NFL Falcons?

[hammb]

I've seen him slotted anywhere from 6 to no lower than 15. That's whyI thought his stock was high to where he should come out because he's almost certainly the 2nd QB off the board after Leinart, and that's even if Vince Young comes out too.

I think Omar's stock is actually starting to fall a little bit as this season wears on. He has not put up the huge video game numbers against opponents like UB & Ohio, that he was expected to do. He also faltered in the national television game @ Boise. On top of that he showed some weaknesses in the Wisconsin game, despite putting hup big numbers and playing well in that contest.

I disagree about VY, however. If Young comes out I think he has surpassed Omar in draft status. He's got all the size and is much more athletic than Omar in terms of running ability. He's not as polished of a passer, but he has made strides in that regard this year. Combine his improvement from last year to this year and his freakish athleticism I think NFL teams take him higher than many would think.

I think another Junior has surpassed Omar in the draft stock area too, although I find it very unlikely that he'll come out this year; that is Brady Quinn. Quinn has not done it for nearly as many games as Omar, or even Vince Young, but teams are going to fall in love with him. Again he's got all the size & arm strength you'd want in a QB. He's putting up good numbers against the toughest competition. What's more, he, along with Leinart, are running NFL offenses. If you watch ND right now they are running the EXACT same offense that won 3 of the last 4 superbowls. That will weigh heavily on the minds of NFL personnel gurus, especially in comparison to the spread offense we run.

I think that as this season has progressed Omar has been passed by both of these fellow Juniors, and if either of them declare they will go ahead of Omar on draft day. I honestly now believe (whereas I didn't before the season) it is in the best interest of Omar to return to school next year. Before this season began Brady Quinn was an unknown and Vince Young was an athletic guy who wasn't a reliable passer, but as the season has gone on both of these guys have probably passed Omar on most draft boards. Seeing this, and a slight regression in Omar's numbers, I think it is definitely in his best financial interest to return to BG next season.

[1987alum]

hammb:

I always enjoy reading your analysis of potential pro players. As a casual draft observer, your assessments seem spot on. Omar could still impress the NFL scouts, but he has certainly lost some ground for the reasons you mention.

[Rollo83]

When I read the Brady Quinn comments, I thought that maybe he was too small to be considered a bigtime pro prospect. But, I checked the ND roster and it lists him at 6'4" and 232 pounds. He doesn't look 6'4" to me. He has been impressive however. He's from Columbus, and I bet the Buckeyes never gave him a look out of high school.

[Warthog]

I disagree about VY, however. If Young comes out I think he has surpassed Omar in draft status. He's got all the size and is much more athletic than Omar in terms of running ability. He's not as polished of a passer, but he has made strides in that regard this year. Combine his improvement from last year to this year and his freakish athleticism I think NFL teams take him higher than many would think.

I'm not sold on VY as an NFL player. Yes, he is very talented. He reminds me a lot of Ron Mexico. Not that that's a bad thing, but I mean he isn't much of a passer and you would have to build your offense around VY's ability to run the ball. No NFL teams have an offense that suits VY's skills. Atlanta is using a West Coast offense. But much of their success is when Vick disdains the pass and just takes off running. Granted, it works alot, but he exposes himself to injury that way. Not many NFL teams want to invest big dollars on a QB that they have to develop an offense for and have to worry about him getting injured and thus providing no return on the investment.

That doesn't mean VY won't get drafted early, just wonder how succesful he can be in the NFL style offense. He seems more suited for the CFL. Just my opinion.

[Tricky_Falcon]

He's from Columbus, and I bet the Buckeyes never gave him a look out of high school.

No that's not true the Buckeyes and Michigan wanted him very badily. He was definitely in their sights. He was ranked 20th best player in the nation by ESPN. Here are his senior stats...143-258 for 2,149 yards, 25 TDs and only 4 INTs...rushed for 6 TDs. He was a Dublin Coffman Shamrock...probably wanted to continue the whole Irish theme.


But the loss of Quinn probably wasn't looked at to be that big considering they got Zwick and Zwick was supposed to be all-world coming out of high school

[hammb]

I'm not sold on VY as an NFL player. Yes, he is very talented. He reminds me a lot of Ron Mexico. Not that that's a bad thing, but I mean he isn't much of a passer and you would have to build your offense around VY's ability to run the ball. No NFL teams have an offense that suits VY's skills. Atlanta is using a West Coast offense. But much of their success is when Vick disdains the pass and just takes off running. Granted, it works alot, but he exposes himself to injury that way. Not many NFL teams want to invest big dollars on a QB that they have to develop an offense for and have to worry about him getting injured and thus providing no return on the investment.

That doesn't mean VY won't get drafted early, just wonder how succesful he can be in the NFL style offense. He seems more suited for the CFL. Just my opinion.

I'm merely stating what I believe NFL teams will do. I cannot say that I'm really sold on Vince Young either, but he is a little different than Vick (who I'm a HUGE fan of, because he wins). I think the biggest thing to key on when comparing the two is size. Vick is the smallest NFL Starting QB right now. He is not tall enough to consistently stand in the pocket and pass from there, that has really hampered his development as a passer. Because of that you really have design rollouts, etc, if he's going to be a successful passer. His size also has something to do with getting hurt all the time. The guys hitting him have a huge size advantage over him, and his running style gets him hit more often. Vince Young, OTOH, is above average for NFL standards at 6'5 230. He's faster & more shifty than McNabb (not quite Vick speed), and he's got the size of your prototype pocket passer. I'm not 100% sold on him as a player, but I am sold on his status as a prospect, if you can understand the difference.

I always enjoy reading your analysis of potential pro players. As a casual draft observer, your assessments seem spot on. Omar could still impress the NFL scouts, but he has certainly lost some ground for the reasons you mention.

Thanks '87. I'm not an expert, by any stretch (see comments pre-draft regarding Big Ben). I am, however, a huge fan of both NFL & College football. Being a fan of both has actually made following the draft as enjoyable for me as any football game LOL. I try to remain objective, as well, and right now if I were an NFL scout I'd say that Omar's stock is falling this season, due in large part to the play of others in larger conferences. At the end of the day Omar has to put up stats to dwarf that of guys like Young & Quinn or the NFL team will look toward the guy who played a higher level of competition.

He's from Columbus, and I bet the Buckeyes never gave him a look out of high school.

As someone else stated, that's not true. Quinn's stock really shot through the roof when he camped at OSU & performed VERY well. Quinn was the first choice at QB for OSU & UM both. They wanted him very badly. I remember reading at the time that Quinn was always a ND fan (how that happens growing up in c-bus I have no idea), and that is where he always wanted to go. In the end the Buckeyes (and Wolverines & others) were VERY high on Brady and wanted him very badly, but they likely didn't have much of a chance against the Irish in that recruiting battle.

[Dayons_Den]

I am, however, a huge fan of both NFL & College football. Being a fan of both has actually made following the draft as enjoyable for me as any football game LOL.

This is sad because despite the LOL it is probably true. Never thought anyone could win the Dorkiest Quote of The Day Award away from UK_Peregrine, but congratulations Hammb.





Would a draft really be as enjoyable as any football game? Say the Browns playing in February???

--as a disclaimer since a lot of people seem overly sensitive lately this isn't meant to be a flame, just a good natured in jest comment. . .

[Warthog]

I'm not 100% sold on him as a player, but I am sold on his status as a prospect, if you can understand the difference.

I understand what your thinking, because I am in the same place. Just like the NBA, players get drafted high because of "potential", not because of what they have already accomlished.

[Warthog]

Would I be crazy to suggest that the Falcons might be better off using Schaub at QB and lining Vick up all over the field, WR, RB, wing. Wouldn't defenses be in even more trouble trying to scheme against the Falcons if they didn't know Vick was gonna be lined up at QB, and handing it off about half the time and not even being a factor in the play? Put Vick at RB and wouldn't you be reminded of Barry Sanders? Put him at WR and don't you think of like Michael Irvin or Lynn Swann? Wouldn't this drive defenses crazy? Just a thought.

[hammb]

This is sad because despite the LOL it is probably true. Never thought anyone could win the Dorkiest Quote of The Day Award away from UK_Peregrine, but congratulations Hammb.

Would a draft really be as enjoyable as any football game? Say the Browns playing in February???

--as a disclaimer since a lot of people seem overly sensitive lately this isn't meant to be a flame, just a good natured in jest comment. . .

Yay! I won!!!! LOL

It is, actually, pretty true. Perhaps it's because the Browns are never playing in January, let alone February, that I'm always looking forward to next year. I don't know why, but I love the NFL draft...I watch it for 2 days straight every year. I love college football, but when I'm watching it, I'm always trying to project how I see players at the next level.

If the Browns are ever playing in February I may change my tune, but who knows.

Would I be crazy to suggest that the Falcons might be better off using Schaub at QB and lining Vick up all over the field, WR, RB, wing. Wouldn't defenses be in even more trouble trying to scheme against the Falcons if they didn't know Vick was gonna be lined up at QB, and handing it off about half the time and not even being a factor in the play? Put Vick at RB and wouldn't you be reminded of Barry Sanders? Put him at WR and don't you think of like Michael Irvin or Lynn Swann? Wouldn't this drive defenses crazy? Just a thought.

Vick's freakish athletic ability would make him a star at QB, RB, WR, and CB IMO. I do see what you're getting at, and you could be right, but I think it is even more difficult to gameplan for a guy that can do everything when he's lining up at QB every play than it is if he's moving around. I think the best example is to look at what Ginn's done this year at OSU. He's a similar talent to Vick (minus the cannon arm), where he's the fastest guy on every football field, ultra shifty, and a freakish athlete. But college teams have had very little trouble denying him the ball by focusing on him quite a bit this year. It's pretty conceivable that NFL teams would run similar schemes to prevent Vick from ever getting the ball if he was splitting out wide. I also think his small stature makes him a less effective runner from the traditional tailback spot than it does from the QB spot. He would be good, but he's at his best in open space, and RBs don't get that opportunity nearly as often as QB's do on bootlegs, etc.

I always hear that Vick is overrated because he's not a superb passer, and he's not, but I really don't think he's overrated. If you talk to any DC I can guarantee you that the one thing they fear when facing Atlanta is Vick. You never know what he's going to do. Every single play every defender is thinking, in the back of their mind, about Vick. I'm not sure if you keep that same advantage over the defense if you're not giving him the ball on every play. Watching Atlanta play when Vick is there it opens things up for the TE (who is a pro-bowler), and for the RBs (leading to the #1 rushing offense in the NFL), because all those LBs & DL guys are CONSTANTLY thinking about Vick.

Looking at the stats the Falcons are one of the best teams in the league with Vick at QB, and they're pretty bad whenever he's been hurt. Sure if he were on the field somewhere else with another QB I think they'd be somewhere in the middle, but I'm not sure they'd be better than leaving Vick at the QB spot. Having a player that every defense is afraid of, I think you're best off letting him stay at QB where they have to worry about him having the ball in his hands every single play.

[UK Peregrine]

I am, however, a huge fan of both NFL & College football. Being a fan of both has actually made following the draft as enjoyable for me as any football game LOL.

This is sad because despite the LOL it is probably true. Never thought anyone could win the Dorkiest Quote of The Day Award away from UK_Peregrine, but congratulations Hammb.





Would a draft really be as enjoyable as any football game? Say the Browns playing in February???

--as a disclaimer since a lot of people seem overly sensitive lately this isn't meant to be a flame, just a good natured in jest comment. . .

Despite your disclaimer DD, I'm still upset Hammb has been awarded the prestigious "Dayon's Dorkiest Quote of the Day Award." That just chaps my ass. As for NFL draft day, my brother and I had a draft party every year. Die hard friends would come over and start drinking around noonish while watching the draft. The "other" crowd would filter in throughtout the day and then we would cap off day one of the draft by bar hoping in BG, usually starting at Campus Quarters and then moving downtown. On day two, everyone would stumble to their feet or at least crawl to the TV and watch the bombardment of Day 2 picks. It always proved to be an enjoyable two days.

One of the most memorable participant in the Draft Day Bonanza was one of my brother's friends, a Browns fan, would wear something like five T-shirts on draft day under a collared shirt. The T-shirts would have each of the top picks expected to be picked by the Browns. For example, he wore Couch, McNabb, Akili Smith, James and I believe Ricky Williams t-shirts in 1999 all under his shirt. Upon hearing the selection, he would tear off all of the shirts to reveal his homemade shirt with Couch's name and the Number one on it. He still does this little T-shirt performance to this day, and each year its remains funny. Oh well, enough for that digression.

[PGY Tiercel]

Despite your disclaimer DD, I'm still upset Hammb has been awarded the prestigious "Dayon's Dorkiest Quote of the Day Award." That just chaps my ass. As for NFL draft day, my brother and I had a draft party every year. Die hard friends would come over and start drinking around noonish while watching the draft. The "other" crowd would filter in throughtout the day and then we would cap off day one of the draft by bar hoping in BG, usually starting at Campus Quarters and then moving downtown. On day two, everyone would stumble to their feet or at least crawl to the TV and watch the bombardment of Day 2 picks. It always proved to be an enjoyable two days.

One of the most memorable participant in the Draft Day Bonanza was one of my brother's friends, a Browns fan, would wear something like five T-shirts on draft day under a collared shirt. The T-shirts would have each of the top picks expected to be picked by the Browns. For example, he wore Couch, McNabb, Akili Smith, James and I believe Ricky Williams t-shirts in 1999 all under his shirt. Upon hearing the selection, he would tear off all of the shirts to reveal his homemade shirt with Couch's name and the Number one on it. He still does this little T-shirt performance to this day, and each year its remains funny. Oh well, enough for that digression.

Reading about this draft party sausage fest of yours, I doubt DD's failure to award you the "dork of the day" award is the only thing that "chaps your ass":lol: *




*Disclaimer: I have never been to nor do I now ever plan to attend one of UKs draft day parties.

[Jacobs4Heisman]

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said...except this thought.


Vince Young = Matt Jones

[UK Peregrine]

Reading about this draft party sausage fest of yours, I doubt DD's failure to award you the "dork of the day" award is the only thing that "chaps your ass":lol: *




*Disclaimer: I have never been to nor do I now ever plan to attend one of UKs draft day parties.

Hey now, I never said it was only guys at the party. Now to be perfectly honest, the party started with almost all guys watching the NFL draft. But the hoochies used to come in after the second round and then the Minnesota Vikings "Loveboat" portion of the party ensued.

[Im_Full]

I've seen him slotted anywhere from 6 to no lower than 15. That's whyI thought his stock was high to where he should come out because he's almost certainly the 2nd QB off the board after Leinart, and that's even if Vince Young comes out too.

I think Omar's stock is actually starting to fall a little bit as this season wears on. He has not put up the huge video game numbers against opponents like UB & Ohio, that he was expected to do. He also faltered in the national television game @ Boise. On top of that he showed some weaknesses in the Wisconsin game, despite putting hup big numbers and playing well in that contest.

I disagree about VY, however. If Young comes out I think he has surpassed Omar in draft status. He's got all the size and is much more athletic than Omar in terms of running ability. He's not as polished of a passer, but he has made strides in that regard this year. Combine his improvement from last year to this year and his freakish athleticism I think NFL teams take him higher than many would think.

I think another Junior has surpassed Omar in the draft stock area too, although I find it very unlikely that he'll come out this year; that is Brady Quinn. Quinn has not done it for nearly as many games as Omar, or even Vince Young, but teams are going to fall in love with him. Again he's got all the size & arm strength you'd want in a QB. He's putting up good numbers against the toughest competition. What's more, he, along with Leinart, are running NFL offenses. If you watch ND right now they are running the EXACT same offense that won 3 of the last 4 superbowls. That will weigh heavily on the minds of NFL personnel gurus, especially in comparison to the spread offense we run.

I think that as this season has progressed Omar has been passed by both of these fellow Juniors, and if either of them declare they will go ahead of Omar on draft day. I honestly now believe (whereas I didn't before the season) it is in the best interest of Omar to return to school next year. Before this season began Brady Quinn was an unknown and Vince Young was an athletic guy who wasn't a reliable passer, but as the season has gone on both of these guys have probably passed Omar on most draft boards. Seeing this, and a slight regression in Omar's numbers, I think it is definitely in his best financial interest to return to BG next season.

If there is a draft site that thinks more of Young or Quinn than Omar, I've yet to see it. Young is a HUGE project, far more than Omar. With Quinn I think the consensus is that he'll stay for his senior year anyway. He's playing for a great coach that will max his draft stock, and is only finally reaching his potential now after 2 sour years. I don't think he'll bolt to be second fiddle this year when he could be #1 overall in 2007. That's why most everyone has Omar #2, and gone within the first 15 picks. Usually to the Jets for some reason. And for Omar staying himself, I have to wonder if he'll want to do that losing his 2 top guns this year. What if he came back and had a down year as a senior because of the quality of his receivers? Or worse yet, that word.....what if he comes back and gets injured?