Sideline Scouting Seven Round Mock

[hammb]

Wow...SERIOUSLY!? Kellen Moore!? Good grief...

He doesn't get downgraded for being from a non-BCS school he gets down graded for not possessing any of the skills that are required of an NFL QB. He's small, would have the weakest arm of any QB on an NFL roster, and isn't that accurate unless he's throwing to guys that are basically uncovered. He was a great collegiate QB who has absolutely no skillset that translates to NFL football. He's basically a Boise St. version of Ken Dorsey. He played at Miami and was a 7th rounder. If Kellen Moore gets drafted at ALL I don't think it's fair to say he was downgraded for being from a non-BCS school.

I don't know about Tannehill. That's up to the guys in charge of the Browns to decide whether they see him as a top flight prospect or not. I definitely think he's a notch below Griffin & Luck. But Roethlisberger was a notch below Manning & Rivers and look how that turned out. I definitely think Tannehill has the physical skillset to eventually be a top flight NFL player. It's up to the guys that actually meet and interview him to figure out if the mental makeup is there for him to develop into a star.

But the reason you take a developmental project like Tannehill in the first over a guy like Harnish or Lindley is quite simple. With Tannehill if you're able to develop him he has the skillset to eventually be a guy you can win with. The other guys, if they hit their ceilings, are a couple more Colt McCoys to watch every week.

The way I see it the Browns have 2 options. One, they decide Tannehill is a guy they can work with, they grab weapons with the rest of their picks, and hopefully he thrives in the West Coast Offense. Or two, they decide they don't love Tannehill, they just draft weapons at other positions and when they suck next year (which they will because McCoy shouldn't be on an NFL roster, let alone starting) hopefully they can package picks to get in line to take a top flight QB. The one thing I don't want them to do is keep drafting these 2nd/3rd round talents and hoping they become the next Drew Brees or Tom Brady...you just can't bank on that. Whether they put QB off for another year, or address it with Tannehill this year, I'm fine either way, honestly. Just don't compound your problems by giving up picks that could instantly start at 21 positions on the field for a project QB who has limited upside.

The bottom line is I don't think the WRs on the Browns are nearly as terrible as they've been made to look, or as other Browns fans seem to believe. I don't think they're great, by any stretch, but that's largely because I don't think you can develop as a WR when you have the likes of Colt McCoy playing QB. I do agree the RBs on the roster are awful (and I don't think Hillis was all that either), but I think you can find a pretty damn good RB at #22 or #37.

[SidelineScouting]

I know I'm in the minority on this one but I think Kellen Moore is among the best quarterbacks to enter the draft in recent years. He's not tall and not horribly mobile but the guy can flat out pass and read defenses better than anyone I've seen in a long time. Running the Boise State offense he looked a lot like Peyton Manning. If the Colts are looking for someone who can quickly pick up their playbook and run the offense seemlessly, including calling audibles from the field, I think Kellen Moore fits the billing better than Andrew Luck. Too bad the NFL requires guys to be 6'2 or taller to play quarterback. Too bad Drew Brees and his Super Bowl ring hasn't proved that line of thinking wrong yet.

Dear God, I hope you're kidding. He's a 6'0 tall quarterback with one of the weakest arms in the draft who put up huge numbers on a good team in a non-bcs conference. Kellen Moore = Chase Daniel.

[hammb]

I know I'm in the minority on this one but I think Kellen Moore is among the best quarterbacks to enter the draft in recent years. He's not tall and not horribly mobile but the guy can flat out pass and read defenses better than anyone I've seen in a long time. Running the Boise State offense he looked a lot like Peyton Manning. If the Colts are looking for someone who can quickly pick up their playbook and run the offense seemlessly, including calling audibles from the field, I think Kellen Moore fits the billing better than Andrew Luck. Too bad the NFL requires guys to be 6'2 or taller to play quarterback. Too bad Drew Brees and his Super Bowl ring hasn't proved that line of thinking wrong yet.

Dear God, I hope you're kidding. He's a 6'0 tall quarterback with one of the weakest arms in the draft who put up huge numbers on a good team in a non-bcs conference. Kellen Moore = Chase Daniel.

And I wanted to add that he hasn't read a single defense in the offense that Boise runs. He gets the reads from the sideline and in the spread formation he rarely, if ever, was asked to even LOOK at more than 1/3 of the field.

Their offense was a lot like the one that Omar played in here...VERY conducive to putting up massive passing numbers. He was basically asked (out of shotgun most of the time) to look at the side of the field the coaching staff told him and to throw to one of two receivers based on what the coverage was on that side of the field. Watch even his HIGHLIGHT tapes and you'll notice that his head basically goes one place after the snap and stays there until he throws. (The same is true of RGIII and most other spread offense QBs, so it's not unique to Moore).

If you honestly believe that Kellen Moore is a future NFL QB I really have to question your knowledge of the game. I'll be the first to say that I can't for the life of me figure out which NFL QBs will fail or succeed, but I will definitely say that Kellen Moore is probably a longer shot to taste NFL success than even Tom Brady was.

[TG1996]

lol. Hey, it's a site created by a couple of 2010 BG alums! Don't hate.

Well next year, don't bury the lead like that! Roll Along, Falcons!

[MarkL]

Hammb, have you watched Boise State recently? Moore doesn't ever read defenses? Really? Watch him against Georgia. Virginia Tech. Oregon. TCU when their defense was outstanding. He was making some incredible reads and NFL caliber throws. A team can work on his arm strength if they feel it's needed (which it is), but he's got the mind of an NFL QB, no doubt. He's got the reads and the adjustments that you don't expect for a guy leaving college. That's a great football mind and a four year starter.

I see two knocks on the guy ... he's not tall, and neither are Drew Brees and Doug Flutie. As long as the guy can read the field and be durable to survive slams from DEs, he's tall enough to be an NFL QB.
... and his arm isn't the strongest.

Seriously, how many times in a game does an NFL QB have to make that throw? I think he'll be fine. Somebody is going to pick him up and realize they got the biggest steal of the last few years.

[Flipper]

RE drafting a QB...there were a number of Lion's fans who wanted them to draft Aaron Curry istead of Matt Stafford because Colt McCoy would have been there the following year....Idiots.

NOrmally...I agree with hammb in the sense that you don't want to spend a high pick on a CB or RT...the value just isn't there, but man...that Morris Claiborne is a great player. I know the Browns already have Haden and that weould be a lot of $$$ invested in CB's, so they won't take him. But he's going to be agreat NFL DB. Tannehill or Richardson (or a trade) are more likely bets, but Claiborne is going to be a better pro than either of them.

[SidelineScouting]

Hammb, have you watched Boise State recently? Moore doesn't ever read defenses? Really? Watch him against Georgia. Virginia Tech. Oregon. TCU when their defense was outstanding. He was making some incredible reads and NFL caliber throws. A team can work on his arm strength if they feel it's needed (which it is), but he's got the mind of an NFL QB, no doubt. He's got the reads and the adjustments that you don't expect for a guy leaving college. That's a great football mind and a four year starter.

I see two knocks on the guy ... he's not tall, and neither are Drew Brees and Doug Flutie. As long as the guy can read the field and be durable to survive slams from DEs, he's tall enough to be an NFL QB.
... and his arm isn't the strongest.

Seriously, how many times in a game does an NFL QB have to make that throw? I think he'll be fine. Somebody is going to pick him up and realize they got the biggest steal of the last few years.

Three things:

1.) You CANNOT evaluate a player based on one throw.

2.) That throw isn't even very good. It was bad defense more than anything. He got too much loft on the ball and the safety was late to the ball. In the NFL, that ball is an easy interception. Did he get it there? Sure, but that completion had more to do with bad defense and an outstanding play by Titus Young than a great throw.

The NFL isn't just a cerebral game, you need both the intellect AND the physical abilities. When referencing Brees, you fail to mention that Brees has a strong arm by NFL standards. He's the exception, not the standard. If the NFL was just about making pre-snap reads and being a leader, then Greg McElroy would have been a standout for the Jets last year. Chase Daniel would have been a stud. But that's not how it works, you need all of those qualities. Kellen Moore has the smarts, but that's about all he has that's at an NFL level.

[hammb]

Hammb, have you watched Boise State recently? Moore doesn't ever read defenses? Really? Watch him against Georgia. Virginia Tech. Oregon. TCU when their defense was outstanding. He was making some incredible reads and NFL caliber throws. A team can work on his arm strength if they feel it's needed (which it is), but he's got the mind of an NFL QB, no doubt. He's got the reads and the adjustments that you don't expect for a guy leaving college. That's a great football mind and a four year starter.

I see two knocks on the guy ... he's not tall, and neither are Drew Brees and Doug Flutie. As long as the guy can read the field and be durable to survive slams from DEs, he's tall enough to be an NFL QB.
... and his arm isn't the strongest.

Seriously, how many times in a game does an NFL QB have to make that throw? I think he'll be fine. Somebody is going to pick him up and realize they got the biggest steal of the last few years.

Three things:

1.) You CANNOT evaluate a player based on one throw.

2.) That throw isn't even very good. It was bad defense more than anything. He got too much loft on the ball and the safety was late to the ball. In the NFL, that ball is an easy interception. Did he get it there? Sure, but that completion had more to do with bad defense and an outstanding play by Titus Young than a great throw.

The NFL isn't just a cerebral game, you need both the intellect AND the physical abilities. When referencing Brees, you fail to mention that Brees has a strong arm by NFL standards. He's the exception, not the standard. If the NFL was just about making pre-snap reads and being a leader, then Greg McElroy would have been a standout for the Jets last year. Chase Daniel would have been a stud. But that's not how it works, you need all of those qualities. Kellen Moore has the smarts, but that's about all he has that's at an NFL level.

Moore flat out does NOT read defenses. It's not part of what he's asked to do in that offense. RGIII doesn't read defenses, Omar didn't read defenses, Tebow didn't read defenses, etc, etc. The spread quite simply does NOT ask their QBs to read the defense. At best it's one single key where the QB has the choice of two WRs. Maybe they'll eventually throw to the other side or a dump off if it's really well covered, but 90+% of the time the QB is looking one way and picking which of 2 guys to throw the ball to based on what the coverage is.

I agree that you can't evaluate a player based on one play, but that play is a very GLOWING example of why Moore isn't an NFL QB prospect. Moore takes the snap (from Shotgun), watches Titus Young run his entire pass route, and then needs to take a 4 step running start to throw the ball 57 yards in the air...a throw which took a solid 5 seconds to reach its destination. And his WR had to make a full on laid out diving catch to haul it in.

I haven't seen the coach's film of the play but I'd venture to guess that the only reason that throw is completed is because the safety is so blatantly out of position he couldn't recover...and that's pretty sad considering that Moore never once took his eyes off Young.

Look...everybody loves Kellen Moore. He's a great kid and was a great winner in college, but he is so far away from an NFL prospect it's not even funny. If not for the fact that they won so many games with all that talent around him he wouldn't even be a blip on the NFL's radar...he's not worth the ink of writing his name on a draft card when it comes to NFL prospect status.


And Flip: I don't think Claiborne is all that and a bag of chips as a CB prospect. I think he's the best CB in this draft class, but I don't think he's a better prospect than other recent CBs in recent drafts. And he may end up a better player than Tannehill or Richardson, but he won't help his team win more games, because CBs don't help their teams win more games. Moreover, I firmly believe every draft has 4-5 CBs who are pretty much on equal footing with their chances to become good NFL players...it's pretty rare that the 1st CB taken ends up being the best CB...and if he is, it's generally not by much. Haden is good, but there are 2-3 other CBs taken in that same 1st round that are just as good.

For every Charles Woodson or Champ Bailey there are 5 mediocre CBs taken in the top 10. It's just not a position that leads to wins, IMO.

[SidelineScouting]

Hammb, have you watched Boise State recently? Moore doesn't ever read defenses? Really? Watch him against Georgia. Virginia Tech. Oregon. TCU when their defense was outstanding. He was making some incredible reads and NFL caliber throws. A team can work on his arm strength if they feel it's needed (which it is), but he's got the mind of an NFL QB, no doubt. He's got the reads and the adjustments that you don't expect for a guy leaving college. That's a great football mind and a four year starter.

I see two knocks on the guy ... he's not tall, and neither are Drew Brees and Doug Flutie. As long as the guy can read the field and be durable to survive slams from DEs, he's tall enough to be an NFL QB.
... and his arm isn't the strongest.

Seriously, how many times in a game does an NFL QB have to make that throw? I think he'll be fine. Somebody is going to pick him up and realize they got the biggest steal of the last few years.

Three things:

1.) You CANNOT evaluate a player based on one throw.

2.) That throw isn't even very good. It was bad defense more than anything. He got too much loft on the ball and the safety was late to the ball. In the NFL, that ball is an easy interception. Did he get it there? Sure, but that completion had more to do with bad defense and an outstanding play by Titus Young than a great throw.

The NFL isn't just a cerebral game, you need both the intellect AND the physical abilities. When referencing Brees, you fail to mention that Brees has a strong arm by NFL standards. He's the exception, not the standard. If the NFL was just about making pre-snap reads and being a leader, then Greg McElroy would have been a standout for the Jets last year. Chase Daniel would have been a stud. But that's not how it works, you need all of those qualities. Kellen Moore has the smarts, but that's about all he has that's at an NFL level.

Moore flat out does NOT read defenses. It's not part of what he's asked to do in that offense. RGIII doesn't read defenses, Omar didn't read defenses, Tebow didn't read defenses, etc, etc. The spread quite simply does NOT ask their QBs to read the defense. At best it's one single key where the QB has the choice of two WRs. Maybe they'll eventually throw to the other side or a dump off if it's really well covered, but 90+% of the time the QB is looking one way and picking which of 2 guys to throw the ball to based on what the coverage is.

I agree that you can't evaluate a player based on one play, but that play is a very GLOWING example of why Moore isn't an NFL QB prospect. Moore takes the snap (from Shotgun), watches Titus Young run his entire pass route, and then needs to take a 4 step running start to throw the ball 57 yards in the air...a throw which took a solid 5 seconds to reach its destination. And his WR had to make a full on laid out diving catch to haul it in.

I haven't seen the coach's film of the play but I'd venture to guess that the only reason that throw is completed is because the safety is so blatantly out of position he couldn't recover...and that's pretty sad considering that Moore never once took his eyes off Young.

Look...everybody loves Kellen Moore. He's a great kid and was a great winner in college, but he is so far away from an NFL prospect it's not even funny. If not for the fact that they won so many games with all that talent around him he wouldn't even be a blip on the NFL's radar...he's not worth the ink of writing his name on a draft card when it comes to NFL prospect status.


And Flip: I don't think Claiborne is all that and a bag of chips as a CB prospect. I think he's the best CB in this draft class, but I don't think he's a better prospect than other recent CBs in recent drafts. And he may end up a better player than Tannehill or Richardson, but he won't help his team win more games, because CBs don't help their teams win more games. Moreover, I firmly believe every draft has 4-5 CBs who are pretty much on equal footing with their chances to become good NFL players...it's pretty rare that the 1st CB taken ends up being the best CB...and if he is, it's generally not by much. Haden is good, but there are 2-3 other CBs taken in that same 1st round that are just as good.

For every Charles Woodson or Champ Bailey there are 5 mediocre CBs taken in the top 10. It's just not a position that leads to wins, IMO.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Perfect analysis Hammb

[Flipper]

Claiborne is a bag of chips...Better Mades to be exact. You can look at any position and say "for every great player there's a ton who didn't pan put"...that's why the draft is so inexact.

[MarkL]

Hammb, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I see an absolute gem in Moore wrapped in a small body and I think you've been smoking something illegal when saying he can't read, and you think I have no clue regarding NFL, and neither is going to change the other's mind. And the two of us are more sensible than other posters on this board, sensible enough to not carry an argument on and on while everybody else groans and says to get the f**k over it.

How may days until BG football kicks off? Now that March Madness is over, I've got the NFL draft and the Reds and the O's and preseason football magazines to fill in the gap until kickoff at the Swamp.

[fredthefalcon]

RE drafting a QB...there were a number of Lion's fans who wanted them to draft Aaron Curry istead of Matt Stafford because Colt McCoy would have been there the following year....Idiots.
.

Flipper,
I'm pretty sure the fans that preferred Curry wanted to wait for Bradford the next year rather than McCoy, but regardless, the Lions made the correct move. Boy, you haven't got to say that too many times in the past 15 years.

[Flipper]

Yeah...it's been awhile since they f'd up a top five pick...

[Warthog]

I love all this draft talk.

My thoughts on the Browns...

Whether they love Tannehill or not, they have to play it up that he is the man they want. Right now, the first three look about as solid as they could be (Luck, RGIII, Kalil). So if the Browns want Tannehill he will be there. If they don't want him, they can still force someone to try and trade ahead of them with the Vikings to take Tannehill. Then that makes Kalil available and they should take him, put him at RT and not worry about that spot for a decade.

Truth is though, I'd like to see them trade down. St. Louis would be ideal. Back to 6 still gets them Richardson or Claiborne. And I won't disagree with Hammb's thoughts about taking a RB or CB this high, but if they are the best player available, you still have to take them. The Browns need talent. Especially when it is a need position for the Browns. 22 almost has to be the best WR available, if they don't take Blackmon.

What is boils down to, I see them taking a WR, RB, RT with the first three picks. If they can trade back and snag another 2nd round pick, that opens up some flexibility in that plan and allows them to look at Claiborne or a DE or LB with that extra pick. Although they may be satisfied at DE with Rucker and the dude from the Eagles they signed.

[Flipper]

Claiborne is said to have gotten a four on the Wonderlic....if true, that's the lowest score ever. That could cause him to drop a bit...