Ay-Ziggy-Zoomba.com

Josh made it, Jansenn still has a chance, Khary is there but not doin to great. We have a great team this year, who do you guys think will be playing on sundays? I think Mruc PJ and Cole will be, Mitchell has a shot but I dont know how great his chances are. What do You guys thinK?

Pope - sorry no chance for him... too many great runningbacks and I dont see him as that ultra quick speed back or the power back that NFL teams crave. The tweeners have a tough time in the NFL.

Sharon probably if you loses in case of the drops.

Magner just makes plays so he reminds me of Wayne Cherbet.

NFL teams that run a west coast offense like to have RB's who run north/south and who have the hands to be viable option as a reciever.

That describes PJ Pope to a T

Flipper wrote:NFL teams that run a west coast offense like to have RB's who run north/south and who have the hands to be viable option as a reciever.

That describes PJ Pope to a T

True, but they also like speed. PJ is not fast enough to be a fast back in the NFL, and he's not big enough to be a powerful NFL back. I love PJ immensely, because he's got good instincts & vision, but I don't see him as an NFLer.

Sharon & Magner are NFL potentials, IMO. Newson is as well. Mruczkowski is a near lock.

Scott M is a slam dunk NFLer, no doubt.

hammb - I think Pope has a chance, but with a lot of caveats. I think he has the tools to be a situational (read: Third Down) back. BUT, it would have to be with the right team.

Good example - look at the Eagles. Duce Staley left, leaving them with two backs (Buckhalter & Westbrook) to split the load. Their third back will be ... Reno Mahe, a converted WR from BYU. He's no burner and not a big thundering back. Pope could easily fill that role. But he'd have to catch the eye of just the right team.

I love Cole, but he's in the same situation. He could catch on, but it would have to be with a team that needs a situational posession receiver. There have been an incredible number of high profile WRs the last few years in the draft and they have everyone thinking big (6-3, etc.) or exceedingly fast or both.

Hammb - what about Keon? Like Patton, he's a playmaker. But does he have the speed?

Speaking of the draft, let me say for the record how freakin' PO'ed I was that the Eagles picked a QB from Delaware over J5. Yes, yes, I know the Eagles wouldn't be a good fit for J5, since McNabb will be starting for the next decade, but the principle of the thing just galls me.

hammb wrote:

Flipper wrote:NFL teams that run a west coast offense like to have RB's who run north/south and who have the hands to be viable option as a reciever.

That describes PJ Pope to a T

True, but they also like speed. PJ is not fast enough to be a fast back in the NFL, and he's not big enough to be a powerful NFL back. I love PJ immensely, because he's got good instincts & vision, but I don't see him as an NFLer.

Sharon & Magner are NFL potentials, IMO. Newson is as well. Mruczkowski is a near lock.

I give PJ a better shot than that. He is great at catching the ball out of the backfield that I think he could make a viable thrid down back for somebody. And given that we use a spread offense (no TE, no FB) so much, he gets a chance to stay in and block on occasion. having good hands and being able to pick up a blitzing LB = third down back in the NFL. (IMO)
I have my doubts about Cole making it. He has great hands but not much size. I remember thinking Mark Schzlacik (sp?) had a great shot in the NFL because of his height and ability to catch anything thrown in his direction. Alas, I don't think he ever even went to an NFL training camp. I think Cole will suffer the same fate.

1987alum wrote:Scott M is a slam dunk NFLer, no doubt.

hammb - I think Pope has a chance, but with a lot of caveats. I think he has the tools to be a situational (read: Third Down) back. BUT, it would have to be with the right team.

Good example - look at the Eagles. Duce Staley left, leaving them with two backs (Buckhalter & Westbrook) to split the load. Their third back will be ... Reno Mahe, a converted WR from BYU. He's no burner and not a big thundering back. Pope could easily fill that role. But he'd have to catch the eye of just the right team.

Pope could probably play 3rd down back for the reasons you stated. Mainly, because his greatest asset is his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield, teams like that in their 3rd down back. Unfortunately many like some speed & KR abilities in their 3rd down back as well, and Pope will never be that. As you said it probably depends on what teams are looking and those teams, specifically, are looking for. I'd put him as a long shot. He's certainly not what a team would typically look for in a feature back, but UDFA 3rd down backs are not uncommon.

I love Cole, but he's in the same situation. He could catch on, but it would have to be with a team that needs a situational posession receiver. There have been an incredible number of high profile WRs the last few years in the draft and they have everyone thinking big (6-3, etc.) or exceedingly fast or both.

I give Cole more respect than you guys, I think, as an NFL player. His size is quite good for an NFL WR, although he would want to put on some muscle, he probably would in an NFL training program. He's listed at 6'2 183, if he could get that up to 200 w/o losing any speed I think he'd be wise to do that. I remember when he first started playing hoops my initial thought was that he didn't look out of place, size-wise, on the basketball court. You get a better feel for a players size in hoops than you do on the football field sometimes, and I thought he looked big enough to play WR in the NFL, for sure.

Then there is his penchant for never dropping a pass, NFL teams notice that. More importantly they're going to look at what he did against big time competition. To put it mildly Cole Magner made Chris Gamble his beyotch. That was a first round pick Corner that was getting out muscled and out quicked for inside position on slant routes all day. When he caught the ball on the screen plays (WHICH I HATE) he was making Gamble look like crap as a tackler. Again, that was a first round pick. NFL teams will see that and think he's worth a shot. Then there is the sheer magnitude of the passes & yards he puts up. Yes, the NFL is looking for the 6'4 guys that run a 4.2, but there is still a place, IMO, for a "possession WR". Beyond that I really think Cole is faster than we think he is. I'm thinking a legit 4.5, maybe down to 4.4, type guy who runs superb routes to ALWAYS be open.

Cole may not have the prototype NFL size & speed, but he is certainly adequate in both areas. He also seems to have every little thing that can make up for those deficiencies in his favor. He catches everything, runs great routes, and knows how to make plays. He will likely not get drafted, but I do think that he'll get a shot, and has a good chance to stick if he shows them what he's showed us.

Hammb - what about Keon? Like Patton, he's a playmaker. But does he have the speed?

I think Keon has more ability to play in the NFL than Patton did. Speed wise Patton may have a slight leg up, but you'll notice that he's not fast enough for NFL CB. He's been moved to Safety, as will Keon. The difference is that Keon has played safety here and he's played it VERY well. He has great instincts at safety and is a good, strong tackler. He has good ball skills as well, although not as good as Patton's. In all I think he is a slightly better NFL prospect than Patton, even though he has a little less speed. I still don't think he's draftable.

Speaking of the draft, let me say for the record how freakin' PO'ed I was that the Eagles picked a QB from Delaware over J5. Yes, yes, I know the Eagles wouldn't be a good fit for J5, since McNabb will be starting for the next decade, but the principle of the thing just galls me.

The Eagles were the perfect fit for J5. He needed to go somewhere with an entrenched starter, because he will not be ready to play for 2-3 years anyways. Somewhere along the line he'd get a look due to injury or whatever. Their system fits J5 quite well, in that he reminds me a LOT of Donovan as it is. J5 might actually be more accurate than McNabb, although probably is a little less mobile. One of my buddies is a hardcore Eagles fan, and he was royally pissed when they passed on Harris. Despite all he's done in college, I would've rather had J5 than McCown too, as a Browns fan. Of course I'm biased

Sad though it is, if you just want to play percentages, you can look at history and see that even our very best players have typically not been able to play in the NFL. Josh Harris, arguably among our best players ever, was only a 6th round pick.

That being said, I would give Keon a shot. I don't think PJ has even a remote shot. Mruz is on the field, I believe.

Leaving us with Cole. I am torn. My instincts tell me he's just short of being able to get it done. But, Hammb makes good points. He brings it against good teams, and he has mental/intangible qualities which I think help him to elevate his game. I wouldn't count Cole out. As a player, I love Cole, and would love to see him make it.

J5 was drafted higher because the QB's available after Ben were all equal in one fashion or another and there was enormous amount of QB's in the draft.

J5 was drafted higher because the QB's available after Ben were all equal in one fashion or another and there was enormous amount of QB's in the draft.

r4f: Are you saying J5 was drafted too high? Your statement seems to contradict itself. I think in many drafts, J5 would have gone a lot higher.

hammb: I can't even talk about the Browns. The fact that they passed up j5 for McClown ... it ... it ... grrrr ... I still can't talk about it.

No I was saying that in any other draft he would've been drafted higher... but there were tons of QB prospects that fit the third-6th round mold.

I think Cole could be drafted depending on what type of season he has, if he can somehow do better than last year, he could get some looks. Especially if he can do what he did to Ohio State to Oklahoma. THAT would get him noticed. If Bowling Green can make a bowl game again this year, which I think that they will, it will get him 2 more National spotlight games where he can shine.

About J5, I was shocked that he was drafted so late, but when it comes down to it I think (playing time wise) the Ravens were the best fit. Kyle Boller has been having injury problems, and truthfully I think Anthony Wright did better while he was in. But it was Bollers rookie year. Josh is already the third-string QB for them, and should be able to move into the second string spot within 2 seasons, possibly this year. Boller will still be the starter, but if he gets hurt again, I think Josh could move to be starter.

redskins4ever wrote:No I was saying that in any other draft he would've been drafted higher... but there were tons of QB prospects that fit the third-6th round mold.

Do you really mean drafted lower?