BGALUMNI wrote:Stats are not always the best indicators.
Texas Tech has had two QBs with stellar numbers the past couple of years. Symons and Kingsbury both had outlandish numbers.
Kingsbury complete over 65% of his passes. 91 TDs with 37 Ints.
Going by your indicators Kingsbury would be a better NFL prospect.
Agreed. Statistics alone are not the best measure. However, I was told to argue from something other than personal impressions from watching the two play. Statistics can vary greatly based on surrounding personnel, system, and game situations of course. I do believe, however, that a pretty great disparity in the statistics can tell some sort of story. I think when you look at the numbers it shows pretty clearly that Frye is a better passer and Harris is a better runner. I don't know how anyone who has watched the two play could ever dispute that fact, its fairly obvious.
Acting as if Frye and Harris were in the same draft class is like comparing apples and oranges.
I don't think so. You asked why people have more faith in Frye as opposed to Harris. That requires a comparison between the two. The only thing anyone has seen of Harris since his draft day is his preseason games. In those games he had limited playing time with mostly guys that were getting cut. He completed 15 of 31 passes for 131 yards, with no TDs or INTs.
This is exactly what Phil Savage said that he did before the 2005 draft. He graded Harris out as if he were going back into the draft, and compared him to prospects in this draft. Josh is essentially a rookie all over again. He's in a new training camp with a new coaching staff. I think treating them both as rookies is about the only way you can compare the two. Harris didn't have an opportunity to show much since the 2004 draft, so I think its the only way to compare the two.
Reasons I think Harris is better.
Leadership- Harris gets the nod there for sure. Knows how to win and does have what some call heart.
Not gonna dispute that for one second. That's the biggest reason why I think Harris can make it at the next level. He's a winner, plain & simple. However, I've seen this exact same capability from Frye, and I've talked with one of Frye's former coaches (who was quite high on Harris as well), and he also agrees that Frye has that same leadership ability. You may not have seen it as often because his team around him was so awful, but Charlie has done much of the same willing his team to victory late as Harris did. Last year's Marshall game is an excellent example.
Ability to create- Harris has shown that ability
Agreed, he showed it on the college level. The NFL is a whole new ball game. I do think he's plenty mobile enough to buy himself time in the pocket, but I don't think he's got the ability to create things downfield with his legs like he could in college. Very few NFL QBs can create big plays with their legs. If Josh improves his throwing ability to the point that he can buy himself time in the pocket and then hit a throw on the money he will be successful at the NFL level.
Ability to score-Harris has the better touchdown ratio
No arguing that Harris got the ball into the endzone more. He threw a higher TD% than Frye and rushed for far more TDs than Frye. However, I think you have to be careful with the number of TDs scored to rate these two players. Harris played with perennial all MAC talent around him. Pope, Magner, & Sharon as weapons with protection from guys like Mazur & Mruczkowski, etc. As much as we like to complain (myself included) our defense was also far superior to what UA has fielded.
Josh scored a LOT of TDs, no arguing that, but his Senior year I remember many people wondering why we couldn't punch it in once were in the redzone, so often. His Junior year he did an outstanding job of putting the ball in the endzone, mostly with his legs. No point denying that Harris can put it in the endzone, but I'd be curious to see how often Charlie's teams actually got to the redzone, for comparison's sake. The fact is the disparity in TD numbers could have a lot to do with the disparity of the surrounding talent, IMO.
Throwing mechanics or polished passer? There are a few guys that have done well in the NFL without the best mechanics and even a few of those have played for the Browns.
Without a doubt. However, when grading prospects you still will prefer the polished passer. That's not to say that Josh is seriously mechanically flawed in his passing. He's okay Mechanically, with a good quick release. His biggest flaw is mechanics is his dropback. In the Senior Bowl & his preseason games last year he really seemed to struggle with the transition from shotgun offense to dropping back. He'll get it, I'm sure.
Height? Doug Flutie has proven that doesn't always matter. I am sorry, but your 1 inch difference between Frye and Harris doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Shoot Brett Favre is 6-2.
First of all the difference is 3", possibly more. Harris is listed at 6'1, but I know that's rounding up from his combine height. It is not the end of the world, but if all things are equal you grade the taller guy higher.
Senior Bowl performances? You have got to be kidding right? Two different years none the less, with completely different players surrounding them.
If you think the difference in surrounding casts made that much of a difference in their play, then I'd like to know why. This is the most similar situation they've ever been put in. Yes different players around them, but the situation is nearly identical. They're both heralded "small school" guys coming into the senior bowl. Both got about equal playing time. Both were playing with completely unfamiliar players, until the week of practice. Both were receiving tutilege from NFL coaches for the first time, and playing in an NFL system for the same time.
I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Both of these guys have potential, but neither is a top notch prospect. I do believe that when I look at the two I see a better NFL prospect in Frye than I do Harris, but it wouldn't surprise me to see either flop or succeed, or both flop or succeed. The fact is they were both mid to late round QBs and for all the people that want to bring up Brady there are about 100 QBs picked that late in the draft who fail miserably for every 1 Tom Brady. 95% of all top notch QBs are taken in the first 35 picks of the draft, so both of these guys are trying to beat the long odds against them.
