More Trouble Ahead for the G5?

[bgsufalcon24]

My feeling is that weather is the number 1 factor as far as attendance is concerned. If it's raining, cold, or egads...snowing, then fans aren't going to turn out like they will in good weather. That's a given. The 2nd factor is recent team performances. There have been many instances of BG suffering a blowout one week and then attendance going way down the next home game. Examples of this include 2005 Western Michigan, 2007 Miami, 2012 West Virginia, and 2013 Indiana. Maybe the unfortunate truth is that after a blowout, our fans go into a shell and disassociate themselves with the program for a while.

Quality of opponent is the third factor. It's not the most important factor, but it's clear that when power schools come to the Doyt we get big crowds, a la Minnesota 2008 and Boise State 2009. But it goes beyond even that. Even in conference, teams like Akron, Buffalo, and Eastern Michigan are attendance killers for us. They never draw like Toledo, or even teams like Ohio. Hell, every time we play Miami there's either a monsoon or a massive fog, and we still draw better for them than we do for teams like EMU when the weather is good.

Lastly, regarding the FCS teams, I know a lot of BG fans won't agree with this...but I feel that those games are a complete waste of time. I've made it a point to never attend those games because they are boring. I went to our game against Rhode Island a few years back just because it was homecoming, but it was completely uninteresting after the first quarter because of how overmatched they were. As such, I have no plan to attend the VMI game, but you bet your a$$ I'll be there for Indiana. I wouldn't miss that for the world.

[Schadenfreude]

Largely because it doesn't matter...is the game against Indiana going to draw that much more interest than the game against VMI?

Indiana is surely going to sell out, just as the Minnesota game did a few years back. These games matter to a lot of people. They matter to me, a great deal. They matter far more than the mismatch that will be the Virginia Military Institute (and God bless them).

I revel in playing David. Some of my favorite moments are when we take our sling shot and nail Goliath right between the eyes, whether that's Purdue or Missouri or whoever. I've driven all over the eastern half of this country in search of the thrill that goes along with watching us topple a Goliath. Sometimes I've seen it happen with my own eyes (Columbia, Mo., 1995; Bowling Green, 2002; Detroit, 2003). Many more times, I've faced a very long car drive home (Birmingham, Ala., 1996; State College, Pa., 1998; Ann Arbor, Mich., 2000; Morgantown, W.Va., 2011; Bloomington, Ind., 2013; and many more times than I can count). But I keep making making these trips -- hoping that maybe next time Bowling Green can chop down another giant ... and punch back into the Top 25 ... and sustain national prominence the way a few other Cinderellas have managed to do over the years.

In the meantime: We still are part of the national pageantry that is big time college football. We play on that same stage every fall. Sure, we are more Roman Solder No. 3 then we are a great Shakespearean hero -- but we are on that same stage. We are part of this thing, whether our team is blocking and tackling on a field in Ypsilanti or in Bowling Green or in Ann Arbor. Every fall, we can hope that we catch some lightning in a bottle and get more than a bit part on the big stage -- that we can play our way to the Orange Bowl the way our rivals in DeKalb did two years back, and finish in the top 10 and be celebrated along with the giants of this sport.

My goodness, if the cartels take that slim chance away from us and lock us in a ghetto with Youngstown State and Western Illinois and the like? I'll be crushed. Just crushed.

I suppose if that ever happens we will all put our best face on it. We will face the future with a stiff upper lip.

But I won't sugar coat it. I'll be crushed. It will be harder for me to pay attention because the games just won't mean as much to me.

[Lord_Byron]

Moving this back to the P5 conferences and their threat to us and those like us. We shouldn't fear pay for players, full-cost scholarships, etc. Those schools are already competing for the top-shelf talent and will continue to fight each other to do so.

The biggest danger to us is repeal of the 1-year wait rule for transfers. If that happens, then we become the system that developing players come to and then transfer to a P5 conference. I dread the thought of that.

[hammb]

Largely because it doesn't matter...is the game against Indiana going to draw that much more interest than the game against VMI?

Indiana is surely going to sell out, just as the Minnesota game did a few years back. These games matter to a lot of people. They matter to me, a great deal. They matter far more than the mismatch that will be the Virginia Military Institute (and God bless them).

I revel in playing David. Some of my favorite moments are when we take our sling shot and nail Goliath right between the eyes, whether that's Purdue or Missouri or whoever. I've driven all over the eastern half of this country in search of the thrill that goes along with watching us topple a Goliath. Sometimes I've seen it happen with my own eyes (Columbia, Mo., 1995; Bowling Green, 2002; Detroit, 2003). Many more times, I've faced a very long car drive home (Birmingham, Ala., 1996; State College, Pa., 1998; Ann Arbor, Mich., 2000; Morgantown, W.Va., 2011; Bloomington, Ind., 2013; and many more times than I can count). But I keep making making these trips -- hoping that maybe next time Bowling Green can chop down another giant ... and punch back into the Top 25 ... and sustain national prominence the way a few other Cinderellas have managed to do over the years.

In the meantime: We still are part of the national pageantry that is big time college football. We play on that same stage every fall. Sure, we are more Roman Solder No. 3 then we are a great Shakespearean hero -- but we are on that same stage. We are part of this thing, whether our team is blocking and tackling on a field in Ypsilanti or in Bowling Green or in Ann Arbor. Every fall, we can hope that we catch some lightning in a bottle and get more than a bit part on the big stage -- that we can play our way to the Orange Bowl the way our rivals in DeKalb did two years back, and finish in the top 10 and be celebrated along with the giants of this sport.

My goodness, if the cartels take that slim chance away from us and lock us in a ghetto with Youngstown State and Western Illinois and the like? I'll be crushed. Just crushed.

I suppose if that ever happens we will all put our best face on it. We will face the future with a stiff upper lip.

But I won't sugar coat it. I'll be crushed. It will be harder for me to pay attention because the games just won't mean as much to me.

This is well said, and I agree whole-heartedly.

If we are no longer part of the upper division (even as disconnected as we currently are) I'll have little to no interest in BG football...and I sure as hell won't be buying season tickets any longer. My enjoyment of BG football is in the fact that every once in a great while we can put together a great season and see ourselves ranked in the top 25. We can every once in awhile find ourselves hosting college GameDay. We can maybe, JUST MAYBE, put together that magical season that has us playing in a bowl game on the largest stage.

Knock us down a level (or theoretically create a new level for just ourselves), I'll lose complete interest in the program.

Furthermore, I'll take it one step further and state if that happens I really think we should drop football entirely. Football programs on the MAC level are very tough to justify as is. We cannot compete financially with the big boys, and as evidenced by our attendance issues I don't think the football program really builds anything on campus unless they're winning. As soon as they start to lose apathy sets in for the students, alumni, and community as they all retreat to watching OSU/UM/etc. The one thing that I think you can use to justify the massive football expenses is the exposure. Playing against big time programs that have big time audiences gets our name out. Beating them gets us on sportscenter. Winning can get us in the top 25, etc. If we're relegated to some lower class that exposure is going to become next to nothing. Wouldn't even be surprised if we saw the barely bringing us any money ESPN contracts go away (although that might have the benefit of letting us play on Saturdays again...). Bottom line, if we're not going to have a shot at getting our name/logo in front of millions of viewers/sports fans, then how do you justify the insane cost of the program? If that's the route it goes, I'd probably just as soon see the money sent to basketball, hockey, etc.

Obviously I don't want football to go away. I love the game, and I love the tailgating. I love following BG football. But if we're going to get pushed aside completely I just don't think I'll have that love anymore, and a large reason will be that I'll have zero interest in college football in general. I don't care about any of the lower divisions now, and I really only care about the MAC and hoping to see them bite the ass of some of the bigger teams. If that goes away then college football is dead to me.

[Flipper]

You guys are validating the argument that we are meaningless....we don't count unless someone else says we do. You sound like the worst of the OSU slappies

Was Doyt Perry not the greatest coach in BG history because he won a bunch of games against lesser teams? Does the National Title he won mean nothing because it was the "small college" title? maybe we should rename the stadium Gregg Brandon Stadium because he coached us to a national ranking and our first "real" bowl game wins?

On a side note...from a marketing perspective...selling the opponent (and that's exactly what I'm hearing) instead of yourself is a loser's bet.

[FalconTurf]

You guys are validating the argument that we are meaningless....we don't count unless someone else says we do. You sound like the worst of the OSU slappies

Was Doyt Perry not the greatest coach in BG history because he won a bunch of games against lesser teams? Does the National Title he won mean nothing because it was the "small college" title? maybe we should rename the stadium Gregg Brandon Stadium because he coached us to a national ranking and our first "real" bowl game wins?

On a side note...from a marketing perspective...selling the opponent (and that's exactly what I'm hearing) instead of yourself is a loser's bet.

Wow, this sums it up! This is what our marketing people must overcome. I love the environment regardless of sellout or small turnout because to me going to BG is like going home. There is something at the Doyt, Anderson and now the Stroh that makes me feel comfortable like home. I wish more people would have those same feelings but I'll enjoy the ones who do and not dwell on those who don't.

[jpfalcon09]

You guys are validating the argument that we are meaningless....we don't count unless someone else says we do. You sound like the worst of the OSU slappies

Was Doyt Perry not the greatest coach in BG history because he won a bunch of games against lesser teams? Does the National Title he won mean nothing because it was the "small college" title? maybe we should rename the stadium Gregg Brandon Stadium because he coached us to a national ranking and our first "real" bowl game wins?

On a side note...from a marketing perspective...selling the opponent (and that's exactly what I'm hearing) instead of yourself is a loser's bet.

To the casual fan, we are meaningless. If you look at schools like Boise and TCU, they had to have consistent stellar seasons to even enter the national conversation and earn respect. You're just not going to enter the general conversation unless you can take down a school that casual fans have heard of, even if its an Indiana or Minnesota.

As for selling BGSU, that involves giving people a reason to go a game. The students are fickle if the team is mediocre because its not a more desirable alternative than watching Ohio State beat down Rumdum State. Many alumni who are casual fans aren't going to want to come to games outside of Homecoming if we're playing VMI or Morgan State, but they will for Indiana and Maryland. BG is a great school as all of us know, but we have an emotional attachment to the school and many others don't.

Ultimately, that rests on Mr. Kingston and the university to market the school and the brand of football as exciting and worth the trip. Hopefully Babers' offense is that selling point this year, along with the MAC Championship, but it needs to be consistent and that's very difficult at the mid-major level. Losing access to games against the power conferences will force the mid-majors to either develop their own "division", move to FCS or scrap their programs, and honestly all three of those options are awful. There's certainly a big contingent of die-hard BGSU sports fans, but not enough to make the program sustainable if schedules are relegated to G5 and FCS schools.

[Flipper]

Why should we care what casual fans think? I get the importance of motivating the students...and I understand that it's hard to undo 18 years of OSU programming...but why should we even care if some guy in TN or WV or anywhere outside of the immediate area knows who we are?

We don't have to be on a Boise or TCU track to have an enjoyable product.

[jpfalcon09]

Why should we care what casual fans think? I get the importance of motivating the students...and I understand that it's hard to undo 18 years of OSU programming...but why should we even care if some guy in TN or WV or anywhere outside of the immediate area knows who we are?

We don't have to be on a Boise or TCU track to have an enjoyable product.

Because casual fans have the potential to become more than that, and that should be the goal of growing the football and other programs to compete on the biggest stage as possible. However, we're getting off-topic here. I want BGSU to be as recognizable as possible in the college sports world and playing on the same field as a major conference team on national TV gives us the best chance to do that. Perhaps its a bit too ambitious of me to think that, but that's how much I love the school. Being removed from that table will have a terrible effect on the entire fan base no matter how passionate they are.

[kdog27]

I get what you're saying Flipper but...

I started following BG football in 1999. Didn't really start following closely until 2001. Had it not been for our success against teams like Northwestern, Mizzou, Kansas, and Purdue I seriously doubt I would still pay much attention to BG football. It's what got me hooked. The thought of us never playing schools like this will definitely put a damper on my fan pride. Does that make me a bad fan or band wagoner? I don't think it does. I've come to expect a certain product and when it is lessened I'm not going be really happy with it. It would be different if I still lived in the area and friends to go to games and tailgate with though. Then the prospect of this wouldn't seem quite so bad. I have to go out of my way watching us on crappy internet feeds now, I wouldn't expect our coverage to do anything but go downhill from that if UT is our signature game every single year.

[Flipper]

I don't think there's a "right" answer here because our response to this issue is inevitably going to be shaped by our own personal experiences as individual fans. Some of you became fans at a point when we became periodic "giant killers" and don't want to see that door closed. My contention is that it's not our door...so figure on it closing at some point.

My concern going forward is this...we assume that the $$$ pot in college athletics is going to be expanding indefinitely. People go broke every year because they made that bet and lost. College football could be a bubble that's juuuuust about to burst....hell, there are people that think te entire collegiate system is a bubble that's about to burst. We have right around 20 people on staff here as football coaches. Compensation varies from person to person...but there is a cost involved in having people around regardless of what you pay them. Looking back to my days here in the 80's...we had maybe six guys total devoted to football (excluding shared trainers and equipment managers). Is that a sustainable number going forward? Is 85 scholarships a good idea? These are the kinds of questions that will have to be addressed when the "money games" go away. They're the kinds of questions that will have to be addressed by everyone should the pool of $$$$ contract.

That's not even tackling the issue of television and the eventual migration to OTT networks instead of traditional cable and broadcast outlets

[jpfalcon09]

I don't think there's a "right" answer here because our response to this issue is inevitably going to be shaped by our own personal experiences as individual fans.

My concern going forward is this...we assume that the $$$ pot in college athletics is going to be expanding indefinitely. People go broke every year because they made that bet and lost. College football could be a bubble that's juuuuust about to burst....hell, there are people that think te entire collegiate system is a bubble that's about to burst. We have right around 20 people on staff here as football coaches. Compensation varies from person to person...but there is a cost involved in having people around regardless of what you pay them. Looking back to my days here in the 80's...we had maybe six guys total devoted to football (excluding shared trainers and equipment managers). Is that a sustainable number going forward? Is 85 scholarships a good idea? These are the kinds of questions that will have to be addressed when the "money games" go away. They're the kinds of questions that will have to be addressed by everyone should the pool of $$$$ contract.

That's not even tackling the issue of television and the eventual migration to OTT networks instead of traditional cable and broadcast outlets

Education has become big business and many universities are simply viewing it as that, a way to make as much money as possible while keeping overhead as low as possible. Its no surprise the biggest schools are advocating exclusivity to games and decision making when they control the purse strings, especially if they can use their athletics as a vehicle to generate more revenue. The only thing holding together college football right now is the fact its the NFL's minor league system.

[Falconfreak90]

I totally agree with SF and Hammb. BG football is so important to me and I don't ever wanna see us in a lower division. I absolutely hate what the P5 is doing...greedy bastards.

[MacGuy]

1. Ohio is graduating fewer high school seniors every year, so for most schools their enrollment will continue to drop.

2. Incoming freshman are much more concerned with what they can do in school to get a job, not sports teams.

3. As the internet allows students to take online classes, some at little cost, eventually students will spend less time on campus and be more disconnected from athletics.

The point is that student attendance can't be counted on to fill stadiums. BG has to develop a fan base elsewhere.

[mscarn]

You guys are validating the argument that we are meaningless....we don't count unless someone else says we do. You sound like the worst of the OSU slappies

Was Doyt Perry not the greatest coach in BG history because he won a bunch of games against lesser teams? Does the National Title he won mean nothing because it was the "small college" title? maybe we should rename the stadium Gregg Brandon Stadium because he coached us to a national ranking and our first "real" bowl game wins?

100% correct. Waiting with baited breath to see whether some ESPN blowhard will make an off-handed remark in reference to one of our victories over a larger school that might henceforth inspire a scarlet and gray brainwashed alum to deign to support his/her alma mater is an exercise in exasperation. Like Flipper said, we like football and they play football for BG. The never-ending quest to win the appeal of the "casual fan" via iPad giveaways and tactics that get further and further away from the basic enduring ties that bind fan and institution is misplaced and ultimately destructive.

As was also mentioned, the apocryphal notion of hordes of new followers flocking to the Doyt merely because a Big 10 opponent happened to have been felled a week or two before is flatly untrue. With decades of evidence, 15,000 people attend home football games with the number fluctuating up or down a few thousand depending on other circumstances. Destroying what we have at present (and what is extremely satisfying to the majority of those who actually do show up and fill the seats) to chase some dubious vision for the future is not the way to go forward.