Charles Sharon signed off practice squad

FalconFanatic · Post by **FalconFanatic** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:02 pm

BGSUFootballFan wrote:Chuckie is the man. His play during the preseason should have earned him a playing spot somewhere in the NFL.

As well as Steve Sanders with the Browns....

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:46 pm

FalconFanatic wrote:
BGSUFootballFan wrote:Chuckie is the man. His play during the preseason should have earned him a playing spot somewhere in the NFL.
As well as Steve Sanders with the Browns....

I agree both of them played well in the preseason games.

Just remember preseason games mean below NOTHING in the NFL. Rosters are set based on what the players do in practice every day that you don't see. Of course there is more to it than that as well, what with salaries and the cap and everything.

BGSUFootballFan · Post by **BGSUFootballFan** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:20 pm

I may be the odd man out on this opinion, but I don't like the way the NFL evaluates talent. I think far too many times the bigger, faster, stronger player is selected over the better FOOTBALL player.

tiznow · Post by **tiznow** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:41 pm

BGSUFootballFan wrote:I still never gets old reading my signature on here & looking at that picture of that frickin sweet catch he made to win us that game here at Purdue!

I was in the opposite endzone but had my binocs on it. Sharons's mom was sitting by my wife and I. I love that game. I wish it was on DVD somewhere. Thanks for the pic.

tiznow · Post by **tiznow** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:44 pm

hammb wrote:
FalconFanatic wrote:
BGSUFootballFan wrote:Chuckie is the man. His play during the preseason should have earned him a playing spot somewhere in the NFL.
As well as Steve Sanders with the Browns....
I agree both of them played well in the preseason games.

Just remember preseason games mean below NOTHING in the NFL. Rosters are set based on what the players do in practice every day that you don't see. Of course there is more to it than that as well, what with salaries and the cap and everything.

Agreed. I think Charles was in an uphill battle because the Jags had high round picks that underachieved. Even though he outplayed in the preseason, they kept the higher round picks.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:11 pm

BGSUFootballFan wrote:I may be the odd man out on this opinion, but I don't like the way the NFL evaluates talent. I think far too many times the bigger, faster, stronger player is selected over the better FOOTBALL player.

At the top of the roster I don't think that's true at all. If you can play they'll keep you.

Where this exhibits itself is at the bottom of the roster. The guys that are only going to be special teamers and depth guys. At that point, I agree that they will keep the stronger & faster guy over the more rounded talent, but what would you expect them to do? If you're keeping guys that are only going to play sparingly at best, would you keep the guy who is developed, but doesn't have the tools to ever be a real conributor? Or would you keep the guy who has prototype speed/size, and you need to teach him to run better routes, etc.

At the bottom of the roster it just doesn't make sense to keep the lower ceiling more developed players over the guys who have potential upside. In the end very few of those guys will ever make any impact whatsoever. The NFL guys take their chance with the higher ceiling. I'd agree that guys like Sanders or Sharon would likely contribute more as a 4th/5th WR than many guys holding those roster spots in the NFL today. Problem is most teams never use their 4th/5th WRs (oftentimes they're not even on the gameday rosters), and as such they're keeping the guys who they think might one day make it to one of the top 3 spots.

BGSUFootballFan · Post by **BGSUFootballFan** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:56 am

I agree with that for the most part. But I think it still happens in the upper picks as well. I just don't get geeked over guys like Vernon Davis (sp?) and Mario Williams.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:45 pm

BGSUFootballFan wrote:I agree with that for the most part. But I think it still happens in the upper picks as well. I just don't get geeked over guys like Vernon Davis (sp?) and Mario Williams.

Yeah, I wasn't real high on either of those guys either...although Mario had a pretty good year this year.

I do agree that there is a lot of taking tools over football ability in the draft as well. I was speaking mostly on the basis of defining a roster/playing time.

It's not uncommon for guys to be taken in the draft purely on speed/size, but that is not enough for them to work their way into the gameplan for their teams.

Also, while NFL teams do still draft purely on tools, I think they do a far better job of looking at actual production than the NBA or even MLB do. Those drafts are heavily weighted towards toolsy players.

BGSUFootballFan · Post by **BGSUFootballFan** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:03 pm

hammb wrote:
BGSUFootballFan wrote:I agree with that for the most part. But I think it still happens in the upper picks as well. I just don't get geeked over guys like Vernon Davis (sp?) and Mario Williams.
Yeah, I wasn't real high on either of those guys either...although Mario had a pretty good year this year.

I do agree that there is a lot of taking tools over football ability in the draft as well. I was speaking mostly on the basis of defining a roster/playing time.

It's not uncommon for guys to be taken in the draft purely on speed/size, but that is not enough for them to work their way into the gameplan for their teams.

Also, while NFL teams do still draft purely on tools, I think they do a far better job of looking at actual production than the NBA or even MLB do. Those drafts are heavily weighted towards toolsy players.

Yea I agree with this take a lot more. I guess I'm just different in that I want the guy who is already a complete football player. I don't see why they seem so high on taking risks on the better physical specimen. I mean we are already to the pro level, when the heck is the guy going to learn the actual game? I guess the big part of my difference is that I tend to judge players on how bad their worst performance is going to be. Not how great their potential is. Potential means nothing if you don't fulfill it. Give me the undersized guy that plays his tail off every play no questions asked. I don't care if he doesn't become popular or break records. At least he'd be a solid contributor and a team player.

I don't follow the other pro sports drafts enough to really comment. But I do follow the NBA Draft some and I'd agree that they might even be worse in this case. Why in the heck would you take Darko Milicic (sp?) over Dwayne Wade or Carmelo Anthony? Even if they wanted a big man, I believe Chris Bosh or somebody else pretty dang good was in that draft. I guess I just view "talent" differently than the NFL and NBA.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:37 am

A lot of it is arrogance. NFL coaches are VERY arrogant. They see a raw player with tons of physical ability and think they can coach them up and turn them into a star. Of course that's not always the case, but they think they can.

OTOH there is probably something to be said that the GM's aren't the ones that have to deal with the players in practice/games. They're paid to evaluate talent and when they look at a lot of players they seen tons of talent, and tend to forget that they don't do any of the little things right. They think they can draft that talent, their coach tells them they can mold him into a player, and before you know it Ted freaking Ginn is going #9 in the draft.

tiznow · Post by **tiznow** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:40 am

hammb wrote:A lot of it is arrogance. NFL coaches are VERY arrogant. They see a raw player with tons of physical ability and think they can coach them up and turn them into a star. Of course that's not always the case, but they think they can.

OTOH there is probably something to be said that the GM's aren't the ones that have to deal with the players in practice/games. They're paid to evaluate talent and when they look at a lot of players they seen tons of talent, and tend to forget that they don't do any of the little things right. They think they can draft that talent, their coach tells them they can mold him into a player, and before you know it Ted freaking Ginn is going #9 in the draft.

Matt Jones is another example. He blew everyone away with his 40 time at the combines and he is 6'5 or 6'6. The Jags used a 1st round pick on him as a WR even though he didn't play WR in college. He has been pretty much a bust so far.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:42 am

tiznow wrote:
hammb wrote:A lot of it is arrogance. NFL coaches are VERY arrogant. They see a raw player with tons of physical ability and think they can coach them up and turn them into a star. Of course that's not always the case, but they think they can.

OTOH there is probably something to be said that the GM's aren't the ones that have to deal with the players in practice/games. They're paid to evaluate talent and when they look at a lot of players they seen tons of talent, and tend to forget that they don't do any of the little things right. They think they can draft that talent, their coach tells them they can mold him into a player, and before you know it Ted freaking Ginn is going #9 in the draft.

Matt Jones is another example. He blew everyone away with his 40 time at the combines and he is 6'5 or 6'6. The Jags used a 1st round pick on him as a WR even though he didn't play WR in college. He has been pretty much a bust so far.

Absolutely.

I'll also add that this phenomenon displays itself most often at the WR spot. Teams fall in love with the big fast guys and forget whether or not they could catch the ball or run routes in college. In Matt Jones' case he wasn't even a WR in college. This mentality has really caused most NFL teams to look clueless when it comes to drafting WRs.

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:38 am

hammb wrote:I'll also add that this phenomenon displays itself most often at the WR spot. Teams fall in love with the big fast guys and forget whether or not they could catch the ball or run routes in college. In Matt Jones' case he wasn't even a WR in college. This mentality has really caused most NFL teams to look clueless when it comes to drafting WRs.

Spot on, there, hammb. Coaches are enamored with the idea of a 6-5 wideouts with good speed. It's a great concept, but things like good hands, running good routes, reacting to the ball, creating separation, etc., they can't be overlooked. I mean, that's how guys like Brian Brennan get in - and stay in - the league.

They always say you can't coach speed ... but you can't necessarily coach all the intangibles, either.

Falcon30 · Post by **Falcon30** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:09 pm

1987alum wrote:
hammb wrote:I'll also add that this phenomenon displays itself most often at the WR spot. Teams fall in love with the big fast guys and forget whether or not they could catch the ball or run routes in college. In Matt Jones' case he wasn't even a WR in college. This mentality has really caused most NFL teams to look clueless when it comes to drafting WRs.
Spot on, there, hammb. Coaches are enamored with the idea of a 6-5 wideouts with good speed. It's a great concept, but things like good hands, running good routes, reacting to the ball, creating separation, etc., they can't be overlooked. I mean, that's how guys like Brian Brennan get in - and stay in - the league.

They always say you can't coach speed ... but you can't necessarily coach all the intangibles, either.

case in point - Steve Smith from Carolina...not he most consistent dude in the NFL season-to-season, but flashes of greatness you shouldn't have from a 74th overall pick.