 38% from 3 POINT LAND! His worst FG season was 42% BP was a MUCH more consistent shooter than Floyd, and yet Floyd still shoots...WHY!?

I'll tell you why I dog Floyd, it's pretty simple. He shoots too much and doesn't shoot well, he cannot play a lick of defense, and he's turnover prone as all hell. I'll tell you why I dog Floyd, because he isn't any good, and it's a REAL stretch to even call him solid. The guy plays his ass off, no denying his effort, and I love it. He just doesn't have the talent to be a D1 player.

what he said. Floyd would be best served as a late game foul-shooter and a reserve point guard who knows the offense well. He can be used to spell the starter for 5-10 minutes a game.

As far as his assists, a very large portion of those were simple wing pases to Reimold or Almanson who subsequently buried jumpers. Nothing impressive about that. The game you might be talking about Hammb was the win at Kent State last year. He single-handedly got KSU back into that game. That was not the only game in which he seemed to lose his mind at times with his passing though. Poor decision-making does not make a "solid" point guard.

As others have said -- he plays his ass off which is exactly why DD likes him. Last year we did not have any other options at the point since Stevie is obviously more suited to play the 2. As soon as there is another viable option to play the 1, I think you will see Floyd's pt drop significantly. That can only make us a better team.

Sheesh. I was doing my absolute damnedest to be charitable. I guess that was a waste.

Opie is a decent third guard in the MAC. If he's seeing starter's minutes....you have a problem. If he's seeing 10-15 minutes a game against other bench guys, he's smart enough and talented enough to be useful.

There were many good coments and observations concerning Floyd. The motion offense does yield a pg more assists, the same can be said for turnovers (But not as many as he made). And yes he had moments of "lose your mind" turnovers. I also agree that he is a defensive liability when playing a scoring pg. I would say that there is no reason right now to say Floyd is a 10-15 minutes a game guy. The only new addition at pg is Guerin. At this point I would say Floyd is still our best pg. I also think Floyd is a better shooter than what he showed last year at 38% (bad shooting years happen Mcleod shot 40% his jr. year even as good as he was). Floyd shot 27% from 3, but the year before was 36% at Oakland. I also agree with the fact that he took alot of shots. In his defense the last 6 games of the year the other teams only guarded 2 of our guys and begged the rest of the team to shoot. He was not making, but under normal circumstances last year he was not a gun. He is still the best pg for the team. I would not say Robinson did enough last year to take floyds spot. He was a quicker defender, but 25% 3pt, 37%FT, and 49 ast to 46 TO's will kill the motion offense. If you think the offense has came to a stand still in previous years, lack of an offensive threat like that will be the most frustrating thing you have seen yet. I Still think Floyd is solid (not impresive) and our best pg.

commonsense wrote:...At this point I would say Floyd is still our best pg.

Robinson has tons more PG ability, and we won't see the freshman mistakes out of him. He's much faster and quicker. He's a better shooter. He'll be more reliable running the offense and making passes now that he has a year under his belt. Robinson's issue is his height. Nevertheless, I prefer him to Floyd in a dramatic way.

If not Robinson, then we're better off pulling Samarco, Wright, and Moten off the wing to play point guard than to give starter's minutes to Floyd. The way I see it, there's no reason for Floyd to serious minutes.

Yes, seeing Robinson make those improvements in games this year would be great. He is lacking one major thing. Game experience, there is nothing that can simulate it. We will only be able to see who emerges as the season unfolds. I hope both provide what the team needs.

I cant agree with pulling people off the wing to run the point. It never works. Wright and Lewis proved that, it always sounds nice to do but wing players are not pg's, and thats no knock against but its not natural for them.

BleedOrange wrote: Robinson has tons more PG ability, and we won't see the freshman mistakes out of him. He's much faster and quicker. He's a better shooter. He'll be more reliable running the offense and making passes now that he has a year under his belt. Robinson's issue is his height. Nevertheless, I prefer him to Floyd in a dramatic way.

If not Robinson, then we're better off pulling Samarco, Wright, and Moten off the wing to play point guard than to give starter's minutes to Floyd. The way I see it, there's no reason for Floyd to serious minutes.

I don't necessarily disagree with the assessment on Floyd, but I really don't see Moon Robinson as the answer. I'll give you that he is quicker, but how can you think he is a better shooter? He shot under 40% from the foul line! To top it off he is even more of a defensive liability then Opie. Everytime he comes in the game he gets beat or posted up and reaches and fouls to try to make up for it. Forget his nearly 1-1 assist to turnover ratio which is bad enough, last year he had nearly twice as many fouls as he did points.

Floyd is by no means going to be a first team all MAC point guard, but he was obviously the best option we had last year. He hustles, he does a decent job of running the offense (not great but decent), and he is the guy you want on the foul line at the end of games. I agree that he is a defensive liability and his shooting last year was pretty bad, but unless one of the new guys coming in can take his place, Floyd is the best point guard we have on the team. I see Robinson as a good change of pace guy off the bench, but I don't see him as a guy you want out there for 25 to 30 minutes a night.

Three words:

"Ed Heintschel"

ZiggyZoomba wrote:Three words:

"Ed Heintschel"

Uh....don't ya mean two words Grant? Anyway on pg issue, yes Robinson is quicker than Floyd but not amazingly fast. He's going to have problems guarding these 6'2 , 6'3 and 6'4 pg's that we'll face from time to time. When we face a team with those little pg's that gave us fits last year then you put Perrick out ther to guard those guys, I don't think Perrick is startign pg matieral size aside. I'm looking for either Floyd or Samarco to be the starter there.