How can we emulate Boise's success?

[thegoodfight]

Hi everybody,

I've been going to Boise State games since the early 90's and have been a life long fan. I will try to give you an idea of how BSU got to where they are today.

I feel the single most important fact in the rise of BSU football is location, like others have mentioned. There are 700k people in the Boise area and it is the most remote city in the entire lower 48 states. BSU football is the only show in town. Washington State and Utah are the 2 closest teams, both about 6 hours by car.

The PAC 10 is the only BCS conference west of the great divide, so that means when it comes to recruiting, we recruit against the top teams in the Mountain West Conference (Utah, BYU) and the PAC 10. That is it. I can not begin to think of the recruiting you guys deal with being in the east and going against the Big East, Conf. USA, the B10, the ACC and the other MAC schools.

Also, cal it luck, but our AD may have put together the greatest streak of coaches ever seen for a program of our size when we started in D1A football. Houston Nutt, Dirk Koetter, Dan Hawkins and Petersen. With these coaches the type of player that BSU recruits has changed quit a bit. We started off with some really good football players that were too small for the big schools, or came from little small towns. Our first few bowl wins were big deals, beating Louisville, Iowa State, and probably the biggest one at the time, beating TCU in the Fort Worth Bowl in 2003. That changed the way we started to recruit, IMHO, then we started to outgrow the WAC teams and then we got lucky with some of the players we had in 06 to make a run at the Fiesta. These were recruits that kind of flew under the radar athletically or were from small towns, or were the 2nd choice of big schools, but were good football players and had some speed. These players get developed and before you know it, you've got yourself a top 10 team.

The process that we are going through now is pretty neat to watch. Recently, we have been beating out the big boys for recruits, and the product on the field is getting more athletic, while maintaining the "good, solid football player" approach.

But, it has taken an entire decade for all of this to fall in place. I really enjoy reading this board and hope BGSU can become the King of the MAC and build from there.

[JH5]

On a random thought, imagine if we would have ponied up and payed Meyer the more money than what Utah was offering.

I forget how much went into Mrs. Meyer's shopping fund from the Utah deal, but I don't think it would have been worth it for BG to spend that much for one, two years tops of Urban on the sidelines.

100% disagree.

Urban would have had Harris for another year and then Omar the year after that. You'd turn those opportunities down? Those 1-2 years could have made a HUGE difference in terms of not only winning games but recruiting. I can almost guarantee we would be better off right now had Urban stayed 1-2 more years. We might even be talking BCS bowls.

Getting to Boise's level? Pretty much agree with what everyone else is saying. You schedule lesser opponents and beat them consistently (in other words, you don't lose to Marshall) and then recruiting becomes easier. Then you win a few MAC titles in a row, then you start thinking bigger things. But the biggest thing is recruiting I think and that all starts with winning.


It also helps when your head coach doesn't leave for a bigger school (and no, I'm not talking about GB). Chris Peterson has shown some real loyalty to BSU and it has paid off big time.

[TG1996]

100% disagree.

Urban would have had Harris for another year and then Omar the year after that. You'd turn those opportunities down? Those 1-2 years could have made a HUGE difference in terms of not only winning games but recruiting. I can almost guarantee we would be better off right now had Urban stayed 1-2 more years. We might even be talking BCS bowls.

When you look at what we accomplished in '03, what more would the team have done with Urban on the sidelines? MAYBE we beat Ohio State, but we played an outstanding game there and still came up short. That would have been huge, but I don't think Meyer makes that a guaranteed W. The Miami(OH) team we lost to was disgustingly good. Do you think the same coach who had a team lose convincingly at NIU then fold down the stretch would have beaten that team? Again, maybe, but no guarantee. Then we beat Northwestern in the bowl game.

I think more of an argument could be made for what he could have done in '04, but aside from not falling apart with a 20 point halftime lead at Toledo, I don't think anything's a guarantee. (They got rolled at NIU...again, where Urban lost in '02).

I see what you're saying, but I'm just not convinced that he would have stayed more than a year - two, tops - longer than he did, and that the results on the field wouldn't have been appreciably different than what we ended up with. And the money that would have been needed to keep him away from Utah (or wherever on that level) likely would have had to come from donations, which have gone to much-needed facilities in the long run.

[Redwingtom]

1. Start by cheating.

2. Keep cheating.

3. Stop cheating.

[falconfan1999]

1. Start by cheating.

2. Keep cheating.

3. Stop cheating.

But I don't want to be Marshall!!!

Seriously, can I help the coaches recruit kids? Would they want a copy of every roster in the area, so they can look over the crop of athletes?

[MarkL]

The biggest challenge facing us as said before is our geography. BG is right in the middle of two of the biggest powerhouses in all of America and has some other big ones nearby (ND, MSU, IU, Purdue, Cincinnati) and is surrounded by tons of other teams of similar size to us. Following the Boise model might not be the best route ... instead, we should shoot to emulate TCU's success. TCU is in Texas which is on the same level of football craziness as Ohio/Michigan/Western PA. TCU has to deal with Texas, Baylor, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech in their own state, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the north, and in their own state there also is Houston, UNT, Rice, SMU, and UTEP, and just outside are Tulsa, UNM, and NMSU competing for recruits. Through all that, they manage to put together solid teams each year, are a pain-in-the-ass team to BCS teams on a consistent basis (Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and just this weekend Clemson to name a few), and they don't have a blue field. If they were still in C-USA or in the WAC instead of the MWC, they would have a ton more conference championships than they do. I would definitely say we should find out how TCU does it and follow that model - I just think it applies better than the Boise one due to the differences in geography and culture.

[Falcon137]

I always thought a 2nd team in Ohio could emerge and thrive in Ohio. Whether it was Miami, Toledo, BG, or UC. With the way UC has played the last 2 years and the players they have for the future they will be the 2nd power in Ohio (maybe #1 this year). SW Ohio has probably the strongest football in the state, if UC can keep getting the players from the GCL schools, Colerain, and certain Dayton schools it will be tough to keep up.

The best players in the state are in SW Ohio, and the Cleveland area. I like that we have been recruiting Middletown so hard and perhaps we can carve a niche out and be able to recruit Middletown and the Dayton suburbs, but the more success UC has the more difficult it will be to get the top level Ohio players.

[NWLB]

I don't think there is anything new under the sun. We have seen the MAC surge before, but again, as is noted in this thread, the footprint of our league hurts us. We've had years when several MAC teams were giant killers. Others where teams get very highly ranked. Sustaining that momentum has proven entirely impossible. Only one team, which cheated, cashed in on 1A drop down talent unable to stay out of trouble at bigger schools, and which dumped far more money into their program managed to turn the trick. That was Marshall. Now they are up against it with CUSA without cheating and not having a money advantage. They suck. Not simply bad, they suck. And we just lost to them. But the lesson remains: They spent the money, had fanatics as fans, and the results on the field.

UC has elevated itself as well, and within Ohio. UC was an utter joke of a football program, with a lousy stadium in a demilitarized zone of a campus, in a city only a few notches above Detroit in some way. They turned the trick however, by spending money that MAC schools won't be able to match. They bought their way into bowl games, wantonly throwing cash at anybody. They leveraged their corrupt basketball program into TV and other deals for football. In short, they burned cash, a heck of a lot of it, and had basketball success none in the MAC can match, all in an urban setting which aided their case.

It is easy to say "schedule" easier, but how much deeper into barrel can we scrap? Half of the MAC can barely get past modest 1AA teams these days.

Some schools in the MAC could do very well, but not all of them are going to be able to do so at the same time. Few seem willing to try unless they think they are certain to succeed. The will to drive the league and individual schools as they need to, simply does not exist.

This debate brings to mind the debate over what means more, bowl games and rankings or MAC titles. Too many programs are searching for bowls and calling it quits. They can't even win the conference, but they figure it is good enough if they get a bid to be bitch-slapped in a fourth tier bowl game for a fraction of meaningful payouts. Getting a weeks worth of ranking seems enough for most MAC schools to plaster on media guides and trumpet in alumni magazines. Yet as often, they aren't the title winner, in a league that can't get out of its own way, much less beat most anybody else.

Likewise, in the end, I think to a great extent, chasing a status like that of Boise is a fools errand. I mean, big deal? Is somebody here disillusional enough to think a national title might come along? And what of a BCS bid? So what, where is a school going to go after that? A bigger league? Is that what this is really about? I doubt it, and if that is somebody's motivation in driving demands, we have the Marshall example again. Even UC, for all the hype, had to buy its way to what it has, and nobody knows how long it will last.

The entire MAC, BGSU included, aren't really competing for anything other than mediocrity. They are fixated on OOC payouts to make budget issues easier. They are fixated on fan placating bowl games, and PR friendly glimpses of rankings. They are content to give lip-service to the nobility of the struggle, so long as they don't have to pay anything for it. All of this would be a lesser evil if folks were less concerned with external issues and more interested in the reason for a league: competition amongst our own. The last I checked, BGSU hasn't been the best at that since 1992, and the lack of concern over that is the most appalling thing of all.

[BGSUfalcons]

Of course the ratings are far from perfect, but, according to Rivals, Boise State signed 7, 5, and 11 3-star recruits over the past three years. According to Rivals, there are 51 3-star recruits from Ohio this year (I'm not going to bother including 4- and 5-star recruits or take the time to search Michigan, Penn, etc). As others have pointed out, these kids are committing to schools such as Ohio St, Michigan, the rest of the Big Ten, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Kentucky, and one even committed to UCLA. They have received offers from these schools as well as from other schools from all of the "major" conferences.

BGSU has offered many of the 3-stars (including some who have given commitments to other MAC schools).

[daspollak]

BG could also use a few big time NFL players as well. I know this doesn't make the biggest difference, but imagine talking to a 3 star recruit who is thinking of going to OSU and saying he was face with the same choice, he came here and now look where he is at. This won't help us bring in the bigger recruits, but should help us land some BCS level talents.

[falconfan1999]

What I want out of our program, actually all of them at BGSU, is to be competitive year in and year out. I want them to schedule winnable games against teams who we can beat. USC probably isn't our best bet, but how about Florida State? I always like playing Northwestern and Purdue!

Is a bowl game with a meager payout worth it to me? Yes. Respectability starts somewhere. Win your conference, win a bowl game, repeat. This is how you become the big dog on the block. You have to capitalize on what assets you already have, while finding ways to steal some players from under the big guys nose. I'm not content to be mediocre. I want success!

[footballguy51]

BG could also use a few big time NFL players as well. I know this doesn't make the biggest difference, but imagine talking to a 3 star recruit who is thinking of going to OSU and saying he was face with the same choice, he came here and now look where he is at. This won't help us bring in the bigger recruits, but should help us land some BCS level talents.

We do have some players to name off that are currently in the NFL, but most high school kids won't know of them unless they are fans of that team. Suisham, Mrzcowski (sp?), and Lichtensteiger are the three most recent I can come up with. Unfortunately, the biggest name we've had in a while, Omar Jacobs, is making headlines in Florence for a team that is not known outside of Florence and the AIFA. All of our other players that have been in the NFL have seen practice squad duty and nothing more, and anybody with a name that is pronounceable and spellable isn't making headlines. If Geter makes an NFL team and plays in some games, that will help because it's a running back with a name that can be pronounced and spelled. I'm not so sure it'll happen, but he seems like a Darren Sproles type.

[MACMAN]

If the University had wanted a center stage Football program, they would have figured out how to Meyer around.

Case and point BG is and always will be bottom half left out of the VOTE school, the school just can not compete financially, and is now so far removed (decades) that that is just not even something that can even remotely be up for consideration.

[Zorki1c]

Something else to think about when trying to get national attention.

Boise State gets hammered by fans of other teams for the Blue field "Real football fields have to be green" etc. But I firmly believe that field helped our program.--In the early days it made us stand out from other mid majors. I think that's also why ESPN started broadcasting so many of our games--even before the Fiesta Bowl win. "The Blue" became our trademark. You can love it or hate it but you for sure are going to remember it.

I was reading an on line story of a kid who plays for little California Davis which comes to Boise next week (we really shouldn't be playing them). The player was asked what excited him the most about being a member of the team and he said it was looking forward to going to Boise and "Playing on the Blue." That is an example of what a trademark can do for a program.

Last year ago about this time, my wife and I were in China. Our tour group was mingling with another tour group at the Ming Tombs. I got to talking to a couple from Florida and mentioned we were from Boise. the woman said something like, "Oh, Boise State. You guys have the same colors as the Gators. I wish we had a blue field!" Now the lady's hubby didn't agree with her but the main thing here is that a lady from Florida who is a Gator fan knows about Boise State. . . .because of the unique field. "The Blue" has given us millions of dollars worth of P.R.

I'm not saying you should get Orange field turf. I am suggesting you figure out some sort of angle that sets BG apart from othe schools in the region.

[NWLB]

I'd have no issue with Orange turf.