Cleveland Browns 2014

[Warthog]

I think the Browns deserve their own thread now, instead of being buried in the Tigers thread...

Anyone up for a draft do-over yet? What if the Browns would have taken Kyle Fuller instead of Gilbert? And given Hoyer's development, Kelvin Benjamin instead of Johnny Football? Or they could have just taken Watkins and then Bradly Robey later.

Crazy how well they are doing with getting absolutely nothing from TWO first round draft picks.

[Redwingtom]

It might be a tad early to get too excited, but enjoy the easy schedule the next three weeks! (Jacksonville, Oakland & Tampa) They still have to play the Bengals twice and they finish with a brutal four-game stretch that could easily land them at 0-4.

They finish at home against Indianapolis and Cincinnati and then at Carolina and at Baltimore.

[hammb]

The Browns definitely deserve their own thread.

Pettine is doing a bang up job in getting everybody to buy into his attitude and schemes...finally a coach that is about professionalism, accountability, and making guys EARN what they get. LOVE that he deactivated his 3rd round pick this week as a wake up call. I also love that he went with the steady vet QB rather than playing the rook that everybody was clamoring for. He's also got undrafted rookie free agents getting playing time at CB over his top 10 draft pick right now.

How many regimes have we been through where all of those positions would have been gifted to the youngsters and we'd be living with all of their growing pains!?

Personally, I'm not ready for a draft re-do. Hoyer has developed, but I'm not comfortable giving him a long term commitment at all. I put the offensive success almost solely on Kyle Shanahan (GREAT hire, make him asst. head coach ASAP), and the running game. Hoyer is doing a fine job, but he is still very limited, IMO. Right now all he's really doing is making some on target throws to wide open WRs off play action. He's not as accurate as I'd like, does nothing with his legs, and doesn't have great arm strength either. What he does well is study the opposition, knows where everything is going to be, and he doesn't take too many risks. Unfortunately (as we've seen twice already this year), when you need him to "make a play" he's pretty limited in hitting a tight window, and he's incapable of escaping pressure to make anything happen.

In short, I'm saying if Manziel can find it within himself to watch and learn from what Hoyer does well I think he could be a superstar in this scheme. He just needs to be willing to put in the time and learn.

When thinking about Gilbert/Fuller I think the big question has to do more with scheme than anything. I'm not a huge fan of the Ryan defense that Pettine loves, largely because I think it puts way too much on your CBs in an era where the NFL is making it nearly impossible for them to play tight coverage. Gilbert is struggling, for sure, but would Fuller be any better if he were asked to play press man with 1 high safety as often as Pettine asks? I haven't watched a ton of the Bears but it seems to me they play a lot of cover-2 and cover-3, which the Browns employ very little of.

The bottom line on Gilbert is I think asking for a good rookie year from a CB in this scheme is asking way too much...it's going to take time. And for the first time in forever we have a coach willing to take that time and develop his rookies rather than throw them to the fire and watch another season go up in flames.

I don't think we'll see the playoffs this year. I do think we'll get to 5-3 or 6-2 due to this incredibly weak stretch, but as Tom mentioned the schedule finishes real tough. Either way I think we'll see a lot of progress compared to previous years. I think we'll try to lock Hoyer up for a few years, but Manziel is still the QB of the future, and for the first time in forever we can actually develop him properly behind a capable vet. I think Gilbert's raw talent will play in this scheme, but it was raw talent on draft day, and remains so today. Certainly we'd be better today with Watkins (who is FAR from a world beater thus far) or Benjamin on this offense, but once we get Gordon back I don't think we need those guys. And after watching Roby try to play man coverage at OSU I shudder to think how brutally bad he'd be in our press man scheme.

More than anything I've bought into Pettine. The guy is building up a real culture of accountability and family. This thing will sell, and as the talent develops (if Farmer can keep giving him more) this thing is going to get real good.

[Warthog]

I'd call the Jets and see what the Browns could get from them for Manziel.

[hammb]

I'd call the Jets and see what the Browns could get from them for Manziel.

Trading Manziel would be a colossally stupid and so "Browns" move.

The guy who's playing well now is a FA who only played 3 games last year. You'd then be one play away from Connor Shaw.

And then you're almost assuredly going to be using a pick in the top 3 rounds to take a QB to groom behind Hoyer, even if you DID commit to him for 3-5 years.

Hoyer has still not played 4 quarters of good football in a single game. He still hasn't proven he can make plays when things break down. He has 11 more games to prove he can do those things or I just put a tag on him and trade him if we can get a pick. Ideally I'd like to lock up Hoyer reasonably for a 3-4 years and keep both of them. Manziel isn't real pricey right now.

Not to mention the fact that trading Manziel gives away all your leverage negotiating with Hoyer. You'd be absolutely committed to giving him whatever he asks for in FA, and I'm sorry but I see nothing from him that says he should be a $10+ million/yr player. I see him as Andy Dalton...good enough to take a good cockpit to the playoffs, but never good enough to do anything once you get there.

I have a feeling that there are a lot of people in that Browns FO that agree with me, too. Shanahan is making Hoyer look awesome right now, but I bet he could do the same with Manziel (hell he did it with RGIII and Matt Schaub).

[Warthog]

I said that somewhat jokingly just to see what you would say.

But I do agree it is way too early to just hand the show over to Hoyer. He's done well with a decent offensive line and a running game that makes the play-action passing game open up for him. Not sure that I would ever expect him to be able to take over a game if the running game wasn't working.

[hammb]

I said that somewhat jokingly just to see what you would say.

But I do agree it is way too early to just hand the show over to Hoyer. He's done well with a decent offensive line and a running game that makes the play-action passing game open up for him. Not sure that I would ever expect him to be able to take over a game if the running game wasn't working.

OK...I was gonna say.

Personally I don't want either of them gone. Hoyer is playing well right now and they finally have a situation to actually develop a QB properly...Johnny couldn't be in a better situation to learn, and if he is willing to learn (and Shanny sticks) I don't think there could be a better system for his skillset either.

Like you said, he's done well with a great line and running game, but I don't see him making the plays necessary if a defense can shut those things down. Right now almost all of his yardage seems to be coming off play action to wide open guys. I think being one of the worst NFL QBs in passing for 3rd downs really shows how much worse he looks when he's not throwing off play action.

When he's coming off boots and play action and has guys running free he's found those guys and gotten them the ball. When he's asked to take a drop and fit the ball into a tight window to move the chains (or win games) he's been bad. When they were trying to ice the Ravens game and they stopped the run we couldn't get a single 1st down to win it, because he couldn't get the ball where it needed to be. When we needed a late drive against Pittsburgh we couldn't get a single 1st down to even start a drive.

I have no idea if Manziel will learn well enough to do the things Hoyer is doing now, but if he does, I think he could be a star as his legs would allow him to make plays and start converting more of those 3rd downs that Hoyer really struggles with. I also think that a QB who is a rushing threat always opens things up for your tailbacks, and if you added that additional threat for them our running game could be REALLY scary.

[gmartin]

Time to take away the thread after that terrible team performance.

[kdog27]

Typical Browns. History should have taught us that letdown was coming.

[TG1996]

Any one of us knew "the Browns could easily be 6-2" after these three games really meant "they'll go 1-2 in their next 3, then beat Cincy on the road."

Cleveland-level expectations are still a reality.

And, since Sunday is the last best time to pick a Browns win in my semi-survival pool (Pick every team exactly once during the season, best overall record at the end wins), they're going to lose to the Raiders, too. But they'll beat Tampa Bay the next week, since they'll have let me down the week before.

It's like clockwork. (Clockwork Orange - and Brown?)

[hammb]

Hey the Tampa game is my group's annual outing so I definitely hope they win that one. I expect them to beat the Raiders too, though.

Like we talked about last week Tony, anytime you start EXPECTING things for the Browns they fall apart and look like s**t again. It's like clockwork. I expected a total s**t the bed reality check against the Steelers, but I should have known that after they got through that one it'd be right after that...

What scares me about that game last week is that Hoyer looked exactly what I thought he was in the above posts...as soon as the running game was gone he goes to total hell. His entire season is built PURELY on play action passes. He does a good job recognizing the open man and getting the ball out to him, but he's not accurate and he doesn't have a strong arm. And then when the offense needed HIM to step up and make some plays in obvious passing situations he flat out couldn't do it. That's pretty much been his MO all year, but this was the first time there was no run game to bail him out.

Hopefully the OL will start to gel in Mack's absence and the run game will come back, because we cannot win if we're relying on Brian Hoyer's arm.

[Redwingtom]

NFL teams are just too smart...even the bad ones. Someone always figures you out eventually. it's the teams that can quickly adapt on a game by game basis (or the freak teams that just do one or more things exceptionally well) that survive.

[TG1996]

I just wish I would have used the power of Browns expectations to burn through my Jacksonville pick. I'm running with CLE/TB as my picks this week, should be a fantastic weekend for prayer.

[TG1996]

Well, there's one win out of the three. Glad to see the "second half Browns" show back up and the defense put their foot down. Thought for sure at halftime we were headed down an all-too-familiar road.

Ironically, the Buccaneers totally Brownsed me in my second survivor pick.

[kdog27]

5-3, I'll take it.