Toledo vs FIU hook-n-ladder OB call - question

[Siborg]

Toledo vs FIU last night, hook and ladder play. I have a rules question. I'm not trying to stir the pot, I just want to know.

The FIU player's foot was in, or lets assume so, about a yard short of the first down marker. His momentum carried him out of bounds. My question is this. Do they mark the ball at the last point any part of his body crossed the OB or is the ball's postion? He did try to kick his left out but clearly the ball was nowhere near the first down marker.

I assume the officials ruled the former and thought his left foot crossed the first down marker. In my opinion it did not and certainly not by a half a foot. If it was supposed to be ball position, then Toledo was screwed. If it was any part of the body, then I can at least understand they were not certain although still a bad call ( IMO ).

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[Rightupinthere]

It's called the hook and lateral. It's a hook pass route with a lateral to a streaking receiver.

"Hook and ladder" refers to fire fighting truck.

The right call was made by the officials in my opinion.

[Rollo83]

No, it IS called the "Hook and Ladder."

http://football.about.com/cs/football10 ... dladde.htm

[h2oville rocket]

It's called the hook and lateral. It's a hook pass route with a lateral to a streaking receiver.

"Hook and ladder" refers to fire fighting truck.

The right call was made by the officials in my opinion.

I have no idea if the call was right but I will say that in this case the receiver was fully clothed and I'm not aware of any instances of games (other than that wonderful powder-puff game at Steubenville in 1994) where a lateral was actually thrown to a streaking receiver!

[h2oville rocket]

Yeah, I never heard of it being called a hook and lateral until today- the guys on TV definitely said "hook and ladder" which makes me think "hook and lateral" is probably right.

[factman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_and_lateral

[Siborg]

duh, I'm glad I can still laugh at myself. I'd like to say I knew I knew it was lateral but I doubt anyone would believe me at this point. Oh well.

I thought it was supposed to be ball position and I thought the ball clearly did not get close to the first down marker. Thus my question regarding the rule.

[kdog27]

Oops... Post deleted.

It kind of like cardsharp and card shark

[Rightupinthere]

No, it IS called the "Hook and Ladder."

http://football.about.com/cs/football10 ... dladde.htm

Very wrong and citing about.com is as bad if not worse than Wikipedia.

[clinky the humorous linky.]

Hook and LATERAL

[Rollo83]

No, it IS called the "Hook and Ladder."

http://football.about.com/cs/football10 ... dladde.htm

Very wrong and citing about.com is as bad if not worse than Wikipedia.

[clinky the humorous linky.]

Hook and LATERAL

OK. This from the Florida International University official athletic site...

"When it looked like Toledo had tied the contest with 1:14 to play, the Rockets elected to go for two and were successful, giving them a 32-31. With less than a minute to go, FIU faced a fourth-and-17 situation and was able to pick it up with a hook-and-ladder play to T.Y. Hilton. Three plays later, sophomore kicker Jack Griffin sent the ball through the uprights as time expired to give FIU the victory."

I've been watching football for 40+ years and I've only heard it referred to as a hook-and-ladder. It looks like both are acceptable.


[clinky the irony linky.]

[Rightupinthere]

No, it IS called the "Hook and Ladder."

http://football.about.com/cs/football10 ... dladde.htm

Very wrong and citing about.com is as bad if not worse than Wikipedia.

[clinky the humorous linky.]

Hook and LATERAL

OK. This from the Florida International University official athletic site...

"When it looked like Toledo had tied the contest with 1:14 to play, the Rockets elected to go for two and were successful, giving them a 32-31. With less than a minute to go, FIU faced a fourth-and-17 situation and was able to pick it up with a hook-and-ladder play to T.Y. Hilton. Three plays later, sophomore kicker Jack Griffin sent the ball through the uprights as time expired to give FIU the victory."

I've been watching football for 40+ years and I've only heard it referred to as a hook-and-ladder. It looks like both are acceptable.


[clinky the irony linky.]

Both terms are acceptable, I suppose, but only one [lateral] is truly correct. Thanks for the debate.

[Redwingtom]

The way I read the rules, it's the forward most point of the ball when the player last crosses the sideline. He is deemed to have crossed the sideline when a body part touches anything out of bounds except a player or an official.

Or if he is airborne, it's the spot of the ball when he crosses the sideline.

Simply holding a ball over the plane of the sideline does not stop the play or forward progress until he touches something out of bounds, assuming he is not airborne.

[h2oville rocket]

The play has been debated endlessly here, on our board and on the NCAAbbs and there is no agreement about much of anything- says something about how difficult a job officials have. Even with review its tough, but to make that call on the field-wow. I'm always amazed at the ability of(yes, even MAC) officials to make the right call on bang-bang plays.

[MarkL]

Random pointless trivia: I've heard before that the first time this play was called was in a police vs. firefighters charity football game. Firefighters ran the play, hence it was known as the hook and ladder, in reference to a firetruck. Hook and lateral is more accurate to how the play works, but hook and ladder may be what it was first called by the firemen who first executed it.

[h2oville rocket]

I heard it originated in a charity game between bankers and accountants- and it was run first by the bankers and who called it the book and collateral (because the first receiver had to be open like a book and have a backup to pitch the ball to). Then the local firemen picked it up and changed it. Finally, an actual football team decided to try it and it became the hook and lateral.