Interim AD Named

[pdt1081]

professorjackson makes an excellent point...for a "union man" We don't why Louis Orr is still here. John Wagner suggested it might be $$$ and the optics involved in spending the money during negotiations, but we don't know that. The fact of the matter is...keeping Orr is in line with what we have done in the past (most recently with Dakich). Buying out Brandon was an aberration...

Christopher was handed a cheque for the amount needed to buy out Paluch and said "no thanks." Keeping Orr is consistent with his history. He's a FUNDRAISER, actually a pretty good one at that, but is a horrible ATHLETIC DIRECTOR.

[BGFalconfromCincy]

professorjackson makes an excellent point...for a "union man" We don't why Louis Orr is still here. John Wagner suggested it might be $$$ and the optics involved in spending the money during negotiations, but we don't know that. The fact of the matter is...keeping Orr is in line with what we have done in the past (most recently with Dakich). Buying out Brandon was an aberration...

Christopher was handed a cheque for the amount needed to buy out Paluch and said "no thanks." Keeping Orr is consistent with his history. He's a FUNDRAISER, actually a pretty good one at that, but is a horrible ATHLETIC DIRECTOR.

Going from the MAC to the Big East, doesn't sound like something that happens to a "horrible" athletic director

[mscarn]

It would be professional malpractice to keep a coach who has had one winning record (19-14 four years ago) in six years. If it's not the money they're still on the hook for then what other reason would it be? It was his hire, but Xavier apparently didn't care and it would look worse for future employers to not rectify a mistake than to stubbornly stick with one. There is also loads of precedent in college basketball, and even the Mid-American Conference this very year, to eat the last year of a contract when it's obvious a change is needed or desired.

As for the FA influencing Mazey to keep Orr for financial reasons, directly expressing this desire would be a crass and impolitc manuever, which while consistent with their tactics in the past wasn't even necessary in this instance. Here's what they said in January when their piece of the pie was being challenged:

http://www.sent-trib.com/front-page/bgs ... anned-cuts

So, in their view, "in-the-red athletics" and "failed football bowl games" should be cut. (How do you cut a bowl game anyway? Not show up? And how do you know it's going to fail before you play in it?)

In a way we should be honored to be included on their list with every other aspect of the university that enhances student life (residence halls, rec center) but not a tenured professor's bank account.

It doesn't need to be a motion at a meeting. Their previous words spoke loudly and clearly (if also selfishly and manically).

[MarkL]

Is it football season yet??

[mscarn]

Is it football season yet??

Read the above post.

A major group at the university is exerting pressure at the highest levels to eliminate the football program and not have any seasons.

Clawson's contract extention and general sanity should render such at outcome absurb and implausible, but in this budget climate I'm not ready to assume the battle is over.

Their meddling is not quite an existential threat to this athletic program, but if it's not exposed and rightly ridiculed it may grow to be.

[professorjackson]

I've searched my notes and the BGSU-FA's communications and I can't locate where we said football should be eliminated. We haven't even said that it should be expected to pay for itself, although I individually support that idea. You seem to really dislike professors, but face it: students learning from and with professors inside and outside the classroom is the central purpose of the university.

[It's the Journey...]

JUST SHUT THE HELL UP!!!! You seem to hate everything at BGSU that does not revolve around athletics.

You seem to be for a competitive wage for our coaches but against competitive wages for faculty. You seem to be for a group of donors trying to exert pressure to buy out a coach or coaches, but you are against a group of faculty exerting pressure to keep educating students a top priority.

I am not sure why you see this search committee as such a hindrance to the process but it is what we have. I am sure there is a professional firm vetting candidates right now. Once they have a qualified pool then the committee will take over. when they feel the correct person for BGSU has been located it will go up to Mazey. It seems pretty logical. We will have a final candidate that is qualified professionally AND is a fit to what BGSU needs. Why the resistance?

[BGFalconfromCincy]

I am not sure why you see this search committee as such a hindrance to the process

You answered your own question in the first sentance of your post

You seem to hate everything at BGSU that does not revolve around athletics.

The committee has academic/non-athletics people on it, and thats why mscarn dislikes it. They believe it should be all athletics people

[BGWriter]

JUST SHUT THE HELL UP!!!! You seem to hate everything at BGSU that does not revolve around athletics.

You seem to be for a competitive wage for our coaches but against competitive wages for faculty. You seem to be for a group of donors trying to exert pressure to buy out a coach or coaches, but you are against a group of faculty exerting pressure to keep educating students a top priority.

I am not sure why you see this search committee as such a hindrance to the process but it is what we have. I am sure there is a professional firm vetting candidates right now. Once they have a qualified pool then the committee will take over. when they feel the correct person for BGSU has been located it will go up to Mazey. It seems pretty logical. We will have a final candidate that is qualified professionally AND is a fit to what BGSU needs. Why the resistance?

That's always a good way to make your point in a discussion.

How about we let the athletic department be run separately from the academic side since intertwining the two seems to put both at cross purposes.

As someone who isn't in the know, please explain to me how BG's faculty members aren't getting a "competitive wage" as compared to other schools of similar size and standing. I honestly hadn't heard this was an issue.

As for the committee...I've already said my piece. It's just a bad way to fill a job like this. You've got unqualified people, and people who will be reporting to the person they will be hiring, involved in the decision on who gets the job.

Who in the real world does such a thing outside of academicians?

[Flipper]

Does any department ...outside of the bookstore ..."pay for itself"? Does the history department pay for itself?
What is a "failed bowl game"? Would a win have made it a non fail? Is it a failure because it cost money to participate? If so...are all other University sponsored events and programs that aren't profitable failures?
Does Dave Clawson now expect to have a voice in the hiring of academic personnel?

On the flip side...do we really think it's realistic to have the athletic department operating as a stand alone? Without a subsidy from student fees, could we field any teams?

[professorjackson]

"Does any department ...outside of the bookstore ...'pay for itself'? Does the history department pay for itself?"

The problem is the premise that the History Department and Intercollegiate Athletics are equally mission central for BGSU. They are not. I don't know if the History department turns a profit, but I do know that a few years ago the university discovered that the College of Arts and Sciences was routinely overspending (to cover essential, general education courses) and planned to make them pay the overspending back. They may not have had to pay it back, but they sure had to trim their budget.


"What is a 'failed bowl game'? Would a win have made it a non fail? Is it a failure because it cost money to participate? If so...are all other University sponsored events and programs that aren't profitable failures?"


Inartful wording, to be sure. "Failed" could apply to the fact that almost nobody attended and we lost money on it. I am certain it was not a comment about the performance of our student athletes, many of whom are among my finest students.

"Does Dave Clawson now expect to have a voice in the hiring of academic personnel?"

Probably not. But I guess you'd have to ask him.

"On the flip side...do we really think it's realistic to have the athletic department operating as a stand alone? Without a subsidy from student fees, could we field any teams?"

I don't know if we could. I know that my undergraduate alma mater dropped football in 1964 because they couldn't afford it. Tough decisions are made all the time. It hurts the credibility of administrators to (in my view legitimately) complain about the reductions in state support of higher education, but to continue pouring money into intercollegiate athletics. If GM and Chrysler had football teams that lost millions, wouldn't they have been the first thing cut?

Again, I am NOT saying we should drop any particular sport. But when the university is cutting the number of faculty, it should consider the cost of non-mission central expenses very critically.

[Roll Along!]

If we're going to be on the same page on this, then I think it's important to actually know what the mission at BGSU is. I googled it up and found this mission statement (which I believe is accurate):

"Bowling Green State University provides educational experiences inside and outside the classroom that enhance the lives of students, faculty and staff. Students are prepared for lifelong career growth, lives of engaged citizenship and leadership in a global society. Within our learning community, we build a welcoming, safe and diverse environment where the creative ideas and achievements of all can benefit others throughout Ohio, the nation and the world."

How is athletics not central to this mission?

[It's the Journey...]

If we're going to be on the same page on this, then I think it's important to actually know what the mission at BGSU is. I googled it up and found this mission statement (which I believe is accurate):

"Bowling Green State University provides educational experiences inside and outside the classroom that enhance the lives of students, faculty and staff. Students are prepared for lifelong career growth, lives of engaged citizenship and leadership in a global society. Within our learning community, we build a welcoming, safe and diverse environment where the creative ideas and achievements of all can benefit others throughout Ohio, the nation and the world."

How is athletics not central to this mission?

How is athletics more central than academics to this mission? We can go, and have gone, around and around on this but we will only end up in the same place we are now. To be honest, we have moved beyond the original topic anyway. Originally we were talking about the importance of using a committee vs. using a search firm to find the next Athletic Director. Now we are talking about the roll of athletics in the big picture of the University. Both are important to the mission to the University. Both can coexist as long as they are kept in balance. Defining that balance is the tricky part. It is a great topic to discuss...in another thread.

So, back to the original topic. The search committee we have in place will make sure the next Athletic Director is the best fit for BGSU athletics. Greg Christopher was brought in as a fund raiser, and I believe he was successful in that. Paul Krebs seemed to have been brought in to stabalize a department drowning in red ink. He made some very tough decisions and took quite a bit of heat for those decisions. I believe the next AD will have experience in all of those areas. The last few AD's, in my opinion, have been given very specific tasks to prepare the department to take the next step. That is where we are right now.

[Roll Along!]

Talk to former student-athletes at BGSU. I'll bet you most will tell you that athletics enhanced their lives as much as educational experiences did. I'll bet you they will tell you that athletics prepared them for lifelong career growth, lives of engaged citizenship and leadership in a global society as much or more than educational experiences did. I'll bet you most will tell you that in athletics they were in a warm, safe, diverse environment where the ideas and achievements of all benefited others as much or more than educational experiences did.

All of those things mentioned in the mission statement are central to what athletics does for a college athlete.

[It's the Journey...]

I do not argue that one bit. I have worked with college athletes for years and I know that is absolutely the case. However, if you talked to member of the Falcon Marching Band, Men's Chorus, Undergraduate Student government, University Activities Organization, Fraternities, Sororities, and many other groups on campus would tell you the same thing.

Balance, that is the name of the game.