browns backup qb article

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:29 pm

hammb:

Accurate on all counts. Thanks for responding while I was digging through NFL draft history!

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:38 pm

1987alum wrote:hammb:

Accurate on all counts. Thanks for responding while I was digging through NFL draft history!

No prob '87.

BTW, just pulled this off a thread from the Browns board. Not sure of the credibility of the poster, but I'll trust any 1st hand training camp reports I can get, since they're better than media fluff and I cannot get to camp.

I have been to all but three practices, and have seen growth in Johnson's game. However he had along way to go.

He could not hit a stationary ball boy from 20 yards the first two days of camp.

Frye has continued to improve.

Harris has leveled off a little bit, but is still out performing Johnson.

Johnson to me is just insurance.

This info kinda goes along with the insider info I pasted earlier. It sounds as though Harris is outperforming Johnson, but he's not really been overly impressive. It sounds as though Frye may have passed both of them in how they're playing so far. Josh cannot afford to level off, however, as his potential is the one thing that he needs to keep to beat Johnson for the roster spot.

If they're deemed as near equals and the Browns coaching staff doesn't think Harris has much upside they'll keep the guy with NFL experience...regardless of how poor he's performed in that NFL experience.

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:44 pm

hammb:

I think the last point is quite important. Josh must clearly outperform Johnson to get the spot. If the coaching staff sees it as a toss up, you're probably right, they will keep someone with experience.

I wonder if Frye is a lock for the #3 spot or if the staff may be willing to push him to the #2 spot in his rookie year.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:53 pm

what kind of salaries/cap numbers do J5 and Dougie have. I'm assuming Josh makes much less simply because of veteran minimum rules. Do we think that if it is a toss-up they may keep J5 over Johnson because of money concerns? I'm unfamiliar with the Brownies cap situation but would assume they are well under the cap.

Redwingtom · Post by **Redwingtom** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:11 pm

Jacobs4Heisman wrote:what kind of salaries/cap numbers do J5 and Dougie have. I'm assuming Josh makes much less simply because of veteran minimum rules. Do we think that if it is a toss-up they may keep J5 over Johnson because of money concerns? I'm unfamiliar with the Brownies cap situation but would assume they are well under the cap.

Funny...I was going to make the same point...if Johnson is only going to be the number 3, then why pay him that much more money than what Harris would probably have to be paid. The Clowns aren't going anywhere with Difler and a patch-work OL anyway.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:20 pm

Redwingtom wrote: The Clowns aren't going anywhere with Difler and a patch-work OL anyway.

While they may not be the best, Shelton, Colemon, and Andruzzi are a HUGE improvement over what the Browns have had in the past.

BGALUMNI · Post by **BGALUMNI** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:29 pm

1987alum wrote:Just for the sake of this discussion ... sure, Bulger and Brady were late picks. But let's not forget where the overwhelming majority of QBs drafted in the sixth round end up.

To wit, QBs drafted in the 6th round -

2004: Andy Hall (Delaware), Josh Harris (BGSU), Jim Sorgi (Wisky), Jeff Smoker (Michigan State)

2003: Drew Henson (Michigan), Brooks Bollinger (Wisky), Kliff Kingsbury (Texas Tech).

2002: J.T. O'Sullivan (Cal-Davis)

2001: Josh Booty (LSU), Josh Heupel (Oklahoma)

2000: The aforementioned Marc Bulger (West Virginia), Spergon Wynn (West Texas State), the aforementioned Tom Brady (Michigan), Todd Husak (Stanford), JaJuan Seider (Florida A&M)

1999: No QBs drafted in the sixth; Kevin Daft of UC-Davis was the only QB drafted in the fifth round and three QBs - Michael Bishop (Kansas State), Chris Greisen (NWMizzou), Scott Covington (Miami) - all went in the 7th.

1998: John Dutton (Nevada), Matt Hasselbeck (BC)

1997: Mike Cherry (Murray State), Chuck Clements (Houston)

1996: Spence Fischer (Duke), Mike Cawley (James Madison)

1995: Jerry Colquitt (Tenn.), Craig Whelihan (Pacific)

1994: Jim Miller (Michigan State)

1993: No QBs taken in the 6th.

Jim Miller had an NFL career, not great but was a starter. Covington hung around, as has Hasselbeck. Smoker is still on the Rams roster so far this season as well.

You can go through the list of 1st round picks and find just as many disappointments and QBs that never made it as well.

The only point was that to say you might be watching the end of Harris and his NFL career if he doesn't do well, is just a little overly dramatic.

Bulger wasn't the #2 QB for the Rams out of camp. Jamie Martin was. Bulger was pretty well forced into play because of injury. Tom Brady was behind Michael Bishop at the start of the season for New England as well.

So they were not the lock at #2 right out of the gate.

From 1st hand reports, sometimes camp isn't everything it appears. Some of the camp sweethearts might not be making the impression you think and vice versa. You just never know what you are going until that final cut is made.

We will see. The great thing about both Frye and Harris is that it won't cost the team that much money. Johnson is not the future. I think most people would say that. (He could be, but the chances are is that he isn't going to be the QB of the Browns future.)

As it has been discussed deeply on most boards, the backup QB position is only important if you are challenging and your starter goes down. If you are in the basement or just below water, it isn't going to matter. Sure if the Browns figured to be in playoff contention this season, it would matter, but do you guys think that is where the team is?

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:30 pm

The Browns are well under the cap, so I'm not sure that its an issue.

FWIW, Harris signed a 3 year $982,000 contract last summer. Assuming that that is a slight raise each fo the 3 years he's probably somewhere in the $300k range this season. Johnson signed a 1 year deal for $540k. In the end, I don't think that difference is going to be any factor in who makes the team.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:34 pm

hammb wrote:The Browns are well under the cap, so I'm not sure that its an issue.

FWIW, Harris signed a 3 year $982,000 contract last summer. Assuming that that is a slight raise each fo the 3 years he's probably somewhere in the $300k range this season. Johnson signed a 1 year deal for $540k. In the end, I don't think that difference is going to be any factor in who makes the team.

rats -- I was hoping Dougie fresh was around a mil. I wasn't sure how long he had been around. Josh better start playing his ass off starting with the first preseason game.

Whoever calls them meaningless isn't following the careers of too many 6th round draft picks and UDFAs =)