Eat it BCS!!!!!!!!!!!Boise State National Champions!!!!

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:04 pm

Don't get me wrong -- I love arguing, it's just impossible to advance the argument any further when the parties are working with such different premises. You think the sides are 50-50, I think it's 80-20. You think a playoff system would destroy smaller bowls and drastically alter the landscape, I think everything would continue as it is now except for the playoff teams, with minimal upheaval to everything you hold holy. You think a team like Boise or '04 Utah could never ever ever win a playoff, while I think they have as good a chance as anybody.

These points are all fundamental to forming an argument, and we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on all of them. I just think you're factually incorrect on a lot of them, and you probably think the same of my premises. I don't hear loud voices anywhere screaming "NO PLAYOFF, NO PLAYOFF, AHHHHHH". We all hear plenty of loud voices on the other end. Even though they're not always in the right, the loud voices are the ones that get heard. The next time I see a TV interview in which somebody decries a playoff as a terrible idea, it will be the first. The next time I read such vehement opposition on a message board, will be the second.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:13 pm

NWLB wrote:
Jacobs4Heisman wrote:
Globetrotter wrote:
hammb wrote:
Globetrotter wrote: I dont post solely for Nathan
That's fine, but it seems to me that he'll be your most vociferous voice for the opposition. Generally, I think, most around here are open to the thoughts of a well conceived playoff system. Nathan is the one guy who will engage in this argument with you.

Plus he'll do it again next year, and the year after that, and the year after that. And in the end none of us will ever change the other side's mind.
What I got out of this thread is that, most people want a playoff and money will make there be one eventually. Or Congress and an anti trust suit.

This is where I come down on the "will there be a playoff?" conversation. We've been badly mixing the "will" and "should" arguments in this thread, and they are two entirely different balls of wax.

The place in NWLB's argument where I take the most umbrage, is that he is making grand and often wild assumptions, and putting them forward as incontrovertible evidence. I also think he's delusional in terms of the amount of support for either side. It's really difficult to have a meaningful discussion when each side is working with totally different premises.

The fact that he is the only, and I mean only, person I've EVER come across that is so opposed to a playoff, makes me feel even more strongly that we'll get there eventually.
Ah, and people with no case studies, no evidence, and only sports radio rhetoric saying a playoff is wanted more than what we have, will make more money, and solve all the debates is an assertion of fact? And trust me, I'm not the ONLY person that feels this way, which in your stating such, is exactly the kind of thing you accuse me of, which undermines your point of view in turn.

Not at all. I said you're the only person I've ever come across, not the only person that ever existed. That's a fact, not an assumption. I have no doubt there are plenty of people that share your views, albeit probably to a lesser extent -- I just feel there are probably 4-5 times that many people that agree with me.

Thinking that a Playoff will make more money than what we have now is just common sense. Sure, it's an assumption, but I don't think it's one you can intelligently counter. I also never said it will solve all the debates. I think it solves a lot more than the current system.

None of these are assumptions stated as fact, like when you assert that small bowls would shrivel and die, and the MAC would lose bowl tie-ins in the event of a playoff. I don't think they would at all.

BGorDeath · Post by **BGorDeath** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:15 pm

Flipper wrote:We don't have a playoff because no one has put together a financial package that makes the thing work.

You guys are looking at this from the wrong side of things. You want to find a way to determine a Champion. They want to make $$$. The BCS gives them the $$$ and a close enough version of a champion to make it work.
When someone can find the right amount of money...we'll have a playoff.

Regarding the larger question of what a playoff decides....in this country we decide our champs with playoffs. It's always been that way it always will be that way. When we were kids and said "next touchdown wins" we were deciding things with a playoff. NWLB thinks otherwise because he is a commie. He can kiss my red, white and blue ass!!!

Now...is there anyone here with a medical background who can explain to me why my ass might be red white and blue? I ate some kind of questionable looking mussels on New Year's eve...could that be it?

To get to the bottom of this, what color is the poop being dispensed by your red, white and blue ass? I may know what is going on.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:13 pm

Current poll on ESPN:

"6) Does Boise State deserve a shot at Ohio State for the national championship?

79.2% Yes, they are the only other unbeaten and showed they belong in that game

20.8% No, the BCS system worked fine and Florida is more deserving than Boise State"

That was with over 24,000 responses. Nathan, could this serve as a proxy for a desire for a playoff system?

NWLB · Post by **NWLB** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:31 pm

Lou Dobbs has polls on a nightly basis which he could get 90,000 people to say we should round up the Mexicans and put them into camps. Bill O'Smuck on Fox does the same. ESPN's viewer polls fall into the same catagory. I wouldn't consider it to be on par with a truly un biased Gallop poll. And no, I don't mean the one from five years ago, which was less than even handed in how the questions were posed.

When I see a fan sit-down strike, in the end zone of a BCS game, protesting the fact we don't have a playoff, I'll be impressed.

I get the point people are making, and I'll say I was deeply impressed with Boise. Might have made for a better game than the OSU/FU game. I still don't rate BSU over OSU, though.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:21 pm

NWLB wrote:Lou Dobbs has polls on a nightly basis which he could get 90,000 people to say we should round up the Mexicans and put them into camps. Bill O'Smuck on Fox does the same. ESPN's viewer polls fall into the same catagory.

I understand your point about Dobbs, or O'Rielly, or some other pundit's poll. They cater to a certain perspective. Only veiwers who share their views take part in thier polls. So the results are skewed.

But ESPN caters to sports fans. How is a poll on there being skewed when they are asking sports fans about thier opinions of sports? Are you saying that sports fans that don't want a playoff don't visit ESPN.com for some reason, thus making the results skewed?

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:27 pm

It's now over 60,000 votes and it's up to 81%. It's a little skewed right now, just because Boise is the team of the minute, but there was a poll a little while ago that asked the same question in a much broader sense. I posted it in another playoff thread:

From a SportsNation BCS poll with over 209,000 votes...

Does college football need a playoff system?

89.8% Yes

10.2% No

BGSUFootballFan · Post by **BGSUFootballFan** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:03 pm

I love college football the way it is, leave it be. Last nights game wouldnt have been nearly as great if we would have known that Boise gets equal money and equal recruits. The rules might suck for the little schools, but thats what makes it so great when they win! Boise St very easily could beat Ohio St, but that doesnt mean they deserve a shot! Playoffs arent as good. Bowl games are unique, its what makes college football, COLLEGE FOOTBALL! No other sport has anything like a bowl game! Its my favorite thing in the world and I would probably cry myself to sleep without it! SO PLEASE DONT MESS UP COLLEGE FOOTBALL WITH A DAMN PLAYOFF. I promise you all I'm the biggest diehard college football fan in this forum and as much as I obsess over BG they are only 1/119th of why I love this game! Besides if BG had equal money and an equal shot at a National Championship as USC, then I would probably consider finding myself another school to root for, because the biggest lure of BG is that they shouldnt be able to go 11-3 and beat up on Big10 school and yet they did! Bottom line, dont change a thing and I'll be happy!

Falconboy · Post by **Falconboy** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:35 pm

BGSUFootballFan wrote:I love college football the way it is, leave it be. Last nights game wouldnt have been nearly as great if we would have known that Boise gets equal money and equal recruits. The rules might suck for the little schools, but thats what makes it so great when they win! Boise St very easily could beat Ohio St, but that doesnt mean they deserve a shot! Playoffs arent as good. Bowl games are unique, its what makes college football, COLLEGE FOOTBALL! No other sport has anything like a bowl game! Its my favorite thing in the world and I would probably cry myself to sleep without it! SO PLEASE DONT MESS UP COLLEGE FOOTBALL WITH A DAMN PLAYOFF. I promise you all I'm the biggest diehard college football fan in this forum and as much as I obsess over BG they are only 1/119th of why I love this game! Besides if BG had equal money and an equal shot at a National Championship as USC, then I would probably consider finding myself another school to root for, because the biggest lure of BG is that they shouldnt be able to go 11-3 and beat up on Big10 school and yet they did! Bottom line, dont change a thing and I'll be happy!

Wow, that has got to be the dumbest, stupid, illogicial and unbelievable comment I've heard from a BG fan ever on this board.

BGSUFootball fan, your happy with BG always being the little school that isnt' supposed to beat BCS schools but if we do win once and a while thats more great and amazing that us being able to compete every year with a BCS team possibly doing series damage in a playoff? That my friend is ASININE! I want more for BG not just a Mac chamionship and nice success in the anals of "mid-majordom". I'm seriously appalled ar your view and hope to God, that your view is an extremely rare one amongst BG fans or other teamas fans in general.

RobbyFalcon · Post by **RobbyFalcon** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:45 pm

Since I'm sure they read these things, Congrats to Boise State!

I like college football the way it is. I like how every game matters. It's the only sport where you can't take a week off.

That being said, I would be glued to my TV for every NCAA football play-off game.

If needed, I can back up my arguments with insults.

Go BG!

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:59 pm

RobbyFalcon wrote:
I like college football the way it is. I like how every game matters. It's the only sport where you can't take a week off.

The Florida-Auburn game this year apparently didn't matter at all.

And more insults are always welcome

jeebus · Post by **jeebus** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:05 pm

the problem i see here is that all of midmajor fans including ourselves seem to think that if this playoff system was in place we'd be slugging it out on the front lines every year... well i kinda doubt it. instead of bowl games the yearly favorites (read: big schools) would just play playoffs. the mac would be left out i imagine. the only way to get around this would be to have EVERY conf. champ in the playoffs and frankly that'd be too many games for most ppl not to mention it would cut out (and god id laugh if this happened) notre dame and other unaffiliateds. odds are a playoff system would take the top ranked on the polls and have them slug it out....we'd have to get up to 8 or 6 or so before we'd even go....or else you'd have to cut down the amount of regular season games to the point where they're almost just the equal of pre-season games in the nfl. your year to year playoff contenders would likely be something like osu, usc, texas, um, oklahoma etc etc playoffs would be great imo, but its how to GET to the playoffs that would have everyone still saying "not fair"

San Diego Falcon · Post by **San Diego Falcon** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:08 pm

It's now over 60,000 votes and it's up to 81%. It's a little skewed right now, just because Boise is the team of the minute

and one could argue that that poll is skewed the OTHER way (i.e., how many of those 19% are from the SEC's footprint?)

BGDrew · Post by **BGDrew** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:09 pm

falconboy wrote:Wow, that has got to be the dumbest, stupid, illogicial and unbelievable comment I've heard from a BG fan ever on this board.

Um, falconboy, do you read half of the things you post? Or are you too busy watching the Ocho?

Falconboy · Post by **Falconboy** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:14 pm

BGDrew wrote:
falconboy wrote:Wow, that has got to be the dumbest, stupid, illogicial and unbelievable comment I've heard from a BG fan ever on this board.
Um, falconboy, do you read half of the things you post? Or are you too busy watching the Ocho?

Did you read the comment in question? It sure seemed pretty defeatest and just utterly ridiculous to me.