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This Fall will be four years since BG went into OSU and lost a hard fought game to the Buckeyes 24-17.

We always hear how the Buckeyes send so many players to the NFL each year. But, look at the skill players on the field that day...

OSU
QB Scott McMullen (Krenzel sat out injured that game)
RB Lydell Ross
RB Maurice Hall
WR Michael Jenkins (Atlanta)
WR Drew Carter (Carolina)

BG
QB Josh Harris (Ravens, Browns, Giants)
RB PJ Pope (Bears, Packers)
WR Charles Sharon (Jaguars)
WR Steve Sanders (Browns)
'
Throw in BG lineman Scott Mruczkowski (Chargers) and Kory Lichtensteiger (2008?), back-up QB Omar Jacobs (Steelers, Eagles, Chiefs), and kicker Shaun Shuisham (Steelers, Cowboys, Redskins) and that team has been well represented in the NFL ranks.

I think we tend to forget how talented those Urban Meyer teams were back then. Yes, Brandon was the head coach that year but it was clearly built by Meyer. Part of Brandon's downfall has been his inability to replace the talent level of those teams.

Rollo83 wrote: Part of Brandon's downfall has been his inability to replace the talent level of those teams.

I don't disagree with your initial assertion, but I must say that I have been very, very impressed by the recruiting job that Brandon's staff has done over the past two recruiting seasons. It remains to be seen this year whether or not the staff can develop these guys, but my word do we have a lot of talent coming into this program right now. Call me foolish, but I do have faith in our staff.

I think Brandon has done a fine job of recruiting. We always seem to be at or near the top of the MAC rankings when signing day rolls around.

I think he's done a very poor job of scouting to know which players will fit into his scheme, and an even worse job developing the talent that he brings in.

Case in Point: Pete Winovich & Anthony Turner were two of the best recruits Brandon has landed, and neither has really fit in here.

Rollo83 wrote:This Fall will be four years since BG went into OSU and lost a hard fought game to the Buckeyes 24-17.

We always hear how the Buckeyes send so many players to the NFL each year. But, look at the skill players on the field that day...

OSU
QB Scott McMullen (Krenzel sat out injured that game)
RB Lydell Ross
RB Maurice Hall
WR Michael Jenkins (Atlanta)
WR Drew Carter (Carolina)

BG
QB Josh Harris (Ravens, Browns, Giants)
RB PJ Pope (Bears, Packers)
WR Charles Sharon (Jaguars)
WR Steve Sanders (Browns)
'
Throw in BG lineman Scott Mruczkowski (Chargers) and Kory Lichtensteiger (2008?), back-up QB Omar Jacobs (Steelers, Eagles, Chiefs), and kicker Shaun Shuisham (Steelers, Cowboys, Redskins) and that team has been well represented in the NFL ranks.

I think we tend to forget how talented those Urban Meyer teams were back then. Yes, Brandon was the head coach that year but it was clearly built by Meyer. Part of Brandon's downfall has been his inability to replace the talent level of those teams.

Its interesting yet I would point out that and im not looking at any nfl websites right now, that all the OSU have NFL homes and the BGSU guys like pope released AUg 24th has no home, Harris is playing Arena football ( holding for kicks...far from starting QB) Sharron is doing well and Sander should be solid on the Browns, Omar is in Europe and with NFL Europe now defunct likely will not see an NFL field ( yes NFL Europe folded on AUG 3 see press release at end of this post. OSU while that game was awesome and those seasons great we must look at the reality that is, as long as the BCS monopoly is in charge of D1a you can rest easily that the lions share of quality skills NFl futures remain at BCS top schools and that BGSu will continue going to feel good bowls and that ESPN will continue to talk about the same schools as being the best in the nation all only because all conference champions do not have a fair and equal shot at a real National title.
*NFL Europa closes

National Football League



The NFL has determined that it will switch the focus of its international business strategy to presenting the NFL to the widest possible global audience, including broader media visibility and the staging of international regular-season games, and will discontinue NFL Europa.

"The time is right to re-focus the NFL's strategy on initiatives with global impact, including worldwide media coverage of our sport and the staging of live regular-season NFL games," commented Mark Waller, senior vice president of NFL International.

"We will continue to build our international fan base by taking advantage of technology and customized digital media that make the NFL more accessible on a global scale than ever before and through the regular-season game experience. NFL Europa has created thousands of passionate fans who have supported that league and our sport for many years and we look forward to building on this foundation as we begin this new phase of our international development."

Last October, NFL owners passed a resolution to stage up to two international regular-season games per season. The new international series will launch on Sunday, October 28 when the Miami Dolphins host the New York Giants at London's Wembley Stadium.

In addition to the 2007 game in the United Kingdom, the NFL is preparing to stage regular-season games in future seasons in Germany, Mexico and Canada, with Germany being a strong candidate to host a regular-season NFL game in 2008.

NFL Europa began in 1991 as the World League of American Football, with 10 teams competing in the United States and Europe. After a two-year hiatus (1993-94) following the 1992 season, the league returned in 1995 as a six-team, all-European venture, with five teams in Germany since 2005, and has existed in that format through its final season in 2007.

You could put Cole Magner in that group as well. He was close to making the Falcons and spent time on the Ravens practise squad.

I still think what could have been. BG made a nice 4th quarter comeback and if they would have received the call on the fumble by OSU, they would have had the ball at midfield for their last drive with more time on the clock, than where they started the drive.

Harris was not recruited by Urban Meyer...neither was Mitch Hewitt or Jansson Patton and they played significant roles that day. They were recruited by Gary Blackney. Patton signed as a UDFA with Pittsburgh, I believe, after the 2003 season. Urban is one of the best coaches in the country...I put him in the Top 3-4 with Bob Stoops and Jim Tressel or Joe Pa. But I have yet to see him coach a team made up completely of his recruits. But, at UF, he'll do ok cuz there's a little bit of talent in that state.

I disagree that Coach B has not been able to bring in talent. What do you base that statement on? And to say Brandon has had a downfall is suspect, IMO. One bad season doesn't define him. Joe Pa had 3 or 4 losing seasons in Happy Valley...his downfall? Penn State has a great shot to win the Big 10 this year.

College football is an extremely competitive business. Getting to the top is difficult...staying there is even harder. The jury is still out on Coach. The way I see it, he has 2 years left on his contract. Either we get the job done and win the MAC or there could be a help wanted sign on the outside of the Sebo Ct. In this coaching profession, win or else...everyone knows that. Coach's kids go to class, earn degrees and, for the most part, stay outta trouble. Let's see what 2007 and 08 hold before making a final judgement. I think you're going to see a coach work his tail off to win this league. After all, his job depends on it.

GO FALCONS!!!!!!

tiznow wrote:You could put Cole Magner in that group as well. He was close to making the Falcons and spent time on the Ravens practise squad.

I still think what could have been. BG made a nice 4th quarter comeback and if they would have received the call on the fumble by OSU, they would have had the ball at midfield for their last drive with more time on the clock, than where they started the drive.

Absolutely tiz. Will Teague came outta the pile with the ball at the OSU 48 and there was still 1:46 left in the 4th. An elderly OSU fan sitting next to me (who, BTW, was very complimentary of BG. He said "Every time you guys come in here, it's a fight for OSU. You play well here"), said "Son, you aren't going to get that call. We both know BG recovered the ball but you won't get that call here". He wasn't being arrogant, just right.

IMO, the play that killed us that day was 4th and 2 for OSU at the BG 33, with 2 min left in the 1st half. OSU's lead was only 10-7. A stop there could have insured BG would be down only 3 at the worst...and a stop would have pumped up the Offense to possibly drive down and score. We had been moving the ball on OSU pretty easily. But Hall busts thru the line and raced to the end zone on that play and just like that, BG was down 17-7. People can blame Craig Jarrett all they want for not coming up with the Magner flea flicker pass...and some foolishly still do. But that 4th down play was a knife in the heart.

We also had a false start inside the 10 ydl after Patton recovered the onside kick. BG trailed 24-14 and was looking to put up 7 more and really tighten the noose. But we were flagged and moved back 5 yards and had to settle for the FG and 24-17. IMO, if 3 plays go the other way, BG walks outta there with the win. And that makes it even worse.

Had BG scored to pull within one, there is no doubt in my mind Coach would have gone for 2 and the win...possibly a replay of the BiG NW win in 2001. Alas, it was not meant to be. I was heartbroken watching the players exit the locker room after that game. Many had tears in their eyes knowing a golden opportunity had eluded them....that was tough to see. But I was so damn proud of that team taking the #4 team and defending BCS Champs down to the wire on their turf. Those OSU fans were sh***ing green twinkies at the end.

2003: 11-3
2004: 9-3
2005: 6-5
2006: 4-8

That's a downfall, Freak.

I know you're a Brandon fan, and I can respect that, but this guy has flat out not gotten it done as head coach. I am still holding out hope that the AD will be able to can him after this season if things don't turn around drastically, but you're probably right that he'll get the '08 season to prove himself as well.


I have no doubt the guy will work his tail off, but my doubt lies in his ability. I could work my butt off to become a PGA golfer, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen; the natural ability is just not there. I wish Brandon the best, and I hope I'm wrong. I hope we come out and win 8-9 games this year and rebound as a program. I'm just not convinced that Brandon knows how to fix the problems this team has.

Falconfreak90 wrote:

tiznow wrote:You could put Cole Magner in that group as well. He was close to making the Falcons and spent time on the Ravens practise squad.

I still think what could have been. BG made a nice 4th quarter comeback and if they would have received the call on the fumble by OSU, they would have had the ball at midfield for their last drive with more time on the clock, than where they started the drive.

Absolutely tiz. Will Teague came outta the pile with the ball at the OSU 48 and there was still 1:46 left in the 4th. An elderly OSU fan sitting next to me (who, BTW, was very complimentary of BG. He said "Every time you guys come in here, it's a fight for OSU. You play well here"), said "Son, you aren't going to get that call. We both know BG recovered the ball but you won't get that call here". He wasn't being arrogant, just right.

IMO, the play that killed us that day was 4th and 2 for OSU at the BG 33, with 2 min left in the 1st half. OSU's lead was only 10-7. A stop there could have insured BG would be down only 3 at the worst...and a stop would have pumped up the Offense to possibly drive down and score. We had been moving the ball on OSU pretty easily. But Hall busts thru the line and raced to the end zone on that play and just like that, BG was down 17-7. People can blame Craig Jarrett all they want for not coming up with the Magner flea flicker pass...and some foolishly still do. But that 4th down play was a knife in the heart.

We also had a false start inside the 10 ydl after Patton recovered the onside kick. BG trailed 24-14 and was looking to put up 7 more and really tighten the noose. But we were flagged and moved back 5 yards and had to settle for the FG and 24-17. IMO, if 3 plays go the other way, BG walks outta there with the win. And that makes it even worse.

Had BG scored to pull within one, there is no doubt in my mind Coach would have gone for 2 and the win...possibly a replay of the BiG NW win in 2001. Alas, it was not meant to be. I was heartbroken watching the players exit the locker room after that game. Many had tears in their eyes knowing a golden opportunity had eluded them....that was tough to see. But I was so damn proud of that team taking the #4 team and defending BCS Champs down to the wire on their turf. Those OSU fans were sh***ing green twinkies at the end.

Excellent points. I watched that replay of the fumble over and over for days. I agree, coach would have gone for two. Magner was so versatile, I think they would have been successful with the conversion.

hammb wrote:

2003: 11-3
2004: 9-3
2005: 6-5
2006: 4-8

That's a downfall, Freak.

I know you're a Brandon fan, and I can respect that, but this guy has flat out not gotten it done as head coach. I am still holding out hope that the AD will be able to can him after this season if things don't turn around drastically, but you're probably right that he'll get the '08 season to prove himself as well.


I have no doubt the guy will work his tail off, but my doubt lies in his ability. I could work my butt off to become a PGA golfer, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen; the natural ability is just not there. I wish Brandon the best, and I hope I'm wrong. I hope we come out and win 8-9 games this year and rebound as a program. I'm just not convinced that Brandon knows how to fix the problems this team has.

I respect your view, hammb. One thing to keep in mind is the youth, injuries and all the road games last year. 2005, we were one play away from playing in the MAC title game. And we lost Pope for half the season and Jacobs for almost 3 games. Those two stay healthy and that team is 8-3 at the worst. Meyer went 8-3 and 9-3 his two season. With the exception of 2006, I'd say Brandon has done as well as Meyer.

No matter what either of us thinks, we'll find out what we have the next season or two. Can Brandon get us back to the top? I think he can, you think he can't. One of us will be wrong and I hope to heck it isn't me.

GO BG

Falconfreak90 wrote: One of us will be wrong and I hope to heck it isn't me.

I do too. It'd be much easier for me to come on here and eat crow about my opinions than it would to go through the coach hiring/search phase and try to find the next Urban Meyer. Success would also come a lot sooner if Brandon proved to be a capable head coach, than have to watch 2 more years of struggles followed by the growing pains of a new regime.

This is a good football team. For the most paart , we weren't tghat bad last year...The Temple game turned on a couple...maybe three plays, the Akron and Miami games turned on single plays. We were a hair from being 7-5 last year. (of course, we were also close to losing a few that we won )

So far as developing talent goes, fopr every Winovich and Turner that don't develop like we think they should, there's a Dozier, Bullock or Barnes that come in here as unheralded guys and wind up all MAC caliber players. You can't just chery pick and point tot he kids that don't meet expectations and ignore the ones who exceed them.

Flipper wrote:This is a good football team. For the most paart , we weren't tghat bad last year...The Temple game turned on a couple...maybe three plays, the Akron and Miami games turned on single plays. We were a hair from being 7-5 last year. (of course, we were also close to losing a few that we won )

So far as developing talent goes, fopr every Winovich and Turner that don't develop like we think they should, there's a Dozier, Bullock or Barnes that come in here as unheralded guys and wind up all MAC caliber players. You can't just chery pick and point tot he kids that don't meet expectations and ignore the ones who exceed them.

True enough, but on the whole he has failed. You keep saying this team was so close to 7-5, but as you mention it was just as close to being 2-10. We went to triple OT against Buffalo & needed a minute INT to seal the deal against FIU. Those were 2 of the worst teams in college football last year...of course we also lost to one of the other worst teams...

In the grand scheme of things this team has not been nearly talented enough to win the MAC. That must be from one of 3 things:

A) We are not doing a good job of recruiting. We cannot land the kids we want.
B) We do not properly scout which kids can fit into our scheme and succeed here.
C) We do not properly develop the talent we recruit to reach their full potential.

My personal opinion that it is a combo of B & C, as I think Brandon has done a good job of getting talented kids into our system.


In the grand scheme of things this team has gotten worse each year since Brandon took over. We are clearly not talented enough to dominate the MAC, as we were when he got here. What's worse is that the overall quality of the MAC has gone down drastically since then, and we've still lost ground. If you want to argue that we're doing a good job recruiting the proper talent, and developing them, then why else are we getting worse on the field each year? Inept coaching? But I thought Brandon was doing a good job? I thought all of the coaches that left got promotions & fat raises to do so?


Look in college football, it all comes down to the HMFIC. That is Gregg Brandon. When he took over the program we were on the ups. We had been ranked in the top 25 the previous year and we had an offensive firepower that couldn't be matched. We were primed to beat some BCS teams, and dominate within our conference. Brandon carried that momentum for a year, taking us higher than Meyer did in his short stint. In '04 our offense was still outstanding and we continued to roll to another successful season. As time has gone on this team has continued to get worse than the previous iteration each year. Whether that be through poor recruiting, failiure to develop talent, or just plain ineptitude in the coaching department, I really don't care how you want to paint it. In the end the final results point to the job done by the head coach.

Thanks to an athletic department that's willing to give much more leeway than the rest of Division 1A he's getting another shot (and likely yet another in '08) to redeem himself. But as of right now I'd say he's been a failure as a head coach, despite the success he had in his first 2 years. In Boy Scouts we had a rule: Leave the Campsite in better shape than it was when you got there. You'd be lying to say that the BG football program is in better shape than it was when he got here. I don't have all the answers (or any of them, really), but it is painfully obvious from watching the digression of this program that SOMETHING has gone wrong.

I think you are really off base in your analysis on point B...we recruit kids that fit the system. They may not wind up at the postion they were labeled with on signing day, but I have yet to hear coach Brandon assert that any of those positions are set in stone. On the contrary, he usually goes out of his way to say this kid may wind up here or that kid might wind up there...that's part and parcel of the process. They don't recruit nealry as much by positon as they do attributes...you can scout all you want and look at game film all you want but until you actually get a kid out there and start working with him I don't you can really say if a DB is going to be a db or a WR or whatever. You'd be viewed as rigid and dogmatic by the intellgensia that follows Falcon football if you took the approach that locked people into given slots.

MACMAN wrote:

Rollo83 wrote:This Fall will be four years since BG went into OSU and lost a hard fought game to the Buckeyes 24-17.

We always hear how the Buckeyes send so many players to the NFL each year. But, look at the skill players on the field that day...

OSU
QB Scott McMullen (Krenzel sat out injured that game)
RB Lydell Ross
RB Maurice Hall
WR Michael Jenkins (Atlanta)
WR Drew Carter (Carolina)

BG
QB Josh Harris (Ravens, Browns, Giants)
RB PJ Pope (Bears, Packers)
WR Charles Sharon (Jaguars)
WR Steve Sanders (Browns)
'
Throw in BG lineman Scott Mruczkowski (Chargers) and Kory Lichtensteiger (2008?), back-up QB Omar Jacobs (Steelers, Eagles, Chiefs), and kicker Shaun Shuisham (Steelers, Cowboys, Redskins) and that team has been well represented in the NFL ranks.

I think we tend to forget how talented those Urban Meyer teams were back then. Yes, Brandon was the head coach that year but it was clearly built by Meyer. Part of Brandon's downfall has been his inability to replace the talent level of those teams.

Its interesting yet I would point out that and im not looking at any nfl websites right now, that all the OSU have NFL homes and the BGSU guys like pope released AUg 24th has no home, Harris is playing Arena football ( holding for kicks...far from starting QB) Sharron is doing well and Sander should be solid on the Browns, Omar is in Europe and with NFL Europe now defunct likely will not see an NFL field ( yes NFL Europe folded on AUG 3 see press release at end of this post. OSU while that game was awesome and those seasons great we must look at the reality that is, as long as the BCS monopoly is in charge of D1a you can rest easily that the lions share of quality skills NFl futures remain at BCS top schools and that BGSu will continue going to feel good bowls and that ESPN will continue to talk about the same schools as being the best in the nation all only because all conference champions do not have a fair and equal shot at a real National title.


Incoherent babbling. You sound like Miss Teen South Carolina you crazy U.S. American. Amazingly, I think I was able to decode the point you were trying to get across.