Matt Johnson Cited

[Schadenfreude]

My issue is not so much with an occasional visit to the Casino but when players go and how many times they go. Is it effecting their athletics and/or schooling? Do they have a gambling problem? If they are going more than twice a week (probably generous) and spending more than an hour or two each time then I personally think there are issues. If they are spending more than $100-$200 as a student ,unless they are somehow independently wealthy, then they have a problem. And if so where can the problem lead? Gambling addiction can impact individuals and families just as much as alcoholic addiction. My neighbor lost his house and his wife and son because of such an addiction. Is placing bets on NFL games with bookies next? Online poker? High stake card games? Loans from sharks? It's a slippery slope and really the extent of Gmartin's observations should be seriously analyzed and addressed if necessary for what is likely a minority of the team's players.

This is a very good post.

I think people have been too tough on gmartin. I also sense that people are mixing up their libertarian ideals about what we all have a legal right to do in the Land of the Free with what is in the best interest of Falcon football.

To take the most extreme example: It is now legal in Colorado to smoke as much weed as you want, so long as you are at least 21. This means that, as far as I know, the seniors on the University of Colorado or Colorado State football teams have a legal right to get as stoned as they want as often as they want, so long as they are off campus.

Would that be good for the Buffalo or Ram football teams? No. Would it be fair to fans or boosters? Of course not. Perpetually stoned players don't win championships. I assume that Buffalo and Ram football programs have a team rule about smoking weed.

Likewise, Alcohol is perfectly legal in the United States, and it has been for more than 80 years now. That doesn’t mean football players ought to be boozing it up every night. Fat, drunk, and stupid or hungover is no way to win a MAC title. That kind of thing is destructive and it hurts teams. So, while Matt Johnson and everyone else of legal age certainly has a legal right to drink as much as they want as often as they want, living their lives that way would hurt the team. I assume that Falcon football has a team rule about drinking. If not, the team should.

Gambling, while perfectly legal, can be just as destructive as these other behaviors. I thought fredthefalcon explained this well. One toke, or one drink, or one poker game isn't going to hurt the team. But smoking or drinking or gambling every night would definitely hurt the team.

If gmartin is right and these players are up at the casino four nights a week, that raises an eyebrow for me. That's an awful lot of time in Toledo when they could be studying or practicing or getting a good night's sleep.

Plus, let's be honest: Four nights a week at the casino sounds awfully expensive on a college student's budget.

No one is trying to shut down the casino. No one is saying the players can't have a beer. But four nights a week?

[Flipper]

Wow...that's quite a raft of assumptions. Do we know that the same guys are up there four nights a week....do we know they're up there four nights every week...do we have any inking re the credibility of the person making the accusation...is he keeping track of names, dates etc...or are we simply going to rely on his/her memory about the comings and goings of people he sees...or perhaps think he sees.

Actually...the only thing we know for certain is that Burbrink and Johnson were up there recently and won some coin. We don't know how many guys go there...we don't know how frequently they go there and we don't know how much coin they're dropping when they do. This outpouring of sturm, drang and angst is built largely around the say so of someone who appears to have an issue with "his" money be spent on gambling and it's been seized upon by people who want to use it to take that arrogant losing SOB we hired to replace the Godlike Dave Clawson down a peg. That no discipline spread offense running jagoff lost three straight and he hasn't strung anyone up by their thumbs for missing class...by God he's another Gregg Brandon..that lousy SOB who practically turned the Doyt into some kind of whorehouse.

I am truly exasperated by the mixture of puritanical nonsense, historical revision and general pettiness that I've seen displayed here......

[apollo]

While I agree there are a lot of people jumping to conclusions and this wouldn't be as big a deal if we weren't coming off a losing streak, there still is a curiosity to the level of focus of this team. I don't think its coincidence that gmartin mentions players gambling and a week later we have an incident which is directly tied to the casino. I don't know any details other than the sentinel story, but I still think there is more to this whole incident. College age kids do really dumb things, but I just can't wrap my head around calling the police to help sell a practical joke (unless you are friendly with someone in law enforcement and they are in on the joke). Either a level of dumb I don't want out of a quarterback or we aren't getting the whole story.

[Schadenfreude]

Wow...that's quite a raft of assumptions. Do we know that the same guys are up there four nights a week....do we know they're up there four nights every week...

I don't know for certain that any of these things are true. I was clear about that.

But let me ask you this: Why are you acting certain these things are not true?

Here's what I know: gmartin, a guy who has been on this board for quite a while, who says he is in Falcon Club (which ought to be an easy enough thing to confirm) says this is true. Only days later, the team's top quarterback is getting charged with a crime and part of the story involves him and another star player up at the casino, with one of them carrying around $1,500 in cash at football practice.

It seems to me that gmartin has some credibility right now. The casino is pretty clearly a distraction right now. You think Burbrink is focused right now?

I do not have an agenda here. I am not a puritan. I am not one of these fans who thinks the answer to every problem is discipline. I'm disappointed by this season, but I'm probably more optimistic those most fans on this board. We won the East. I'm trying to focus on that. I don't have it in for Dino Babers and his staff.

But I don't want young men getting hurt, either. This is something the coaches need to take seriously. If players are going to the casino anywhere near as often as gmartin says, there is the potential for a mental health issue here. And if the coaches were anywhere near as dismissive of that possibility as some of the people on this board, then this program would have a really big problem.

I suspect that the coaching staff will address this properly. BGSU has never had a major NCAA violation. That tells me that, historically, BGSU have maintained a pretty good culture in its athletic department. So, we will see.

[Dayons_Den]

Great post Schad ^^^^^^^

[jpfalcon09]

Wow...that's quite a raft of assumptions. Do we know that the same guys are up there four nights a week....do we know they're up there four nights every week...

I don't know for certain that any of these things are true. I was clear about that.

But let me ask you this: Why are you acting certain these things are not true?

Here's what I know: gmartin, a guy who has been on this board for quite a while, who says he is in Falcon Club (which ought to be an easy enough thing to confirm) says this is true. Only days later, the team's top quarterback is getting charged with a crime and part of the story involves him and another star player up at the casino, with one of them carrying around $1,500 in cash at football practice.

It seems to me that gmartin has some credibility right now. The casino is pretty clearly a distraction right now. You think Burbrink is focused right now?

I do not have an agenda here. I am not a puritan. I am not one of these fans who thinks the answer to every problem is discipline. I'm disappointed by this season, but I'm probably more optimistic those most fans on this board. We won the East. I'm trying to focus on that. I don't have it in for Dino Babers and his staff.

But I don't want young men getting hurt, either. This is something the coaches need to take seriously. If players are going to the casino anywhere near as often as gmartin says, there is the potential for a mental health issue here. And if the coaches were anywhere near as dismissive of that possibility as some of the people on this board, then this program would have a really big problem.

I suspect that the coaching staff will address this properly. BGSU has never had a major NCAA violation. That tells me that, historically, BGSU have maintained a pretty good culture in its athletic department. So, we will see.

+1, echoes my feelings too. I want this staff to succeed because I do believe they can put BG into an access bowl position. I have nothing against Dino or his staff. I'm concerned about players getting hooked on this stuff. I've had family members succumb to gambling addiction and it destroys many things. I have confidence that the coaches and Kingston have addressed this with the team and obviously Matt as well, so we move forward. There's a game Saturday and I want a W.

[Beaker]

Schad said it well in terms of libertarianism not meshing perfectly with what's best for the team having success on the field. I consider myself very libertarian leaning and I don't argue that the casinos should be shut down or that we go back to prohibition. I don't frequent casinos myself and as I've gotten older and wiser I keep a tight reign on alcohol consumption. Those are personal choices that I make because I know that excesses in those areas have the potential to jeopardize success with my job and my relationships with my family. I don't campaign for taking that choice away from others.

The guys that made the commitment to put on the Falcon uniform made an implied consent to give their best effort to help this program win. If they are drinking or gambling to excess, then that's not in the best interest of the team and it shows a lack of seriousness. If you have a true commitment to your team, then you make personal sacrifices in the interest of the success of your team and the reaching of certain goals. I'm sure many on this board often put in more hours at work than we have to. We wouldn't be breaking any rules by working 8 hour days, but we put in the extra effort and make the sacrifice of our time because we have a goal of excelling at what we do and achieving career related goals. We could stay and close down the bar every night, drinking to extreme excess and take a cab home and that wouldn't be illegal, but it also wouldn't be a good idea. I don't see football as any different. Staying away from legal but destructive behavior is a sacrifice all players should be making because they should have a commitment to the greater good of the team. As someone said previously, they have the rest of their lives to make choices and do what they want.

[Flipper]

I assume things to untrue until they are proven to be true...from a scientific, philosphical and nuts and bolts "hey this is life" perspective, you will avoid a ton of heartache and pain if you approach things that way.

"I spin more rhymes than a lazy Susan...I'm innocent until my guilt is proven"....JRoc...know what I'm sayin'?

I agree that coaches need to be vigilant re the off field antics of their players...it's their moral responsibility to do so as educators, it's their contractual duty as employess of the University. I may differ with some here re what that actually means in a practical sense...but I agree wholeheartedly with the general premise.

I think we've completely jumped the track here because so many have taken a tiny kernel of information...actually it's more of a suggestion of information...and not just run with it, hell they've sprinted with it like Ben Johnson on steroids to conclude that we have a team rife with habitual gamblers being run by some laissez faire clown who is paying zero attention to the literal destruction of our once proud program. I'm completely mystified by the apparently deeply held notion that gambling is an especially bad vice....I tend to think it's less of a danger than a gazillion other things college kids can get into...including video games. I've yet to hear someone come on here and say "I don't want my Falcon Club donation going towards the purchase of 'Call of Duty'."

Losing sucks...we're doing too much of it lately. Yes..I agree that the team seems to lack focus right now. I don't think it serves any positive end to proclaim that these issues are a sign that satan himself...Gregg Brandon...has returned in the form of Dino Babers (for the record, I don't thin GB is satan...I think he got in over his head here). This is Dino Babers third year as a HC...his first at an FBS school. I tend to think he's feeling his way through the process and learning a lot as he goes. At least I hope he is...I think we'll be better off if we let him go through that process and give him a chance to right the ship. It's not like the AD is going to move him out of here any time soon even if he doesn't ever get the program to the top of the heap that doesn't really matter anymore (P5 schools). That's one edge Clawson had over Dino...Clawson walked into a dumpster fire, he could learn from his mistakes under the blanket of lowered expectations. Dino walked into a situation where the expectations were far higher and I must admit, he managed that initial process poorly by overpromising . #falconfast? Please....

[Lord_Byron]

. . .we've completely jumped the track here ..

I would have said we've jumped something else.

[Flipper]

Is there someone with a gun to your head forcing you to read this thread?

[Lord_Byron]

Actually, someone threatened to shoot this dog.




apologies to National Lampoon

[Flipper]

I love that picture....National Lampoon was a great magazine in the 1970's....