Hammb,
Couldn't agree more that you have got to have your best athletes on the field no matter whether it is offense, defense, special teams, the coin toss, etc. It was just that this particular situation was about as hopeless as it gets. Normally, you are on-side kicking from the 30, and hope to get the ball around your own 45. Usually there is some time on the clock so you can run a few plays before having to heave it to the end zone. But in the Browns game, the kick came from the twenty (so we lost 10 yards already) and there was going to be only time for one play even if the Browns recovered. It was the most desperate of desperate situations. It could only have been worse if the Browns were down by eight. Then they would have needed to recover an on-side kick, complete a 65 yard hail mary, and make a two-point conversion in the span of eight seconds. All that just to force OT where they still might have lost.
At any rate, it looks like another wasted draft for Butch Davis. Trading two picks to get Winslow and he is likely out for the season. Trading two picks to move in to pick the safety from Georgia (Jones?) and he is out for the season. Geez, when we get these guys back next year and the likely high first and second round picks we get after another disappointing season, it will be like we had 4 picks in the top 40 next year year since Winslow, Jones, and the two picks in 2005 will all basically be starting their first full season.
The wonder and glory of DVRs.
Sure, it is the most desperate of desperate situations. Do you not still have your best 11 guys out there trying? I have seen too much in football games to EVER throw in the towel. As it was we DID recover the kick. We DID have a chance at a hailmary, but Keyshaun made the nice play (although it wasn't quite endzone bound anyway).Warthog wrote:Hammb,
Couldn't agree more that you have got to have your best athletes on the field no matter whether it is offense, defense, special teams, the coin toss, etc. It was just that this particular situation was about as hopeless as it gets. Normally, you are on-side kicking from the 30, and hope to get the ball around your own 45. Usually there is some time on the clock so you can run a few plays before having to heave it to the end zone. But in the Browns game, the kick came from the twenty (so we lost 10 yards already) and there was going to be only time for one play even if the Browns recovered. It was the most desperate of desperate situations. It could only have been worse if the Browns were down by eight. Then they would have needed to recover an on-side kick, complete a 65 yard hail mary, and make a two-point conversion in the span of eight seconds. All that just to force OT where they still might have lost.
It was a billion to one. Perhaps having Winslow and your other best hands guys out there made it a 500,000,000:1. That's a pretty big improvement in your odds. I'd still do it, every time.
I'm with you how much it sucks though. Hindsight is 20/20 and obviously if you said someone was going to get hurt on that play I wouldn't have had Kellen in there, but you cannot think that way. I don't look kindly on giving up, as noticed by my comments here after last year's Miami(OH) game. I don't care how desperate the situation looks, if there is still a chance, no matter how miniscule, I have my best 11 out there going 100%
Well, actually the surgery revealed good news for Kellen. There was no damage outside of the bone, and there were no complications. It looks highly likely now that he'll be playing for the last 5-6 games of the season. That is great news as that will give him some much needed experience so next year is not his rookie year.At any rate, it looks like another wasted draft for Butch Davis. Trading two picks to get Winslow and he is likely out for the season. Trading two picks to move in to pick the safety from Georgia (Jones?) and he is out for the season. Geez, when we get these guys back next year and the likely high first and second round picks we get after another disappointing season, it will be like we had 4 picks in the top 40 next year year since Winslow, Jones, and the two picks in 2005 will all basically be starting their first full season.
Poor Butch. Even when he comes out of the draft looking awesome it blows up in his face. Right now their picks look like:
1) Kellen Winslow -> out 6-8 weeks. To be reevaluated during bye week (Oct 31).
2) Sean Jones -> torn ACL in mini camp. Currently on PUP list. Means he can sit for I think 10 or 12 weeks before re-evaluation. At that point must either be put on IR (out for season) or back on the active roster. Early on there was talk he MIGHT be able to play, since it was in minicamp. Will obviously depend on his rehab and speed of healing.
4) Luke McCown -> promising preseason. Will play backup role, but may see time with this OL.
5) Amon Gordon -> Inactive for all games, but on roster.
6) Kirk Chambers -> Inactive for all games, but on roster.
7) Adimchinobe Echemandu -> Reserve non-football injury, likely won't play this year.
Just to clarify, I was not against Winslow being in on that play. I was just saying it is unfortunate for anyone to get hurt in that situation when the outcome was a bleak as it was even if they recovered the ball. I hope K2 heels quickly and gets a chance to play again this year. And if he does, I hope Garcia figures out that he is the most athletic guy on the offense, so GET HIM THE DAMN BALL! :rant:
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools."
- Ernest Hemingway
- Ernest Hemingway
Okay, our position is the same, I just wasn't sure where you were coming from. I do agree how much it sucks that it had to be a pure desperation play he got hurt on, but it happens.Warthog wrote:Just to clarify, I was not against Winslow being in on that play. I was just saying it is unfortunate for anyone to get hurt in that situation when the outcome was a bleak as it was even if they recovered the ball. I hope K2 heels quickly and gets a chance to play again this year. And if he does, I hope Garcia figures out that he is the most athletic guy on the offense, so GET HIM THE DAMN BALL! :rant:
With our OL I expect Garcia to have 2 broken legs by the time Kellen is playing again
You forgot that he is also the only one who can catch the freakin' ball! :rant:
I don't want to defend Garcia too much, because he played like crap, but...Warthog wrote: Well, it seems like the Cowboy defense wasn't having problems catching Garcia's throws.
One of those INTs was a situation where Morgan stopped his route and let the DB jump it and didn't even TRY to make a play on the ball. Another of which hit his intended receiver in the numbers only to bounce into the DB's hands. Of course that particular play was 3rd & about 10 and he throws a 4 yard pass to a RB
In all, that game was ugly.
I agree that Garcia wasn't to blame for all the INTs but when you get a QB rating of 0.0, then I think some of the blame has to fall there.hammb wrote:I don't want to defend Garcia too much, because he played like crap, but...Warthog wrote: Well, it seems like the Cowboy defense wasn't having problems catching Garcia's throws.
One of those INTs was a situation where Morgan stopped his route and let the DB jump it and didn't even TRY to make a play on the ball. Another of which hit his intended receiver in the numbers only to bounce into the DB's hands. Of course that particular play was 3rd & about 10 and he throws a 4 yard pass to a RB
In all, that game was ugly.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools."
- Ernest Hemingway
- Ernest Hemingway
No arguments here. Hell McCown comes in and throws a hail mary for an incompletion and STILL got a rating of like 37.6 or something!Warthog wrote:I agree that Garcia wasn't to blame for all the INTs but when you get a QB rating of 0.0, then I think some of the blame has to fall there.hammb wrote:I don't want to defend Garcia too much, because he played like crap, but...Warthog wrote: Well, it seems like the Cowboy defense wasn't having problems catching Garcia's throws.
One of those INTs was a situation where Morgan stopped his route and let the DB jump it and didn't even TRY to make a play on the ball. Another of which hit his intended receiver in the numbers only to bounce into the DB's hands. Of course that particular play was 3rd & about 10 and he throws a 4 yard pass to a RB
In all, that game was ugly.
LOL