Big trouble at the U of T

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:05 am

Schad...the indictment pertains to McDougle..it wouldn't name any other individuals specificallyas a matter of course...I think.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:11 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
Flipper wrote:Depends on what players were "interviewed" in Detroit by Scooters connection....do we know for certain it was just UT players?
I think we have to assume that unless we see an indication otherwise. Don't you?

I don't know if I would assume that. As people look closer at this, they might uncover other involvement at other universities.

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:31 am

orangeandbrown wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:
Flipper wrote:Depends on what players were "interviewed" in Detroit by Scooters connection....do we know for certain it was just UT players?
I think we have to assume that unless we see an indication otherwise. Don't you?
I don't know if I would assume that. As people look closer at this, they might uncover other involvement at other universities.

"Assume" is a bit strong, but it seems to me it would be a bit difficult for Mr. McDougle or the people he had cultivated at Toledo to have the kind of standing relationships with players at other universities it would take to make something happen.

Imagine if McDougle would have cold called P.J. Pope on something like this. I imagine half the Falcon football team and a couple of coaches would hear about a call like that within a couple of hours -- once Pope finally stopped hooting in derision.

So, for this to ever get beyond Toledo, there would have to be relationships that were in place before college, it seems to me: A buddy of McDougle's at East Cleveland Shaw who went on to play for another university? A cousin? That kind of thing, and the same for the fellas McDougle was working with at Toledo.

In other words, I'm not laying awake at night about it.

That said, on the small chance this went beyond Toledo, it would be the worst PR disaster in the history of our conference.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:41 am

If Scooter was the only guy involved as a middle man... I'm not assuming he's the only guy out there...he's just the only guy indicted.

What concerns me most is the discussion on the "gaming" sites that have been linked here (and elsewhere) There were betting houses not taking action on MAC games for a couple of years. That is a worrisome bit of info if true.

I guess there's no sense in speculating about this now...we're just going to have to see how this plays out.

Shrakkrocket · Post by **Shrakkrocket** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:44 am

Brown Polyester wrote: More telling (very, very telling) is this man's avatar and the line below his forum name:
http://forum.therx.com/showpost.php?p=3 ... stcount=44
Unless he just changed it and doing so reverts old postings too....we've got someone who knew in November of '06.

it does revert to earlier posts when changed. it said something different yesterday.

theziggies · Post by **theziggies** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:58 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
So, for this to ever get beyond Toledo, there would have to be relationships that were in place before college, it seems to me: A buddy of McDougle's at East Cleveland Shaw who went on to play for another university? A cousin? That kind of thing, and the same for the fellas McDougle was working with at Toledo.

Just for the sake of discussion, there have been players from Shaw High School who have played at BG in recent history. The Charles Sharon story should show that you don't really know any of these players based on what you see from afar.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:58 am

Schadenfreude wrote:In other words, I'm not laying awake at night about it.

Schad, I'm not either, but you're missing my point. Let's say the McDougle thing ends @ UT. Many times, when you start to look for one thing, you find out about other things, even if they aren't directly connected or are even only connected a little. You and I can probably name a couple examples.

redskins4ever · Post by **redskins4ever** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:35 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:That said, on the small chance this went beyond Toledo, it would be the worst PR disaster in the history of our conference.

Oh I don't know about that... we have already been made laughing stocks of college football over hte last 90 days pretty well, not to mention some of the other gafts, this is more like a snow ball rolling down a very very long hill.

jacojdm · Post by **jacojdm** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:43 pm

redskins4ever wrote: Oh I don't know about that... we have already been made laughing stocks of college football over hte last 90 days pretty well, not to mention some of the other gafts, this is more like a snow ball rolling down a very very long hill.

What's a "gaft"?

San Diego Falcon · Post by **San Diego Falcon** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:00 pm

Isn't is easier to point shave when you're giving points instead of getting points on the spread (willing to keep the score within a certain limit as long as you win)? The more home games you have, the more points you give, instead of get, on a net basis. More opportunity to point shave.

Now why did the MAC allow Toledo to keep their 7 home games this year (the most of any team) while taking away home games from others (e.g., BGSU)? No one has ever said....

JoeFalcon · Post by **JoeFalcon** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:52 pm

What's even more stunning is how many people are so quick to associate this salacious UT scandal with the conference as a whole and even BG. There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest this is anything other than a UT/Scooter McDougal/The UT athletes he supposeldy ensnared issue.

This will be a black eye on UT and Scooter McDougal specifically, not 11 other schools and hundreds of other student-athletes that weren't involved. If this were to happen at Michigan, I doubt the reaction of Michigan State fans would include paranoid assertions about what the feds might uncover about their program or conference. If a guy is arrested in a house a few blocks up the street, does the entire neigborhood suddenly consider themselves suspects of some kind?

I though the "Blame BG first" crowd, those who refuse to point out if Amstutz's hair is out of place unless BG has won 30 game in a row, would be silenced by an event like this. Instead, with UT mirred in this mess, not only has schadenfreude (the concept, not the poster) been virtually abandoned, but unrelated and innocent institutions and parties have amazingly been put on the defensive simply by association and geographical proximity. That's not fair. Instead of casting aspersions, the blame and condemnation should be placed where it belongs.

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:36 pm

orangeandbrown wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:In other words, I'm not laying awake at night about it.
Schad, I'm not either, but you're missing my point. Let's say the McDougle thing ends @ UT. Many times, when you start to look for one thing, you find out about other things, even if they aren't directly connected or are even only connected a little. You and I can probably name a couple examples.

After that post, I had to do some things, but I was thinking about it more, and I do think I agree.

It could be that we have had point-shaving situations in this league that have been handled completely internally, but that are somewhat known or rumored about around the conference.

If a bunch of employees at Toledo's athletic department are about to be shown the door -- and Rocket fans are completely merciless right now, they want axes to fall, and they seem to much care that their football coach's nickname is "Toledo" -- then anything they might think they know about other programs could start spilling out.

I've got to feel for a fella like "Toledo" Tom. It is difficult to believe he would have known about or condoned what is being alleged in federal court, and yet his career could go up in smoke over this in a very big hurry.

He may be about to be thrown under a very, very big bus.

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:40 pm

redskins4ever wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:That said, on the small chance this went beyond Toledo, it would be the worst PR disaster in the history of our conference.
Oh I don't know about that... we have already been made laughing stocks of college football over hte last 90 days pretty well, not to mention some of the other gafts, this is more like a snow ball rolling down a very very long hill.

I don't agree. If this went beyond Toledo and to another member of our conference, it would be incomparably bad.

tekekini · Post by **tekekini** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:17 pm

now you are realizing that things can happen to your petty little schools too. You better hope that BG is not invlovled in any way or you will never hear the end of it from me.

You will get everything you deserve.

You will no longer be able to use big school sterotypes against OSU fans.

You are doomed if BG gets named in this is in anyway

Celebrate all you want for now, you may be crying later.

Strouse · Post by **Strouse** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:54 pm

tekekini wrote:now you are realizing that things can happen to your petty little schools too. You better hope that BG is not invlovled in any way or you will never hear the end of it from me.

You will get everything you deserve.

You will no longer be able to use big school sterotypes against OSU fans.

You are doomed if BG gets named in this is in anyway

Celebrate all you want for now, you may be crying later.

Who's celebrating? Sure it's happening at Toledo, but it still hurts the integrity of the sport.