Big trouble at the U of T

Post by **ZiggyZoomba** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:35 pm

TG1996 wrote:
ZiggyZoomba wrote:Blade "Breaking news" from an afternoon presser at UT.
Are you a shill for the Blade or something???

Something like that.... what's a shill?

TG1996 · Post by **TG1996** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:37 pm

ZiggyZoomba wrote:Something like that.... what's a shill?

Ask Maureen when she delivers your next check.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:38 pm

ZiggyZoomba wrote:
TG1996 wrote:
ZiggyZoomba wrote:Blade "Breaking news" from an afternoon presser at UT.
Are you a shill for the Blade or something???
Something like that.... what's a shill?

I think it's Zimbabwean currency. Or a starter for the Red Sox. I forget which.

BGDrew · Post by **BGDrew** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:55 am

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2823507

The plot thickens. What worries me the most is that he talks about another MAC team that he refuses to disclose. He noticed the betting patterns in 2004 and the only thing I could think of was how prominent we were that year along with Miami coming off the heels of Big Ben.....God this is a bad situation.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:58 am

BGDrew wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2823507

The plot thickens. What worries me the most is that he talks about another MAC team that he refuses to disclose. He noticed the betting patterns in 2004 and the only thing I could think of was how prominent we were that year along with Miami coming off the heels of Big Ben.....God this is a bad situation.

I hate Scooter for making me think this.....but our record against the spread the last few years is pretty bad. I'm a lot more comfortable chalking it up to poor coaching.

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:46 am

ESPN.com talked to an oddsmaker who said the amount of money being laid on Toledo games was just weird.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2823507

Of note:

The oddsmaker, Kenny White, chief operating officer of Las Vegas Sports Consultants, said that beginning in the 2004 season he and his associates noticed that there was heavy betting on certain Toledo football games and those of another Mid-American Conference team he declined to name.

"But then it stopped and it was just Toledo," he said.

JoeFalcon · Post by **JoeFalcon** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:36 am

Globetrotter: I'm sorry if you felt singled out. Your comment just struck a different tone with me because it had already assumed involevment, guilt and skipped right on to the penalty stage. It was just a hypothetical and I know you wouldn't wish such a fate on BG.

This is UT's baby and we all know it.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:22 am

Actually, if you read the post right above yours, it appears there might be one more team involved, although not for very long.

If it stops at UT, all the better for everyone. It's bad enough for our conference as it is.

Globetrotter · Post by **Globetrotter** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:25 am

orangeandbrown wrote:Actually, if you read the post right above yours, it appears there might be one more team involved, although not for very long.

If it stops at UT, all the better for everyone. It's bad enough for our conference as it is.

Unless it is UT and OSU.....

JoeFalcon · Post by **JoeFalcon** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:36 am

orangeandbrown wrote:Actually, if you read the post right above yours, it appears there might be one more team involved, although not for very long.

If it stops at UT, all the better for everyone. It's bad enough for our conference as it is.

Actually, I'd need a lot more than that to automatically lump another school in with UT right now. Give me a detailed indictment, or any indictment that cares to mention another school in any capacity.

I still fail to see how this is so catastrophic for 11 other schools that had nothing to do with it. These cases have happened before in NCAA history and the conferences the perpetrators happened to participate in haven't been tarnished.

orangeandbrown · Post by **orangeandbrown** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:37 am

I said "might."

I said bad. You said catastrophic.

JoeFalcon · Post by **JoeFalcon** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:55 am

orangeandbrown wrote:I said "might."

I said bad. You said catastrophic.

That's a hefty "might" to start drawing parallels to the depth of McDougal's involvement and the alleged operation at UT. Rick Majerus is a former MAC coach currently out of coaching and we *might* hire him for our open job, but I'd need more than that to move beyond tangential connections and start taking his candidacy seriously.

How about an "unfortunate situation" (a tad milder) for the conference and "bad" for Toledo? The Pac-10 seems to have sufficiently survived after Arizona State went through something comparable in the 1990's.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:28 am

JoeFalcon wrote:
orangeandbrown wrote:I said "might."

I said bad. You said catastrophic.
That's a hefty "might" to start drawing parallels to the depth of McDougal's involvement and the alleged operation at UT. Rick Majerus is a former MAC coach currently out of coaching and we *might* hire him for our open job, but I'd need more than that to move beyond tangential connections and start taking his candidacy seriously.

How about an "unfortunate situation" (a tad milder) for the conference and "bad" for Toledo? The Pac-10 seems to have sufficiently survived after Arizona State went through something comparable in the 1990's.

Perception is reality to a lot of folks. The perception is that Toledo, and the MAC are dirty. Ever heard of "guilt by association"? Or "You're judged by the company you keep"? Yeah, they're cliches, but they ring true for an awful lot of people out there.

You're right, there's not a shred of evidence whatsoever that suggests we have any problems like this. But until all the facts come out in the Toledo case, which may be never, BG and all the other MAC teams are going to get looked at a little harder by the general public.

To think that there will be no negative publicity for any team not in Toledo because of this is incredibly naive.

San Diego Falcon · Post by **San Diego Falcon** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:37 am

That ESPN article is consistent with reports that some Nevada sportsbooks don't carry the line for any Toledo games.

NWLB · Post by **NWLB** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:15 pm

At first I thought UT was not going to interview more athletes, seeking to avoid more bad PR. Now it is clear they are not doing so, as to avoid getting into the middle of a legal investigation, and putting both themselves and the athletes in legal danger for comments they might make.

This could prove far more wide-spread than first reported, meaning not just UT football, but also basketball, maybe even men and women’s both.

Stutz sounded a bit shaken in his sound-bite. Or maybe his mouth was full.

I was looking over NCAA rules on such things. Depending on how many students were involved, this could have possibly wide ranging affects on rosters of several programs. However, thus far, with the exception of the SMU Death Penalty case, I’ve not seen any school penalized itself. But if any wiff of this tracks back to somebody inside the programs……..wow. And then you have to wonder if this might not involve past athletes, and will somebody cut a deal.

I’m immensely curious as to the impact this could have, but even being UT that we are talking about, I’m also a bit horrified watching this unfold. Obviously I wonder about who the other MAC school was, but its hard to know. The betting on “the other school” might not mean that somebody was paying somebody off, as much as it was clear that school was going to blow the spread by wide margins. Local betters might know enough to put big money on a high-scoring MAC team, which would spike that schools numbers.

As the Blade said, this will hurt UT just as it is trying to raise major money for sports, while a president, who is NOT a big sports fan, is seeking to remake the school into a respectable academic institution on par with the one that took it over. I’ve read his comments to the effect of wanting to see the value sports brings UT, before making massive commitments to sports. Plus this will in fact taint any future consideration pipe-smoking UT fans hope their school gets from other conferences. Then there is the possible effect on having a UT Lifer as head coach, and his ability to pull in top assistants.