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Any thoughts? Toledo is obviously doing very well. Is it because of Beckman or some other reason? What was the scenario again when both were available and we hired Clawson?

I would not trade coaches for .......... Anything. Yes that's polite,right.
If coach B had our youth, injuries,and empty cupboards, there would be so many people under the proverbial bus it would Never move again.

Urban did well with someone else's good players. Beckman has that luxury a bit more than we have this year. But I'll keep our players And Coach Clawson, yes indeedy. We will be fine and when we are " back to full strength " we 'll see how we fare against the guy up north.

I know that Toledo's record looks pretty good right now, but I have watched Toledo play, and I don't think they are as good as their record suggests.

For example, Kent was really kicking their butts in the first half, but then laid over. It wasn't that Toledo got better. Their QB's passes were terrible, and their defense was not making tackles. Bottom line, Kent did everything they could to lose that game, and had officials helping.

I think Toledo has caught a lot of lucky breaks this year, and the luck will run out sooner or later.

always a falcon wrote:I would not trade coaches for .......... Anything. Yes that's polite,right.
If coach B had our youth, injuries,and empty cupboards, there would be so many people under the proverbial bus it would Never move again.

Urban did well with someone else's good players. Beckman has that luxury a bit more than we have this year. But I'll keep our players And Coach Clawson, yes indeedy. We will be fine and when we are " back to full strength " we 'll see how we fare against the guy up north.

We do have your youth and for injuries-well, we have plenty. Had to rely on our second string QB for three quarters today after our starter got hurt (again) on his first carry. Still, a lot of our record is due to playing in the MAC where just about everyone except maybe NIU is really bad. There's some parity but its BAD parity. Everybody is young and everybody has injuries- Temple is nothing like they would be with a completely healthy Pierce, we have a walkon punter placekicking and a second string walkon punter punting and two placekickers out for the year with injuries. The main reason for our relative success is, IMO, actually the coach- the emphasis on defense has totally turned around a unit that had little talent and no confidence. If our O-line got it together we might be a good MAC team. But please continue the hating....

always a falcon wrote:Urban did well with someone else's good players.

I have to take exception with that statement. We were coming off a 2-9 season and 5 straight losing seasons when Urban arrived and he went 8-3 and 9-3. Whatever your personal feelings are about him you can't deny that the guy can flat-out coach.

doughash wrote:

always a falcon wrote:Urban did well with someone else's good players.

I have to take exception with that statement. We were coming off a 2-9 season and 5 straight losing seasons when Urban arrived and he went 8-3 and 9-3. Whatever your personal feelings are about him you can't deny that the guy can flat-out coach.

I meant that truly as a compliment. We needed a coach who could make them winners and men. I am not an Urban hater by any stretch.

Toledo may have a good record in the MAC but when BG had its best years we would never get blown out by Arizona or Boise. We would hang tough like we did against Ohio State, Wisconsin, or Oklahoma. They were crushed against the top teams which makes the MAC look bad if they are our best team.

always a falcon wrote:

doughash wrote:

always a falcon wrote:Urban did well with someone else's good players.

I have to take exception with that statement. We were coming off a 2-9 season and 5 straight losing seasons when Urban arrived and he went 8-3 and 9-3. Whatever your personal feelings are about him you can't deny that the guy can flat-out coach.

I meant that truly as a compliment. We needed a coach who could make them winners and men. I am not an Urban hater by any stretch.

OK I think I understand where you're coming. Not an Urban hater here either. He definitely got some things out of them that Coach Blackney was unable to.

mmisbg wrote:I know that Toledo's record looks pretty good right now, but I have watched Toledo play, and I don't think they are as good as their record suggests.

For example, Kent was really kicking their butts in the first half, but then laid over. It wasn't that Toledo got better. Their QB's passes were terrible, and their defense was not making tackles. Bottom line, Kent did everything they could to lose that game, and had officials helping.

I think Toledo has caught a lot of lucky breaks this year, and the luck will run out sooner or later.

Not as good as their record, what does that mean? I want my team to play good enough to win. Toledo has been able to execute when it mattered the most, and BG has not. I'm happy about the win today, and I hope it builds confidence.

As far as the teams go, I think UT had a little bit better talent left over from the previous regime. Wait til year 4 of both coaches to see who truly was the better choice.

always a falcon wrote:

doughash wrote:

always a falcon wrote:Urban did well with someone else's good players.

I have to take exception with that statement. We were coming off a 2-9 season and 5 straight losing seasons when Urban arrived and he went 8-3 and 9-3. Whatever your personal feelings are about him you can't deny that the guy can flat-out coach.

I meant that truly as a compliment. We needed a coach who could make them winners and men. I am not an Urban hater by any stretch.

"Winners and men"?

daspollak wrote:

mmisbg wrote:I know that Toledo's record looks pretty good right now, but I have watched Toledo play, and I don't think they are as good as their record suggests.

For example, Kent was really kicking their butts in the first half, but then laid over. It wasn't that Toledo got better. Their QB's passes were terrible, and their defense was not making tackles. Bottom line, Kent did everything they could to lose that game, and had officials helping.

I think Toledo has caught a lot of lucky breaks this year, and the luck will run out sooner or later.

Not as good as their record, what does that mean? I want my team to play good enough to win. Toledo has been able to execute when it mattered the most, and BG has not. I'm happy about the win today, and I hope it builds confidence.

As far as the teams go, I think UT had a little bit better talent left over from the previous regime. Wait til year 4 of both coaches to see who truly was the better choice.

Was it a choice? I dont remember.

Globetrotter wrote:Was it a choice? I dont remember.

No, it was not. Because Toledo had announced during the 2008 season that Amstutz would be stepping down at the end of the year, they were a few weeks/months ahead of us in their search. I don't remember the exact date of Beckman's hiring, but UT was in the final stages of their hiring process when Brandon was let go by BG. He (Beckman) was never an option for the BGSU job.

When Brandon was let go it was either on ESPN or the Blade that had Beckman on a list of candidates to replace Brandon. Instead of arguing I will rephrase my statement. Give it 4 years to see who was the better pick.

daspollak wrote:Not as good as their record, what does that mean?

It means exactly what it says. Toledo may have had a few games where they have looked good, but they have played a LOT of sloppy football. Sloppy enough that I have a hard time classifying as good execution. You have to credit at least some of their wins to playing the right teams on the right days, and having help from officials.

This is the bottom line for me is this:

The times I have seen Toledo play since Beckman took over, something has been very familiar to me. They look like a Gregg Brandon coached football team. Given that, why would we want to replace Gregg Brandon with Gregg Brandon 2.0?

I would have taken Beckman then, and I would take him now. He has done a very good job of getting people somewhat excited about Toledo football. This years Toledo team may be winning some games they shouldn't, but that is good coaching. Bottom line, the biggest thing is who will bring in better recruits? I would give the edge to Beckman and his staff. They have more experience recruiting IA players, and will likely continue to bring in better classes.