Is anyone still not sold on Babers?

[AyZiggy97]

I am asking this question to see if I need redirected or not, but after seeing so many ups and downs this season, coming off the clinching of another division title and trip to Detroit, I just don't feel settled with Dino Babers as our coach yet.

Positives - He seems like a nice guy, polished and carries himself well, has an exciting offense and decent coaching track record. Will probably recruit well. Beat Indiana, won the division with a back-up QB and has kept the team in tact morale wise.

Negatives - DEFENSE is not a priority. Seems to be a self-promoter for a bigger job. Let us get us destroyed and embarrassed by Western KY. and Wisconsin. Was handed a Ferrari and brought home a Cadillac. Have not really BEAT down a team no matter how inferior with this high-powered offense in a weak Division in the East.

I'm not hung up on Clawson leaving and what he did for the program. I just want to feel better about our coach and future...a win over Foledo and another MAC championship will do it!!

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. What evidence is there that Dino Babers doesn't consider defense a priority? It's extremely unfair to make that accusation based on early struggles. The poor performance can't seriously be taken as a sign of importance.

Dino Babers let us get destroyed by Western Kentucky? I have no idea what that means.

If Babers is a self promoter eager for a bigger job, then what the hell is our athletic director? He has the exact same type of personality. Everyone there is hoping for a bigger stage. Occassionally BG will have a Danny Schmitz or Denise Van De Walle, but they're few and far between. Gary Blackney hung around waiting for the job he wanted and it backfired. Urban Meyer bolted at the first opportunity. It worked out great for him and the program appeared to be in good shape. Same with Clawson.

Do we honestly think Chris Jans is more committed to BG than Dino Babers? If a Big 10 school wanted Jennifer Roos would she turn it down?

Not for nothing, but I'm uneasy with the description of polished in that post.

[Falconwriter]

#BeatToledo

If he can do this AND repeat as MAC champs, I'll definitely be sold -- and he'll most likely move on.

It's a trade I'll make every year, if necessary. I said last year I'd trade bringing in a new coach every year if it meant the team had won the MAC championship (but I am now saying they have to beat Toledo as well...Clawson was putrid at that, and I am sick of losing to them.)

[Schadenfreude]

I am asking this question to see if I need redirected or not, but after seeing so many ups and downs this season, coming off the clinching of another division title and trip to Detroit, I just don't feel settled with Dino Babers as our coach yet.

Positives - He seems like a nice guy, polished and carries himself well, has an exciting offense and decent coaching track record. Will probably recruit well. Beat Indiana, won the division with a back-up QB and has kept the team in tact morale wise.

Negatives - DEFENSE is not a priority. Seems to be a self-promoter for a bigger job. Let us get us destroyed and embarrassed by Western KY. and Wisconsin. Was handed a Ferrari and brought home a Cadillac. Have not really BEAT down a team no matter how inferior with this high-powered offense in a weak Division in the East.

I'm not hung up on Clawson leaving and what he did for the program. I just want to feel better about our coach and future...a win over Foledo and another MAC championship will do it!!

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. What evidence is there that Dino Babers doesn't consider defense a priority? It's extremely unfair to make that accusation based on early struggles. The poor performance can't seriously be taken as a sign of importance.

Dino Babers let us get destroyed by Western Kentucky? I have no idea what that means.

If Babers is a self promoter eager for a bigger job, then what the hell is our athletic director? He has the exact same type of personality. Everyone there is hoping for a bigger stage. Occassionally BG will have a Danny Schmitz or Denise Van De Walle, but they're few and far between. Gary Blackney hung around waiting for the job he wanted and it backfired. Urban Meyer bolted at the first opportunity. It worked out great for him and the program appeared to be in good shape. Same with Clawson.

Do we honestly think Chris Jans is more committed to BG than Dino Babers? If a Big 10 school wanted Jennifer Roos would she turn it down?

Not for nothing, but I'm uneasy with the description of polished in that post.

Excellent post. I share your uneasiness.

As far as MAC coaches leaving for a new opportunity: The ones that tend to get offers are the ones most spoken of as conference coach of the year candidates. I haven't heard much buzz about Babers as MAC coach of the year.

Someone mentioned Fleck: That makes more sense to me, both as a potential 2014 MAC coach of the year and as a guy who may be getting other offers soon. His accomplishment is more clear: Western Michigan is historically a second-rate MAC program, and he's elevated them into a contender.

[hammb]

I think the existence of this thread (and the general attitude towards Babers since day 1) just goes to show that there is something about him that people don't like.

I don't get it, I love his brashness. I love his attitude. He doesn't strike me as a self promoter that is trying to get the next big job, at all. He strikes me as a guy who is cocky, knows he's damn good at what he does, has confidence in his systems, his coaches, and his players. He is just, unlike most coaches, willing to go out there and TELL you he knows how good his team can be. I don't really see this as a problem at all.

I also see him as coaching an exciting style of offense and defense that will almost sell itself to recruits. Combine that with his personality (which I think will play VERY well with young athletes) and I think you've got an ultimate recruiter. Certainly his exploits as recruiting coordinator at Baylor would seem to indicate he's a great recruiter. It may be difficult to remember now but when Briles (and Babers) got to Baylor it was NOT a place you could recruit talent...and they did.

I really don't get the criticism of Babers, and I'm pretty well sold on him, as I have been since day 1. Yeah he took over the defending MAC champs, but contrary to common belief he hasn't run this team into the ground. He's gone through the entire season with the backup QB and injuries all over the board. He took over a defense that lost nearly its entire secondary. Still, he has the team in the exact same spot they were last year, except this year they also have a win over a Big10 team on the resume. Sure it's been ugly at times. Sure we would have liked to steamroll some teams. But with our injury situation I just don't think that was realistic.

I'm not saying I think Babers is here for the next decade...I don't ever think we'll ever have a coach here for a decade that we actually WANT here. That's just not the way life in the MAC works. But I do think he'll be here for at least another few years, and while he's here I think all of you will eventually come around on him. Clawson built the foundation, and did a fantastic job of it, but I think Babers is the guy that's going to give this thing some curb appeal and make it look pretty.

[Flipper]

Agree wholeheartedly with hammb...I do not understand the whole "Babers is too cocky" line of thought. You WANT a coach who will put his butt on the line like that. Look at PJ Fleck...yeah, he seems like a real toolbox to people not associated wth WMU, but he's been a hell of a recruiter and because of that, he's probably got the best team going in the MAC right now. Hell...he has a number Toledo fans resigned to the fact that they won't be winning the west for a t least a few more years.

[Schadenfreude]

Agree wholeheartedly with hammb...

I do, too.

"I do not understand the whole "Babers is too cocky" line of thought.

Or this talk about Babers as someone who "carries himself well."

[Schadenfreude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DePjG71zttQ&t=1m42s" target="_blank

[Globetrotter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DePjG71zttQ&t=1m42s

Thats not really fair. Babers is very charismatic. Urban Meyer isn't.

[Rightupinthere]

I admit that I arched an eyebrow at Babers's selection. I thought moving to an entirely different system would set us back. Through the first few games, the arched eyebrow began to furrow and I equated Babers to Brandon.

Then I attended the Homecoming game. I was on the field next to the tunnel as the team came out to start. After the team came the walking wounded. Holy sh*t were they numbered. At that point, I shut the hell up and backed down significantly. I wasn't being fair under the circumstances and I realized it at that point.

I currently have slight reservations with the current staff but I had some reservations with Clawson as well (he won the games that counted but couldn't win the perceptual "big games".) The upside was Clawson was an excellent program manager. He was also a very good game manager, recruiter, and a student of the game. To Babers's credit, he is an attack-minded coach working with certain proven system who forces the opposition to adjust to his game versus the other way around. So far, he's kept the program clean and heading in a positive direction.

Where I still have some reservations with Babers (as I likely will with every coach), I'm going to continue enjoying the ride of this season. If he bolts, so what? cést le MAC. I will continue to support my fellow falcons be they players, students, or alumni. That will never change.

[Globetrotter]

I think the existence of this thread (and the general attitude towards Babers since day 1) just goes to show that there is something about him that people don't like.

I don't get it, I love his brashness. I love his attitude. He doesn't strike me as a self promoter that is trying to get the next big job, at all. He strikes me as a guy who is cocky, knows he's damn good at what he does, has confidence in his systems, his coaches, and his players. He is just, unlike most coaches, willing to go out there and TELL you he knows how good his team can be. I don't really see this as a problem at all.

I also see him as coaching an exciting style of offense and defense that will almost sell itself to recruits. Combine that with his personality (which I think will play VERY well with young athletes) and I think you've got an ultimate recruiter. Certainly his exploits as recruiting coordinator at Baylor would seem to indicate he's a great recruiter. It may be difficult to remember now but when Briles (and Babers) got to Baylor it was NOT a place you could recruit talent...and they did.

I really don't get the criticism of Babers, and I'm pretty well sold on him, as I have been since day 1. Yeah he took over the defending MAC champs, but contrary to common belief he hasn't run this team into the ground. He's gone through the entire season with the backup QB and injuries all over the board. He took over a defense that lost nearly its entire secondary. Still, he has the team in the exact same spot they were last year, except this year they also have a win over a Big10 team on the resume. Sure it's been ugly at times. Sure we would have liked to steamroll some teams. But with our injury situation I just don't think that was realistic.

I'm not saying I think Babers is here for the next decade...I don't ever think we'll ever have a coach here for a decade that we actually WANT here. That's just not the way life in the MAC works. But I do think he'll be here for at least another few years, and while he's here I think all of you will eventually come around on him. Clawson built the foundation, and did a fantastic job of it, but I think Babers is the guy that's going to give this thing some curb appeal and make it look pretty.

I really respect you and always think that you present logical points.

Personally for me, when it comes to the brashness I really hate it. I hate it in coaches, players, at work etc. and I don't really allow it in my personal life. There is something to be said about letting your work speak for yourself. Not having to say how good you are and just being good, letting your actions show it. That's the type of people I surround myself with and the type I really admire in athletics. I do agree with your statement that it's a good recruiting tool but there are tons of coaches that are successful without being that way. It's not like it's the only way. And it may actually recruit players that I don't want to root for.

I think it's possible you were sold on him from day 1 so you have not stopped to think if you foreclosed on that opinion. I don't fault you for that I do that all the time with things. You can't watch how awful the defense was for the first 4 games and not have questions. The offense has been fine but not as advertised. But he said it wouldnt be and lost his QB.

For me I could go either way on him. I don't love him and don't hate him. I think his offense could be as you said, and take us to the next level. That would be great. But then he will leave and we start over again. It will be interesting to see where we go with the next coach and keeping his system. FWIW I have no doubt that he will be successful here and get a bigger job. I think that says a ton in itself.

[MarkL]

All I can think of with this thread at this point ...

[hammb]

I really respect you and always think that you present logical points.

Personally for me, when it comes to the brashness I really hate it. I hate it in coaches, players, at work etc. and I don't really allow it in my personal life. There is something to be said about letting your work speak for yourself. Not having to say how good you are and just being good, letting your actions show it. That's the type of people I surround myself with and the type I really admire in athletics. I do agree with your statement that it's a good recruiting tool but there are tons of coaches that are successful without being that way. It's not like it's the only way. And it may actually recruit players that I don't want to root for.

I think it's possible you were sold on him from day 1 so you have not stopped to think if you foreclosed on that opinion. I don't fault you for that I do that all the time with things. You can't watch how awful the defense was for the first 4 games and not have questions. The offense has been fine but not as advertised. But he said it wouldnt be and lost his QB.

For me I could go either way on him. I don't love him and don't hate him. I think his offense could be as you said, and take us to the next level. That would be great. But then he will leave and we start over again. It will be interesting to see where we go with the next coach and keeping his system. FWIW I have no doubt that he will be successful here and get a bigger job. I think that says a ton in itself.

I'll readily admit that I was sold on Babers from day 1; I was sold on Clawson from day 1 as well. For completely different reasons, and I found myself having to defend Clawson for years too. How many times did we hear how awful Clawson was because the one year at Tennessee? That being said even though I was sold on Clawson right away, and never wanted him gone in his tenure, I was definitely critical of his offensive scheme/playcalling. I felt (and still do) that it limited the ceiling on the program with him in charge, and that bared itself out when we played UT, bowl games, etc.

Despite being sold on Dino right away, and still being sold on him, I'm not above criticizing him in the least. I was as annoyed as anyone with the defensive performance early on, but I don't feel that was a case of bad coaching as much as it was a case of a perfect storm coming together. We combined 1) new systems (one of which speeds the game up making it more difficult for defense), 2) a rash of injuries, 3) we lost a lot more secondary talent than people wanted to admit. I was upset with the performance, as everyone would be, but unlike most I wasn't ready to say that Babers took over a great defense and turned it into the worst in the country of his own volition...I don't feel that he deserved the blame there; I still don't.

I am not pleased with the development of this offense. I'll readily admit I felt we'd be further along on that side of the ball by this point in the season. I'm unsure if the blame for that falls on Babers or the loss of Matt Johnson. I'm pleased with how Knapke has played overall, but he has definitely started to show some limitations lately, and I do believe that is hampering what Babers would like to be doing. Obviously it's the coaches' jobs to get him playing at a high level, but I'm willing to withhold criticism on that until I see him A) play a season with his projected starter, and B) bring in some of his own guys.

As for the future? I don't even care to think about it. All good MAC coaches bolt. Most of them will do it at the very first opportunity. Personally, I've always said a coach that is happy staying at BG forever is a coach that I likely don't want at BG. Curt MIller was an obvious exception to that, but for the most part I feel the drive that it takes to become a great coach will also lend itself to wanting to move on from what BG can offer. And I'm fine with that. We heard the same "Clawson will just use us for another job" stuff when he got here as well, and we still got 5 years out of him. I don't think it's inconceivable that we get 5 years out of Babers, although he didn't inherit a dumpster fire that Clawson did so if he's all that he'll probably bolt earlier. But I don't let that thought color my opinions of any coach here. I think Jans will leave. I think Kingston will leave. I want all of them to stick around for a long time, but I don't expect it.


And when Dino leaves I will say the same as I always do. Go out and find another great coach. Don't worry about changing systems. Don't just promote internally. Go out and find the very best candidate for the job and move on from there.

[Lord_Byron]

We just won the MAC East for the second year in a row. We're going to the MACC Game and a bowl game.

I've chosen to enjoy it. I've suffered through many bad seasons in many BG sports, and have decided that when the good ones come along, I'm going to savor every minute of it.

Don't care who the coach is, don't care if we win by 50 or by 5. When we win, I'm happy and I savor it.

And, for what it's worth, I agree with Hammb, Flipper and Schad. and their upthread comments.

[hammb]

We just won the MAC East for the second year in a row. We're going to the MACC Game and a bowl game.
.

I've enjoyed this season quite a bit. We haven't been a dominant team rolling over everybody, but that's not exactly exciting anyhow. We've played a lot of good games that have come down to key plays being made in the 4th quarter. We've been on the winning side of most of those games.

This has been a fun season, with the only real downside being that we didn't have a single Saturday evening game for a full day long tailgate. Still, been a great ride, and I'm thinking about venturing up to Detroit as well.

[Falconfreak90]

Been a very exciting season...I've paced quite a bit this year. To be going back to Detroit is simply awesome. GO BG