Brandon Curtis

[Flipper]

The other arguments seemed completely obvious save to someone completely obtuse.

1. Larger objects are more difficult to move.
2. Name one DT in the NFL under 285 pounds. The NFL is a for profit product. Teams try to win, to gain fans and money. If the best Defensive Tackles go on to the NFL and no defensive tackles in the NFL weigh under 285. It would seem desirous to have larger, less easily moved defenders on the DL.
3. Snowmen sleep in the Sea.

Hmmmm....ok....let's go point by point.

1) Somewhat valid, but as our friend Konishiki proved in Sumo, size is not as important as technique. This is as true in football as it is in Sumo.

2) Completely irrelevant. The requirements to play in the NFL have nothing to do with the requirements to play in the MAC. (Brandon Hicks was an all MAC DT in this decade at 260lbs).... Apples and oranges comparison. I like oranges, don't care much for apples.

3) At last...you are making some sense here. People think snowmen melt. They don't. They get up and wander off towards the north pole to sleep away the summer in the cold northern waters. Their summertime habitat is shrinking due to global warming. Al Gore didn't mention this Inconvenient Truth because he's a wuss. Give up your car and start walking or the snowmen will DIE

[Jacobs4Heisman]

Size is not as important in a 4-3 defense. A premium is placed on penetration and athleticism on the d-line in a 4-3.

The fact we were small was not the whole problem last year. The fact that we were not talented or deep was more of a factor than size. I know a dude that's 310. We could stick him on the DL and watch him piss himself as he gets his nuts pushed around by O-lineman that are 280. Size is part of it, but it isn't nearly everything.


Does Falconboy or anybody else around here actually think that that the coaching staff had this discussion?

Brandon: "I was thinking of moving Curtis to backup center"

Lovett: "He's a much better d-lineman -- in fact, I think he'll save our defense this year"

Brandon: "Yeah, but I'm itching to get fired"

Lovett: "Good point -- let's move him"

The idea that we can not question a coaches decision is absurd. Many people make livings off of doing just that. I do not mean to present the idea that I am smarter than the coaches. The coaches are clearly more knowledgable with this team. That does not mean that coaches are infallible and that the decision to move someone from a very small very thin line to a deep line can not be questioned. Of course Brandon had a reason. We have not heard that reason. It may be a great reason. That does not mean that we can not question the reason.

Yikes -- apparently you're unaware that I question the coaches as much as anyone around here. It's just silly in this case.

You didn't address my point of a 4-3 vs. a 3-4 and it's ramifications on D-line requirements. Nor did you address the fact that we had an amazing d-line in 2001 that was virtually the same size as our crappy unit from last year.

Another interesting fact - Michigan had a couple huge and talented DTs last year. One was already drafted, and the other one will be. Michigan's interior D was smelly last year. How do you explain that one if size is such an end all be all for DTs? The only logical conclusion to all these facts is that there are many many factors that go into being a quality lineman. Size is just one of them. There are some others we assume we know like technique, quickness, athleticism, and scheme, and there are probably others that we have no idea about.

So this begs the question -- why the obsession w/ solely the size of the player in criticizing the position change when logic tells us there must be some things we aren't aware of? Do you apply this mentality in other parts of your life? Do you pick your women based solely on eye color? When you buy a car do you only ask the dealer about whether or not it has leather interior and then make your decision?

[Globetrotter]

Right.....Curtis would make a better center at 270 than all of our recruited offensive line players that are 285-295lbs. Sorry , I'd have to see that before I believe that.

It's pretty common for a center to be the smallest guy on a line, isn't it?

I've always assumed it is a combination of (a) that skill set needed to successfully snap the ball and (b) good feet, to work up a double team to the left or right.

If this guy was being moved over to be a tackle or a guard, I'd be a bit more concerned. But center? A good center is hard to find, I always thought.

In the NFL the hardest position to play is tackle because you are on an island. I am not sure if the same rings true in the college game. One thing you did not mention is that the Center usually makes the line calls. An extrordinarily important aspect of the position. It may not be accurate when it comes to BG tho, but I would bet that Lich does our line calls no matter where he is now.

[Globetrotter]

Size is not as important in a 4-3 defense. A premium is placed on penetration and athleticism on the d-line in a 4-3.

The fact we were small was not the whole problem last year. The fact that we were not talented or deep was more of a factor than size. I know a dude that's 310. We could stick him on the DL and watch him piss himself as he gets his nuts pushed around by O-lineman that are 280. Size is part of it, but it isn't nearly everything.


Does Falconboy or anybody else around here actually think that that the coaching staff had this discussion?

Brandon: "I was thinking of moving Curtis to backup center"

Lovett: "He's a much better d-lineman -- in fact, I think he'll save our defense this year"

Brandon: "Yeah, but I'm itching to get fired"

Lovett: "Good point -- let's move him"

The idea that we can not question a coaches decision is absurd. Many people make livings off of doing just that. I do not mean to present the idea that I am smarter than the coaches. The coaches are clearly more knowledgable with this team. That does not mean that coaches are infallible and that the decision to move someone from a very small very thin line to a deep line can not be questioned. Of course Brandon had a reason. We have not heard that reason. It may be a great reason. That does not mean that we can not question the reason.

Yikes -- apparently you're unaware that I question the coaches as much as anyone around here. It's just silly in this case.

You didn't address my point of a 4-3 vs. a 3-4 and it's ramifications on D-line requirements. Nor did you address the fact that we had an amazing d-line in 2001 that was virtually the same size as our crappy unit from last year.

Another interesting fact - Michigan had a couple huge and talented DTs last year. One was already drafted, and the other one will be. Michigan's interior D was smelly last year. How do you explain that one if size is such an end all be all for DTs? The only logical conclusion to all these facts is that there are many many factors that go into being a quality lineman. Size is just one of them. There are some others we assume we know like technique, quickness, athleticism, and scheme, and there are probably others that we have no idea about.

So this begs the question -- why the obsession w/ solely the size of the player in criticizing the position change when logic tells us there must be some things we aren't aware of? Do you apply this mentality in other parts of your life? Do you pick your women based solely on eye color? When you buy a car do you only ask the dealer about whether or not it has leather interior and then make your decision?

Paragraph by Paragraph.....

The 4-3 vs the 3-4. They are basically the same defense in almost every case. The NG is the NT the LE in a 4-3 pairs with the other DT (not the nose) in a 3-4 to play tackle. The RE slides back with his hand up to play one of the SLB type positions. Their is a much bigger difference between two technique and I beleive one technique lineman than the 3-4 and the 4-3. I dont completely understand that difference or the terminoilogy but I beleive in a one technique (that word may be wrong) the linemen are used more to eat blockers and let the LBs run. The 2 technique is more about slants and stunts. Again I don't have a complete grasp on this, but the idea is there. The 3-4 to 4-3 is usually an organic scheme where the RE can put his hand up and down. I would imagine with Briggs athletic ability and with time, that is exactly what we would do to try to confuse offenses.

I don't mean to say that size is the end all to be all. In fact I don't think I have said that. I have said what we lack on the DLine is size. We seem to have the undersized quick guys. While B Hicks was here I beleive he played with a much larger Tackle on his shoulder.

I agree there is a ton of factors that go in to making a great DT. I think we may have players that have alot of those qualities. However we (based off of the weights listed on BGSU's offcial site.) have very few DTs with size.

I dont have the obsession with size. I just view it as the one aspect that we seem to be missing at DT. It is alwo the most obvious aspect because the others are less than measureable.

[Globetrotter]

The other arguments seemed completely obvious save to someone completely obtuse.

1. Larger objects are more difficult to move.
2. Name one DT in the NFL under 285 pounds. The NFL is a for profit product. Teams try to win, to gain fans and money. If the best Defensive Tackles go on to the NFL and no defensive tackles in the NFL weigh under 285. It would seem desirous to have larger, less easily moved defenders on the DL.
3. Snowmen sleep in the Sea.

Hmmmm....ok....let's go point by point.

1) Somewhat valid, but as our friend Konishiki proved in Sumo, size is not as important as technique. This is as true in football as it is in Sumo.

2) Completely irrelevant. The requirements to play in the NFL have nothing to do with the requirements to play in the MAC. (Brandon Hicks was an all MAC DT in this decade at 260lbs).... Apples and oranges comparison. I like oranges, don't care much for apples.

3) At last...you are making some sense here. People think snowmen melt. They don't. They get up and wander off towards the north pole to sleep away the summer in the cold northern waters. Their summertime habitat is shrinking due to global warming. Al Gore didn't mention this Inconvenient Truth because he's a wuss. Give up your car and start walking or the snowmen will DIE

1) there are outlyers. I weigh 160 and run marathons, you weigh 240 and eat bon bons. Who is harder to move?
2) The NFL is the best of the best.
3) That was a Cat Stevens lyric.

[Flipper]

1) False premise...the discussion does not center on what is harder to move. The discussion is centered on what it takes to be effective. Size is not the sole qualification to play DT. It is secondary to athletic skill and the ability to learn technique. Also, a 240lb person is exactly 50% heavier than a 160lb person. a 260lb DT is not giving away such a huge percentage of his mass to any OL in the MAC.

2) Yep...the NFL is the best of the best and that still has nothing to do with what it takes to suceed in college football.

3) Cat Stevens is a muslim and he's on the "icky terrorist" flight list that the airlines get from the government. He wrote some pretty decent songs back in the day and he had a REALLY hot girlfriend even after becoming a muslim. She was a model who paraded around showing more than her ankles to men she didn't even know. I guess that burqa stuff only goes so far.

[Globetrotter]

1) I guess you decide which arguments can be made and which ones cant. Good to know. Do you really weigh 240 and eat bon bons?

If you could have an effective DT at 280 or one at 240 which would you want?

2) Point taken, they are different games. One need to look no further than Tommie Frazier to realize this. Maybe we could look at All American lists?

3) Cat Stevens is not on the Govt no fly list. His now Muslim name is very similar to someone's name who is or was on said list. He was stopped during a flight for it(I actually think the flight was rerouted midair because of it. He was questioned and I beleive all is well now. Save his disdain for the US for rerouting a flight because his muslim name happened to be similar to someone elses.

[Flipper]

1) I'm 290 and I eat children. Yes, I do decide what argument is to be made. When you are responding to my comments I reserve the right to take the necessary steps to lead you back to the point I am trying to make.

3) You bought that bit about the name confusion? You probably think we actually went to the moon in 1969

[Globetrotter]

How do they taste?

[Flipper]

Like chicken

[Globetrotter]

An Old wooden ship

[Jacobs4Heisman]

An Old wooden ship

You mean diversity?

[hammb]

I don't mean to say that size is the end all to be all. In fact I don't think I have said that. I have said what we lack on the DLine is size. We seem to have the undersized quick guys. While B Hicks was here I beleive he played with a much larger Tackle on his shoulder.

Here is where I think you have made some incorrect observations. I do agree that we are very undersized on the DL. I've complained about it for years that we seem to constantly bring in nothing but undersized kids to play on our defense across the board. We take guys who are undersized at safety and put them at LB (Dozier), we put guys that would be undersized LBs and play them at DE (Briggs), etc. It appears to be the philosophy of the coaching staff, and I don't much care for it myself.

That being said, I'm not coach so we go with the philosophy that the coaching staff has put forth. I could look up the quotes if I weren't so lazy, but I seem to recall that our staff is trying to put together a DL that may not be the biggest, but is able to penetrate and cause disruption. Therein lies the problem. We're bringing in kids that are small for their position, but very few of them are actually able to make up for that with quickness or technique.

I'm hoping Lovett makes improvements this year, because over the past few years I really cannot figure out what we're trying to do along the front 7. One week you'll hear Brandon complain that our DL isn't penetrating and making plays. Then the next you'll hear him say that it's not all the DLs fault that the LBs are supposed to be the ones that maek the tackles. Looking at the guys they have recruited it seems to me they're going for more of a 1 gap type attack. Each DL has a gap, and he attacks it at the snap hoping to penetrate and cause disruption in the backfield. In that style of defense (similar to Lovie Smith) you would prefer smaller, more athletic DL players. However, as I mentioned above, he has made comments in the past that make it sound like they're more of a 2 gap team, which (to put it very simply) is more concerned with the DL taking up blocks so the LBs can make plays. In that style you'd like to have some bulkier DL players, and quickness is less important.

If we're trying to be a one gap team then I think the guys we are bringing in don't seem to have the necessary athleticism/technique/instincts to create the disruption we need. If we're trying to be a two gap team then I definitely think we need to bring in some larger guys to help occupy space. Either way I think we can all agree that in Brandon's tenure our DL has been pretty much putrid as a rule, and is quite likely the biggest reason we have not won any championships. Until we start getting consistent play from the front 7 that allows us to stop the running game and put the ball back into our offense's hands we will never win; it's really that simple.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

Maybe that's starting to change with our improved recruiting. Between Young, Barrow, Brandon Jackson, the 2 stud safeties, and some other recruits, we seem to have really infused some talent on the other side of the ball finally. My theory is that we got so enamored with offense in the last 5 years, that we haven't paid enough attention to the defensive side of the ball. Even Brandon was quoted before last year saying we could just outscore everybody. Maybe now he's learned that isn't the case, and that solid D and ST units are key in winning championships.


I really believe in Lovett as a DC. I think that once he does get some more talent, some players that are more suited to their positions, and a cohesive defensive scheme and philosophy, we can really become a complete team for the first time in the Brandon "era".


Want to hear another theory? I think that part of the reason why our D has been so inconsistent is that they got caught up in all the offensive hullabaloo with everyone else. You could see the lack of intensity and focus plain as day quite often over the last 3 years. I think that now that our offense may be down, the defense might be ready to step up and shoulder more of the responsibility for creating a quality team.

[Globetrotter]

Maybe that's starting to change with our improved recruiting. Between Young, Barrow, Brandon Jackson, the 2 stud safeties, and some other recruits, we seem to have really infused some talent on the other side of the ball finally. My theory is that we got so enamored with offense in the last 5 years, that we haven't paid enough attention to the defensive side of the ball. Even Brandon was quoted before last year saying we could just outscore everybody. Maybe now he's learned that isn't the case, and that solid D and ST units are key in winning championships.


I really believe in Lovett as a DC. I think that once he does get some more talent, some players that are more suited to their positions, and a cohesive defensive scheme and philosophy, we can really become a complete team for the first time in the Brandon "era".


Want to hear another theory? I think that part of the reason why our D has been so inconsistent is that they got caught up in all the offensive hullabaloo with everyone else. You could see the lack of intensity and focus plain as day quite often over the last 3 years. I think that now that our offense may be down, the defense might be ready to step up and shoulder more of the responsibility for creating a quality team.

Great point on the Hullabaloo. They may lack a sense of urgency knwoing that we would likely put up 40 pts or so.