The season ended Cavs thread...and NBA discussion in general

[Warthog]

The reported package actually is a ton more that I would think. J.J. Varejao, Delonte, and Parker + a pick.

I believe the deal would include EITHER Varejao OR JJ, not both.

[Warthog]

I still think LeBron wants to stay BADLY because of his ego. He knows that right now he is a hero and is adored in his hometown. He also knows that if he were to leave he could probably never show his face in his hometown again. Say what you will, but that has value...especially for somebody who seems to care as much about his public image as anything else. Still, I think LeBron also wants to win and realizes that unless they can work something out for Bosh winning isn't really gonna happen in Cleveland.

Should be interesting.

Along those lines, this whole 'Tor would do a S & T with Cleve for Bosh' kind of takes some heat off James. If that deal doesn't happen and he decides to leave, now he can point to Bosh, Cleveland management, and Toronto management as being the reason he left. Makes it look like LeBron wants to stay but because of the other guys, he has to leave if he wants to win.

[hammb]

The reported package actually is a ton more that I would think. J.J. Varejao, Delonte, and Parker + a pick. The pick would be garbage, but that's a ton of Cleveland's depth gone, especially with all the injury prone-ness/age of the rest of the roster. I think this paints a pretty clear picture of LeBron telling the Cavs "I want to stay, but if you can't seriously improve this team right now, I'm leaving."

Cavs are in desperation mode as they should be, and for their sake they better hope Bosh changes his mind on Cleveland. The poor Cavs may just be too geographically challenged to live.

The article on ESPN said JJ and/or Verejao, then the rest. I would think that Cleveland would, at the very least, try to keep one of those two. Even if they couldn't though, it really doesn't matter. I'd trade the entire roster for Bosh and play 5 on 2 if I had to.

The Cavs better get out the sell job to Bosh real quick. I'm thinking that's the only way they keep LeBron. No LeBron and you may as well fold up shop. They'd lose all the fans they gained in LeBron's tenure, and probably quite a few of the fans they actually had before.

[Warthog]

ESPN's John Hollinger: My best Cavs-Raps S&T -- Bosh and Turk for Jamison, West, Moon and Powe. Saves Raps $10 mil, replaces Bosh, dumps Turk.

I couldn't say yes fast enough if that would be accurate.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

Great for Cavs, great for Raptors - doesn't happen unless somebody changes Bosh's mind. The Raptors have a wee bit of leverage if they tell Bosh they won't sign and trade with anybody else, so this is the only way to get your 6th year. No idea how important that is to him - he's still pretty young, so that 6th year probably doesn't mean as much to him as it obviously did to a guy like Joe Johnson.

I was going to say earlier, I don't see how Toronto does it without dumping Turk.

[Warthog]

I was going to say earlier, I don't see how Toronto does it without dumping Turk.

I thought that too. But I think I would take Hedo over Parker/Moon anyway. And Dan Gilbert doesn't care how much he has to pay, so that's why the Cavs can this. And it shows LeBron he will continue to spend the money to bring a championship to Cleveland.

To your point about the extra 30 mil for Bosh, a lot of the media is saying that it is more important to Bosh than it is for Wade or James. Bosh just doesn't have the endorsement deals like the others. So an extra 30 mil guaranteed might be a big deal to him. And I'm thinking he would get more endorsement money playing with James/Wade. So there is that on top of it.

My dream scenario is James staying with Cleveland and convincing Bosh to join him. Wade stays in Miami. Chicago ends up getting nothing after giving away Hinrich.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

I was going to say earlier, I don't see how Toronto does it without dumping Turk.

I thought that too. But I think I would take Hedo over Parker/Moon anyway. And Dan Gilbert doesn't care how much he has to pay, so that's why the Cavs can this. And it shows LeBron he will continue to spend the money to bring a championship to Cleveland.

To your point about the extra 30 mil for Bosh, a lot of the media is saying that it is more important to Bosh than it is for Wade or James. Bosh just doesn't have the endorsement deals like the others. So an extra 30 mil guaranteed might be a big deal to him. And I'm thinking he would get more endorsement money playing with James/Wade. So there is that on top of it.

My dream scenario is James staying with Cleveland and convincing Bosh to join him. Wade stays in Miami. Chicago ends up getting nothing after giving away Hinrich.

Don't forget Salmons and Thomas.

If Bosh and LBJ end up in Cleveland, I really don't think Wade stays in Miami if they can't get Bron, Bosh, or obviously STAT. He'll go to Chicago, and bring Boozer or Lee (please God let it be Lee) with him to compete with Cleveland.

The 30 mil is also constantly overstated. Through 5 years, the difference is 4 mil. It's the 6th year that adds the rest. This is a big deal for Joe Johnson, since his wheels will start to fall off in 2-3 years, but for a younger guy like Bosh who still has 1 more mega-contract in front of him, it's less of a deal-breaker.

However, the injury risk and uncertainty of the next CBA make the 6th guaranteed year more important, so that has to be weighed also. It's a big decision, and all these guys are attention whores, and that's why we're seeing it drag on like this.

Agreed on the Cavs - they'll take anything the Raptors want to give them if it means keeping LeBron, which means Turk is attached to Bosh at the hip.

[hammb]

It's a big decision, and all these guys are attention whores, and that's why we're seeing it drag on like this.

No truer words could ever be spoken about the big 3 of this NBA FA class. Yeah, it's a big decision, and yes they're all superstars. Still, the biggest thing is that they like seeing themselves be the first thing talked about every day on Sportscenter.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

In all my life, I have never seen so many "sourced" rumors put out by legitimate journalists that are directly contradicted by other "sourced" rumors put out by other legitimate journalists.

This is nuckin futs. It has to end - I need to know how happy I'll be with my next 5 years of NBA fandom.

[Lord_Byron]

For all the talk and posturing throughout this whole process about winning and championships and playing with his buddies, it seems more obvious than ever that Lebron enjoys being Lebron more than anything else in the world.

Although I'm very interested in the outcome of the Lebron mania, I'm not really sure if I want to tune in tomorrow and feed the beast.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... _will.html

I do know that I've got an 11 year-old in the house who is hanging on this every day. She even had her grandmother make her a compression sleeve so she can wear it in her summer hoops league.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

Wade and Bosh to Miami. LBJ or bust for Chicago now. s**t.

[hammb]

For all the talk and posturing throughout this whole process about winning and championships and playing with his buddies, it seems more obvious than ever that Lebron enjoys being Lebron more than anything else in the world.

That's exactly what I've said all along about him.

I still think that he REALLY wants to stay in Cleveland because he knows it's imperative to keeping his image. If he bolts he pretty much won't be able to show his face in Cleveland/Akron again. I really think that is a pretty big thing to him and his ego. He also knows, right now, that pretty much everybody loves him...he's a megastar with tons of media appeal. If he bolts to another city he's going to have a large segment of fans that absolutely HATE him. Obviously tons of Cavs fans will hate him, but I think a lot of casual NBA fans will see him as a mercenary to bolted on his hometown team too.

Either way, I think this whole process has really shown exactly what you say. He's an attention whore and is eating all of this up.

[Warthog]

Wade and Bosh to Miami. LBJ or bust for Chicago now. s**t.

It really feels like Chicago is losing traction here. With the Knicks jumping in and grabbing Amare, it just make it feel more likely that James would go there over Chicago. The Knicks have that big chip of Eddie Curry's expiring contract to use to improve the team more now or wait until next summer when that cap space is free.

The Bulls just don't seem as appealling without Bosh. Sure they could still team a Boozer or Lee with James and Rose. But how much better of a roster is James, Rose, Noah, Boozer/Lee, Gibson, Deng vs James, Jamison, Williams, Hickson, Varejao, West? Add in the coaching experience of Byron Scott vs rookie Thibideau and a spend-anything owner Gilbert vs a save-everything owner like Reinsdorf and I really think the Cleveland situation could be better than Chicago.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

Wade and Bosh to Miami. LBJ or bust for Chicago now. s**t.

It really feels like Chicago is losing traction here. With the Knicks jumping in and grabbing Amare, it just make it feel more likely that James would go there over Chicago. The Knicks have that big chip of Eddie Curry's expiring contract to use to improve the team more now or wait until next summer when that cap space is free.

The Bulls just don't seem as appealling without Bosh. Sure they could still team a Boozer or Lee with James and Rose. But how much better of a roster is James, Rose, Noah, Boozer/Lee, Gibson, Deng vs James, Jamison, Williams, Hickson, Varejao, West? Add in the coaching experience of Byron Scott vs rookie Thibideau and a spend-anything owner Gilbert vs a save-everything owner like Reinsdorf and I really think the Cleveland situation could be better than Chicago.

We'll agree to disagree there, and I'll be right. If he stays in Cleveland, the decision will have very little to do with basketball. Lee/Boozer, Rose, and Noah, would all be the second best player on the Cavs. Lee was 5th in the East in PER last year, and Boozer would have been 6th. We already talked about how much better Noah is than Varejao, and Rose crushes Mo Williams by an even wider margin. Plus, Noah and Rose still have considerable room for improvement, and we know how much better LBJ makes his teammates.

Considering what James did with way less last year, a jump to the Bulls makes them immediate favorites for the title. Cleveland's roster right now is behind at least a couple teams out west, and probably behind Boston, Orlando, and Miami if they can surround those 2 with a good roster.

Like I've said before - take James off the Cavs, and they win maybe 25 games.

[NWLB]

All I can say is that with the LBJ camp getting ESPN to put an hour of their prime-time aside so he can announce where he is going, I have a hard time thinking he stays in Cleveland. I can't see his hype machine getting the most traction out of staying there. Everything he's done has pointed towards making this move a "coming out part" to the nation, after being stuck in Ohio all this time. I think he figures however many Cleveland fans there are, are dwarfed by how many he personally will have, regardless of where he plays. He is his own "brand." Half of Cleveland fans will blame the Cavs and still like James.

I'll guess he's going to New York.