BGNews interviews BG Students-BG FB game or BlackSwamp Fest?

[Tech83]

Yeah - This thread is way too long, so let me add to it ! And is it really about football anymore?

Anyway - IMHO - The issue is not really what the BG News does or does not do. I have always found it a fun read as an Alum. If there is an important campus topic they seem to pursue it.

HEY - Does anyone remember ExamScam (1979-80)? I still have the 4 page exam week supplement the BG News put out about it. The Administration sent the Campus Cops out to collect all copies. The cops were actually following the delivery guys. I just happened to grab one before the cops grabbed the entire stack in Rodger. They DID NOT want people to know what was going on. This story eventually hit the Today Show.

But yeah, most of the time is fairly mild stuff. But I still enjoy the read.

So what is the really issue - IMHO - Commuter-minded students. Over the past 10 years, my wife and I have noticed the absolute lack of students on campus on the weekends. (Okay - maybe I come to campus on the wrong weekend). It astonishes us to come to campus to see a game (Hockey and football being our choice of poison) and see empty seats in large numbers. THe Union is empty and so is the Library.

To make matters, worst is reading an op/ed piece a few years ago in the BG News about how it is boring in BG and students should continue to go home. ARRRGH!!!!

My solution to build more student participation at all weekend funcitons - sports included. Go the Miami way - no car campus until your a junior or if you live 500 miles from campus. (Okay - loathing and hateful replies can begin here - but I spent three years of grad school in Oxford and it works - those kids LOVE their alma mater because they were forced to spend time there and be part of the college experinence - and maybe thats why they lead the nation in alumni donations)

Try to get a hockey ticket in Oxford at game time. It is damn hard. They shove 2,300 people - mostly students- in that pit they call an arena. Go to their website and look at the architectural drawings for the new Ice Arena (2 - count them 2 NHL sided sheets of ice)

Okay I gotta stop - this was too long. Sorry.

[falconfan1]

No offense, but most of this is off base. The Man on The Street in the BG News responses are a bunch of hooey. My sons have both been "featured" in times past because they knew some people and had funny answers to off beat questions. It is about fun. FUN. Sometimes the resposes seem more serious. Don't sweat it; it is a little far from a scientific survey.

Other parts of the paper are serious and are a learning experience for 19 or 20 year old writers. They are trying- and sometimes ticking me off royally with crazy editorials printed at the worst times. Good for them; be a "voice". It's OK to tick me off.

I was on campus yesterday. CampusFest is a gathering designed to get students involved in organizations etc. There must have been about a zillion tables/booths out on the lawn. People everywhere- actually signing up for stuff AND eating a free picnic lunch. I mean literally thousands of people invloved at various times. BG students, in general, care. BG students would like to be involved in one thing or another. BG students, in general, love their sports and we need to get them to come to the games once they figure things out (as freshmen for instance).

So in summary: reality yesterday was an involved, energized campus. I hosted a HS senior and her family evaluating BG in the afternoon. Talk about impressed. She eliminated three schools yesterday and is down to two. Just a tremendous atmosphere.

Nice meeting Omar Jacobs yesterday also. Omar, I appreciate you speaking with my guest. Her family was very impressed with you taking the time to speak with her.

Hey, it's college. Just like when I was there. Some things bad; most things good. Anybody that can't "feel" BG moving up as a university has not spent time there recently. I know all of can't spend time there so take my word for it (smile!).

Everybody go to the game and bring somebody. Go Falcons!

[NWLB]

P.S. For those who say The BGNews and organizations like USG are useless, I always wondered two things: 1.) How do you really know? and 2.) What have you done to assist in the effectiveness of said groups?[/quote]

Ah, you seem to think anybody should try to assist them. I don't think they have any birthright at BGSU that entitles them to be assisted. To strong an attempt by the administration to prop-up an exercise in kids playing politician is a greater waste of time and resources than the group as it currently stands. The only group that I think should be dealt with is the student paper. If a group of students want to run off and have an “independent voice” let them do it on their on time, with their own building, money, and resources. Otherwise, the BG News is a half-truth that serves to waste more time, paper, money, and resources than it is worth.

I know this because I’ve been here more than long enough, read enough, and spoken to far more than enough students, faculty, staff, and administrators that have about as low a view of both groups as I and others do. Their positions and understandable desire to avoid beating up on a bunch of college kids living through the predictable and normal fits of “empowerment” keeps them quite.

USG I don’t think is anything to deal with. Its just a student group with a budget and no real influence over the campus. It does a good enough job of ensuring its own irrelevance. The BG News however is a public embarrassment when it is at its worst.

[Tech83]

I was on campus yesterday. CampusFest is a gathering designed to get students involved in organizations etc. There must have been about a zillion tables/booths out on the lawn. People everywhere-

This is the stuff I like to hear. Thanks for the update Falconfan1.

Attending the sporting events is not everything. My wife and I use to start our Christmas season at the annual X-mas concert put on by the Music Depart. We had friends in the Depart. Good Stuff - Good Memories.

Nice meeting Omar Jacobs yesterday also. Omar, I appreciate you speaking with my guest. Her family was very impressed with you taking the time to speak with her

You can't say enough good things about the BG profs and Admin in my book. I know Dean Savage at the College of Tech has treated folks I sent his way with great hospitality. Now they are dying to attend BG.

[TG1996]

Nice meeting Omar Jacobs yesterday also. Omar, I appreciate you speaking with my guest. Her family was very impressed with you taking the time to speak with her

You can't say enough good things about the BG profs and Admin in my book. I know Dean Savage at the College of Tech has treated folks I sent his way with great hospitality. Now they are dying to attend BG.

ya can't say enough good things about the members of the football team, either. its VERY refreshing to hear that Omar is already showing signs of the off-field qualities we (or at least you guys) appreciated about Josh. And that ALL members (save a few bad apples and/or "dumb college kid mistakes") of the team are following that same example set forth by the coaching staff.

[Schadenfreude]

HEY - Does anyone remember ExamScam (1979-80)?

I remember ExamScam in the same way teens today remember Led Zeppelin. That is to say, around 1990, we BG Newsers were still speaking about it hushed tones but we had no first hand knowledge.

For the young 'uns: A lot of professors, when they finally settled on a final exam they liked, wouldn't change it. Year after year, they would give the same exam.

In response, fraternties started keeping files on the exams. For instance, if you had the IPCO intro (and this is completely hypothetical), a freshman Xi Omicron (again, hypothetical) could check the file, review the test, and head into the exam confident they would know all the answers ahead of time.

I *think* fraternities and sororities were even running an exchange program -- sharing tests so they had access to as much as possible.

During exam week, the network was busted, so The BG News put out a special edition.

I'd love to know if '87 recalls a bit more, because...

I still have the 4 page exam week supplement the BG News put out about it. The Administration sent the Campus Cops out to collect all copies. The cops were actually following the delivery guys. I just happened to grab one before the cops grabbed the entire stack in Rodger. They DID NOT want people to know what was going on. This story eventually hit the Today Show.

I don't recall this part about campus police collecting copies of the paper -- and that little detail seems like it *should* have stood out to me. That's awful.

Of course, I boozed it up a lot at college. Memories fade.

One of my favorite stories revolves around the 1989 USG election. A nontraditional left-leaning student I probably shouldn't name ran for USG president, and I think his major opponent was a young man who modeled himself after Ronald Reagan, a guy who holds political office today, in fact.

Back then, elections took place over the course of two days.

Anyway, on the *day* of the election, The BG News received word (presumably, from the Reaganesque camp) that this left-leaning student had been convicted of armed robbery back in the 1970s, back when he was a radical with the Weathermen.

(A lot of us young 'uns had to have it explained to us exactly who were the Weathermen. These were the 80s, we were kids, and the whole idea of the Weathermen was inconceiveable to many of us).

Anyay, despite misgivings (the paper was obviously being played like a fiddle), the BG News had no choice but to splash that news across the front page -- and, of course, the Reaganesque candidate won.

So what is the really issue - IMHO - Commuter-minded students. Over the past 10 years, my wife and I have noticed the absolute lack of students on campus on the weekends. (Okay - maybe I come to campus on the wrong weekend). It astonishes us to come to campus to see a game (Hockey and football being our choice of poison) and see empty seats in large numbers. THe Union is empty and so is the Library.

I think you hit upon a good point. A newspaper can only be as vibrant as the community it serves. If, in the main, students are tuned out of campus life, just going to class and going back to study, going home on weekends and not much concerned with the social environment around them, then they aren't going to be as interested in the copy The BG News serves up five days a week because they just aren't connected to the community.

I've always found it hard to believe that so many students really are going home on the weekend. It wasn't like that when I was there. It helped that I didn't have a car. I was forced to plug into the community.

My solution to build more student participation at all weekend funcitons - sports included. Go the Miami way - no car campus until your a junior or if you live 500 miles from campus.

If the problem is as you describe, this isn't a bad idea.

[falconfan1]

NWLB, I like your well thought out opinions and style. I stay just a little more positive, but i understand what you are saying.

USG? I know a little about that- "yesterday" and literally today. If you think these USG students are not making a difference on campus for undergrads and near term future undergrads then I would have to respectfully disagree- big time.

It is not a play governement or just experience. The USG leadership takes a very, very active role on campus- sometimes "loudly", usually quietly. These people are involved in serious (not pretend) discussions at very high levels at the university- as they are supposed to be. Now can this leadership do a better job? Can they get more done? You bet. But this crew is big time committed- and making a difference each day.

Trust me. Things are GOOD at BG. Bot perfect, just good. And getting better.

Go Falcons!

[Schadenfreude]

Ah, you seem to think anybody should try to assist them. I don't think they have any birthright at BGSU that entitles them to be assisted. To strong an attempt by the administration to prop-up an exercise in kids playing politician is a greater waste of time and resources than the group as it currently stands.

...

The only group that I think should be dealt with is the student paper. If a group of students want to run off and have an “independent voice” let them do it on their on time, with their own building, money, and resources. Otherwise, the BG News is a half-truth that serves to waste more time, paper, money, and resources than it is worth.

The general fee is projected to generate about $20.7 million in 2004-05.

Here are some of the ways that revenue will be allocated:

-- Athletic operations: $8,467,795 (40.8 percent)
-- Director of student publications: $75,288 (0.4 percent)
-- USG $25,388 (0.1 percent)
-- BG24 News: $21,388 (0.1 percent)
-- WBGU-FM: $21,350 (0.1 percent)
-- BG Radio Sports: $5,200 (? percent*)
-- WFAL: $9,395 (? percent*)

Moreover, the general fee subsidy of athletic operations is two-thirds of the athletic department's $12.7 million 2004-05 budget.

And that figure does not include capital expenses, which break this way:

-- $168,113 Ice Arena
-- $951,842 Field House
-- $13,500 golf course.
-- $220,085 football stadium

Total: $1,353,540.

In other words, the real subsidy of athletics at BGSU, $9,821,335, is close to half of the general fee.

The BG News general fee subsidy is, at most, 0.4 percent -- and in reality less than that. The director of student publications advises other publications, including the Key. He also oversees Unigraphics, the publishing shop in West Hall that handles many university publications.

Source: http://www.bgsu.edu/offices/finance/bud ... gf2005.pdf

So who is really being "propped up" NWLB?

I don't know whether The BG News is charged for rent and utilities, but that's the only other subsidy I can imagine. The newspaper owns its equipment. Printing costs and employees are paid out of revenue generated by advertising. Advertising sales persons are paid wages as were (in my day), the composing room crew (in the age of digital layout, I'm not sure how that works anymore). Some of the higher level staffers received a stipend that was far below the minimum wage. None of that is propped up by the University.

I know this because I’ve been here more than long enough, read enough, and spoken to far more than enough students, faculty, staff, and administrators that have about as low a view of both groups as I and others do. Their positions and understandable desire to avoid beating up on a bunch of college kids living through the predictable and normal fits of “empowerment” keeps them quite.

In other words, you and your friends like to bitch about the paper.

There are people like you in every community in America.

The Blade won a Pulitzer last year, and people still complain about it just like they always have.

--
* The percentages here are so small, my calculator is going to scientific notation, which I struggle with.

[Schadenfreude]

It is not a play governement or just experience. The USG leadership takes a very, very active role on campus- sometimes "loudly", usually quietly.

One example: the University used USG as a sounding board before proceeding with the Field House. I believe USG passed a resolution in support of the construction, and the USG president at the time became very active in talking up the project.

[NWLB]

Tis been far too long since this debate cropped up.....

I think even a trash paper like the Blade can put together a set-piece article designed explicitly to win an award, they’ve been trying for years. They finally won something. It doesn’t change the fact that the Blade is a lousy paper trying to use an award to vindicate the rest of the crude the foist off on us. And if there are people like me in every town that dislike print media like the Blade, or the BG News, it speaks to the decline of print media in general. They leave much to dislike.

I’ve tried to stay generally positive, and in truth my feelings are much more so than the position I debate from. There is an intended purpose to the angle I’m coming from. I’m not going to allow myself to get sucked up into the mindless vortex of “everythings fine, isn’t that great, what a great job they are doing” that frequently surrounds certain things.

I disagree that the USG is a serious voice for students in almost any matter. They have paper control over some budget issues sure. And I seriously doubt they would be allowed to retain it were they to ever to attempt any significant change in how the money is spent. Its like a child being given chores to perform. Do they well and you get a pat on the back.

I feel very sure that certain administrators have wanted USG to become the true and viable student voice it isn’t, because they felt it would make spending on their priorities easier. To my personal amusement I watched USG screw it up with a series of silly, immature controversies that were ridiculed by the student base at large.

Pointing to the general fee, talking about “dedication” and hard work sound really nice, but amount to nothing substantively. I’m sure the kids doing it feel really good about what they do. I have nothing against the fact they exist as such and hope the gain something from the experience.

It is the inability to recognize their own reality and limitations that is annoying. It is how the stomp their little feet and bitch about how they should be listened too when nobody agrees with the contention that they are some kind of authority on campus, and fewer people vote or care with each passing year.

In the end, its an exercise in parliamentary procedure broadcast on local cable TV. I watch their little gatherings and am typically left shaking my head, as they sit in Olsecamp hall, with their serious looks, talking about meetings with the mayor, Dr. Whipple, and how “its for the good of” this or that. Yet knowing what comes of those meetings, when and if they happen, its ludicrous to believe anything of meaning really goes on.

IF USG needs anything its an alumni component. Local people that can lend the long-term, non-academic perspective those kids totally lack. It might stand a chance of learning from its constant mistakes, which are repeated in various forms annually. It might learn a realistic perspective, and craft views, causes, and such, which might hold the attention of those they work with and are claiming to represent.

They are propped up. The only reason they have even paper control over the money is to provide political cover for the administration. It is political money laundering if you will. The students hands touch the money and bless its use, so however its employed must be “the will of the students.” However you can not successfully argue they really have control over anything meaningful.

As for the paper, if they want to be an independent student voice, let they truly operate as such. Off campus, no financial underwriting of any kind, and no faculty support. That paper wouldn’t survive a semester. Because nobody would want to hear what they have to say.

Endow the USG and fund it from a third party trust. Donate some off-campus facility. Take away the control over university funds. Then let the same group present themselves as a true student-elected representative body. They would be able to claim true credibility if students wanted to give them a true mandate. IE, vote for them. However you won’t get more than 1200 students to bother voting. Nobody would. Not because they lack a campus location or some direct technical link to BGSU. Rather people would not care because USG is simply NOT considered by students as having any supportable claim to be a voice OF the students. The only reason they exist as USG and not a debate society, is because of the administration ensuring they don’t fall of the face of the earth. Under that kind of relationship, if you think they are truly viable as an independent student group, you are wrong.

[NWLB]

In a totally unrelated side-point. Not that any of this debate is sports related. However, have you noticed that UT has absolutely no counterparts to the topics or forums here? It illustrates how different the two universities are. With BGSU, we have alumni and students making fairly well presented arguments about campus life, improving it, etc. We discuss and debate meaningful community issues. If we don’t agree, we at least care. At UT their students don’t care, their alumni are unaware, and the only thing they can cling too is their precious overrated football team. No wonder they are so thin-skinned whenever somebody from BG starts talking about anything non-athletic.

[Schadenfreude]

As for the paper, if they want to be an independent student voice, let they truly operate as such. Off campus, no financial underwriting of any kind, and no faculty support. That paper wouldn’t survive a semester. Because nobody would want to hear what they have to say.

First of all, I'll say it for the third time:

The BG News receives no faculty support.

The BG News advisor is the director of student publications. The director of student publications is an administrator. He is not a member of the faculty. He teaches no courses and he will never get tenure.

The BG News *is* independent. It is structurally autonomous from the university. Editors are selected by a committee that includes journalism professors, working journalists, students and certain other appointees from the BGSU and surrounding community. Once an editor is picked, the only restriction on him is the size of his or her newsroom budget, which is set by the director of student publications. If Sidney Ribeau calls to complain about a story, the editor is perfectly within his rights to tell him to !@$%$ off (although I can't imagine that actually happening).

Other universities, such as Kent State, follow a similar model.

If complete financial independence is ideologically imperative for you, then it could be done.

The only support the newspaper receives now is advice and administrative direction from the director of student publications and (possibly) rent and utilities.

The director of student publications could be sacked easily enough. And I'm sure The BG News budget could be pared down to the point where it could pay rent and utilities if it now now doing so.

One strategy would be to increase the ratio of advertising to news in the pages. Many newspaper corporations have done this quite profitably.

The small stipends for staff members could be reduced or eliminated.

Another potential strategy could be to scale back to two- or three-issues per week, as is now done at the Cincinnati, Miami, Toledo, Eastern Michigan, etc.

The newspaper would survive.

On the other hand, it wouldn't be nearly as good. It would suffer a tremendous loss of institutional memory and neither the writing nor the design would be as good.

Not only would writers would be working on even more of a volunteer basis -- and, thus, able to devote less time to the paper -- they would no longer have the direction of an advisor.

Where does that get anyone?

I thought your kvetch was your perception that The BG News sucks.

What do you want, NWLB?

I think you just like to complain.

Go out and get laid tonight. It might help.

[TG1996]

First of all, I'll say it for the third time:

The BG News receives no faculty support.

But there is a prof that has an office upstairs from the BG News, right? Cause I think that counts.

Seriously people, its a free newspaper that gets put out EVERYDAY. Of course there are some things that could be done better, but find me a student organization that is flawless. While theoretically they should support EVERY event that goes on at the University, especially ones as high profile as the football team, everyone has their own opinion on what's important.

Hopefully as I type this, there's about 10,000 students filing into (or actually already INSIDE) the Doyt, and all this will be silly.

(For the record, I think I read about a third of the posts here, and most likely skipped page two.)

[falconfan1]

Finally home from the game. Good job, boys.

OK, NWLB, I'm not posting again on this deal wih USG and this will be short. I sat with the USG President, the USG Vice President, the student rep to the Board of Trustees and the Latino Student Union President at the game tonight- for a large portion of it.

These are some of the university's current undergraduate leaders. I have no idea what used to happen with USG in most earlier years. I remember some of the activity back when I was in school. I am not now going to list what the above people are working on etc. for the undergrads today and for tomorrow. I just don't feel it is necessary.

Why? Because the above young leaders (maybe 19 to 21 years old) are clearly, to this ancient alum, super star kids trying their butts off with good ideas who have made some happen who are both listened to and consulted by senior BG administrators.

Too tired. All done with this subject. Student government is not a meaningless bunch of silly ideas with little kids playing games. You can keep saying it. But you are wrong. No offense. Go talk to the students.

I'm done on this and ready for NIU.

Go Falcons!