EMU faculty, students: Drop out of Division I football

[It's the Journey...]

I think this thread has crossed over and needs to be split. EMU has a serious issue with FBS football. Bowling Green does not have that issue thanks to our success. Even during the last six years of Blackney when crowds were not even average there was support for the team because we knew things would turn around. EMU does not have that. Do I think we need to have a discussion about the funding of athletics as a part of the funding for the University as a whole, yes. Do I think almost 60% of the student general fee going to support athletics is too much, yes. Do I think our situation warrants a drop to FCS or lower, not at all! That does not mean the discussion should not happen. We started this thread talking about EMU's football problem and then all of a sudden it turned into "why would BGSU even consider this?" Right now ever school outside of the Power 5 needs to take a hard look at athletics and decide at what level can they financially compete. To not do that is doing nothing more than burring their heads in the sand, like an emu.......

In my mind, our discussion goes something like this.
Do we field a competitive football team in FCS? Yes
Does the media exposure open BGSU to new students? Yes
Can we continue to financially support athletics with the current formula? No
Should we be using almost 60% of a students general fee dollars to support athletics verses other aspects of campus life? No
How can we reduce that number to 40% or lower?
How can we increase outside donations to the program?
What is a reasonable timeline to complete this?

That, to me, would be a great place for our discussion to begin. But that may not be the correct path for anyone else.

Our situation are SO much bigger than "Not the faculty as a whole, just the tiny percentage that wants to gut other aspects of the university (and eliminate a chunk of their lower tenured colleagues) in order to get raises for themselves."

P.S. I would love for you to put some name to this "tiny percentage."

[FalconTurf]

http://www.bcsn.tv/news_article/show/644704 Idaho and Eastern Michigan situations in Blade article

The cost, the facilities, the commitment continues to get bigger and bigger. I don't care how many mid-major conference titles you win the burden of DI-A football on universities that do not sell 40,000+ $50 tickets will put a strain on budgets and student tuition and fees that creates an environment where tough decisions will be made. If Idaho had the facilities and financial commitment a conference would be interested. IMO this will be the first of several difficult decisions to go down a level or two in college football.

[Flipper]

I don't know if it's by coincidence or design...but the P5 is using $$$ to drive smaller programs out of D1 football in much the same way Reagan bankrupted the Soviets by ramping up defense spending.

[manager]

Love the Reagan analogy (and it didn't do any good to the U.S. economy either.)

[Roll Along!]

I don't know if it's by coincidence or design...but the P5 is using $$$ to drive smaller programs out of D1 football in much the same way Reagan bankrupted the Soviets by ramping up defense spending.

The money spent by the P5 isn't the impetus to drive smaller programs out. Whether Ohio State spends $50 mil more than us or $500 mil more than us, we aren't recruiting against them for players, coaches or much of anything else. The concern is if Ball State, instead of spending $5 mil more than us, starts spending $25 mil more than us. That would be extremely concerning.

If the P5 wants to drive the small programs out of D1 football, it's easy. Deregulate transfer rules. Allow student-athletes to transfer from school to school with no penalty. Make the MAC a minor-league feeder system to the Big Ten. The reality is, even though they won't say it, the Big Ten and other P5 conferences need us. They need the home games and they need the wins. The money chasing has nothing to do with the MAC. It has to do with P5 conferences trying to outdo other P5 conferences.

[Critical Thinker]

The reality is, even though they won't say it, the Big Ten and other P5 conferences need us.

No they don't. If the P5 stopped scheduling the G5 tomorrow, the Ohio States and Alabamas would be perfectly content bashing on the Minnesotas and Vanderbilts for easy wins. It would just turn into another set of haves and have nots that ensures the same 25 programs will always win.

They need the home games

Again, no they don't. All they need is their games in their fan bases' TV market.

[Schadenfreude]

The reality is, even though they won't say it, the Big Ten and other P5 conferences need us.

No they don't. If the P5 stopped scheduling the G5 tomorrow, the Ohio States and Alabamas would be perfectly content bashing on the Minnesotas and Vanderbilts for easy wins. It would just turn into another set of haves and have nots that ensures the same 25 programs will always win.

They need the home games

Again, no they don't. All they need is their games in their fan bases' TV market.

Sure, Ohio State and Alabama have no real need for G5 schools. But the likes of Maryland, Rutgers, and Indiana do.

[mscarn]

In the last couple months the following have been majority opinions about our MAC Championship winning team:

1) We shouldn't spend money on football.
2) We should seriously consider dropping to lower divisions.
3) It's good and right that our best players didn't get drafted.
4) It's awesome that one of our best returning player transferred.

On a Bowling Green message board. Talk about being at a loss for words. I'd hate to see what they think on the Toledo board.

[mscarn]

The students at BG love their team? You mean OSU? The students that show up are a fraction of the total...one easy way to settle the issue would be a referendum across campus on the issue. I think if you put the notion of full support and staying at D1 vs cutting back on the $$ and being DII...well...then you'd know.

In your perfect world they'd have to increase the fees to cover sports because you want a greater financial commitment from the University and fewer "money games" in football. No other way to make up that shortfall. Put that idea to a vote while your at it.

I'm glad you derive so much emotional satisfaction from football...everyone needs an outlet. I really have to question the sanity of dumping millions of dollars into this Quixotic quest to prove we're "equal to OSU". Even if the team does beat them...so what?

We're going around in circles at this point. You've made your points and I've made mine. I want a winning team and I think money should be spent to make that happen. Beating OSU is secondary; if they're going to be on the schedule, all I'd like is an honest effort put forth to put the team in a position to do so. Any emotional satisfaction derived from that is entirely based on the emotional meltdown that a pack of brainwashed, cultish, arrogant, drunken followers of The soi-disant state university would be caught in the vortex of should that day ever come.

[mscarn]

I don't know if it's by coincidence or design...but the P5 is using $$$ to drive smaller programs out of D1 football in much the same way Reagan bankrupted the Soviets by ramping up defense spending.

The money spent by the P5 isn't the impetus to drive smaller programs out. Whether Ohio State spends $50 mil more than us or $500 mil more than us, we aren't recruiting against them for players, coaches or much of anything else. The concern is if Ball State, instead of spending $5 mil more than us, starts spending $25 mil more than us. That would be extremely concerning.

If the P5 wants to drive the small programs out of D1 football, it's easy. Deregulate transfer rules. Allow student-athletes to transfer from school to school with no penalty. Make the MAC a minor-league feeder system to the Big Ten. The reality is, even though they won't say it, the Big Ten and other P5 conferences need us. They need the home games and they need the wins. The money chasing has nothing to do with the MAC. It has to do with P5 conferences trying to outdo other P5 conferences.

Bingo.

[Flipper]

They don't need us...90% of their fan base would see no distinction in scheduling Indiana State instead of us. If you don't see the decades long effort to isolate the haves and the have nots (attendance rules..BGSU was reclassidfied as a 1AA program for a year...the formation of the CFA followed by the BCS which was then followed by the curent P5 set up) I'm not sure what you're looking at. Every significant move that's been made in college football over the past 35-40 years has been designed to push the $$ towards the bigger schools. We don't control that process, so trying to fight it is ludicrous. Trying to pretend we belong at that table is delusional

I'm NOT advocating spending "nothing on football". I'm suggesting we should spend significantly less and compete at a level that is more realistic for a school with our historically limited appeal and resources because...guess what?...you're likely as not going to have o make that choice anyway

[Flipper]

In the last couple months the following have been majority opinions about our MAC Championship winning team:

1) We shouldn't spend money on football.
2) We should seriously consider dropping to lower divisions.
3) It's good and right that our best players didn't get drafted.
4) It's awesome that one of our best returning player transferred.

On a Bowling Green message board. Talk about being at a loss for words. I'd hate to see what they think on the Toledo board.

1. We should spend less because we have less. we do not have the resources to continue to grow the program with the rest of D1.

2. Yep...makes perfect sense to do that for everyone but the folks who can't let go of the "glory days" of their youth

3. It's not good that our guys didn't get drafted...but I'm not a delusional fanboy. I recognize the shortcomings they have as they relate to playing as professionals. I don't feel that detracts from their status as people or college athletes. I don't view their professional status as anything other than reality. Reality isn't good..it isn't bad. It just is.

4. Gehrig Deiter has a mind of his own and the right to choose where he attends college. I have no business criticizing him for moving onto a program with facilities that rival the NFL. It's his life...not mine. I enjoyed watching him play here for a couple of years and would have liked to do so this year, but he decided to go elsewhere. That's reality...and reality isn't good or bad...it just is.

and finally...f**k Toledo. They're even more delusional than some of you. Every year they talk about how this is the year they kill and become the next Boise State when they haven't even won this cute little regional conference in a decade...

[Roll Along!]

They don't need us...90% of their fan base would see no distinction in scheduling Indiana State instead of us. If you don't see the decades long effort to isolate the haves and the have nots (attendance rules..BGSU was reclassidfied as a 1AA program for a year...the formation of the CFA followed by the BCS which was then followed by the curent P5 set up) I'm not sure what you're looking at. Every significant move that's been made in college football over the past 35-40 years has been designed to push the $$ towards the bigger schools. We don't control that process, so trying to fight it is ludicrous. Trying to pretend we belong at that table is delusional

I'm NOT advocating spending "nothing on football". I'm suggesting we should spend significantly less and compete at a level that is more realistic for a school with our historically limited appeal and resources because...guess what?...you're likely as not going to have o make that choice anyway

Just a couple rules off the top of my head that differentiates G5 schools from FCS schools
-- Teams allowed to count only one FCS win towards bowl eligibility; It would be much cheaper for a P5 team to bring in a couple of FCS teams for bowl eligibility considering the going rate for a home game with a MAC school is $1mil+ and for an FCS it's well under $500,000; So, if there's no perceived difference between us and Indiana State, then why spend the extra money?
-- Philosophical view of strength of schedule towards qualification for the playoff; Schools NEED us rather than FCS opponents for the strength of schedule boost

Admittedly, most rules have certainly been designed to push the $$ towards the bigger schools. But it's not with the notion of pushing the G5 schools out. It's with the notion of one-upping each other. They aren't concerned with trying to outdo us. They are concerned with trying to outdo each other.

If we are able to spend appropriately at a level consistent with the rest of the MAC, there's no reason we can't continue doing what we do (competing for MAC titles, picking off lower tier P5 schools, playing in bowl games, getting some national attention, and playing on TV with a national television package). I'm not suggesting we are positioned to win a national championship. But we are in GREAT shape.

[Flipper]

If a truck runs you over...does it matter if the driver meant to hit you?

[FalconTurf]

In the last couple months the following have been majority opinions about our MAC Championship winning team:

1) We shouldn't spend money on football.
2) We should seriously consider dropping to lower divisions.
3) It's good and right that our best players didn't get drafted.
4) It's awesome that one of our best returning player transferred.
On a Bowling Green message board. Talk about being at a loss for words. I'd hate to see what they think on the Toledo board.

I hardly think this is the majority view but, I think we better go forward with our eyes wide open vs. blindly thinking the university is an ATM with unlimited resources for football or any other extra expense. Before we go forward with debt or student funds for stadium renovation or additional facilities we better understand that many of our fellow mid-major schools may be sliding back in status. How far can we go to maintain our current status? Even with our recent and historical success the program is not funding itself. I will continue with my Falcon Club membership and season ticket purchase and many more are going to need to join me if we stand a chance to weather the financial land mines we are navigating.