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Now, before you hit the reply button and tell me that you don't want to hear about the Blackeyes, hear me out. This pertains DIRECTLY to us.

I have been thinking about how antiquated the Big 10 champion system has become as many conferences are moving to divisional/championship game play. Currently, the Big 10 has 11 teams in it (go figure!) and it would be impossible for them to move to divisional play with their current members even if they wanted to.

I think that there may very well come a time in the next 5-10 years when the Big 10 will either willingly or having been forced, move to a divisional setup. Now, there are two or three ways that they could do this:

1. Drop a team like Indiana and have two 5 team divisions.

2. Add one team and have two 6 team divisions (but this would lead to unending jabs about being Big-12 wannabes).

3. Add three teams and have a MAC-like 2 division, 14 team setup.

The first option I think is highly unlikely as there is too much of an establishment within the Big 10. The second option is probably the most feasible, but like I said, oh how the Big 12 and the media would have a field day with them. The third option would be a bit more drastic, and they may be hard-pressed to find three uncommitted (to a "major" conference) teams in the country. Still, I do believe that either option 2 or three will have to be resorted to.

I have thought this over for a while, and the two top candidates for Big Ten addition given geography and regional continuity would be either Miami or Bowling Green. Last year I would have said that either Louisville or Cincinnati, but they are moving on to the BCS pastures of the Big East and are likely out of the running (unless the Big East completely falls on their face, which isn't out of the question at this point). If Solich can turn around OU, they may also be an option, but given OSU's ego and their history with OU, they would probably fight that tooth and nail. OU doesn't have as consistent of a winning tradition as Miami and Bowling Green, either (I know, we're both coming out of a lull, yadda yadda yadda).

So, what I am wondering is what everyone else thinks of this scenario, and of Bowling Green or Miami entering a conference like the Big 10. I guess what prompted this now was someone posting what Paul Krebs said on the radio today about there being quite a few teams in the MAC that are not willing to make the necessary commitment to success.

It would be a shame to lose the momentum that we have built up over the past four years by foolishly standing by schools like Ball State and Eastern. Those were two of the primary schools that Krebs was allegedly referring to, I'm sure. I do also realize that many of you are going to jump up and scream that we don't have Big 10-type facilities, but that is coming. Anderson will either be renovated or rebuilt in 5-7 years and the SAC will be able to compete with anyone in the country (believe me, I've seen the drawings -- its amazing). If the Big 10 were to demand that we add capacity to the Doyt, that is relatively easy. It wouldn't take much to finish off the south end and we can always add upper-deck seating on one, or both sides (after all, it was built just for that kind of expansion).

Competativeness is also an issue, but by the time we build the SAC, believe me, we will be out-recruiting everyone in the conference. Most of you I would guess have no idea just how big this thing is going to be for us. And, with updated and expanded facilities, Anderson and the Doyt will shortly not be as outdated as they currently are. It may take a few years for us to build that talent-base required to stay competative in Big 10 basketball and football, but it would not take that long, and as it currently stands and will in the near future, we are and will be among the elite mid-majors in the region.

You have to think about this from a Big 10 perspective, too. If they do add a school(s), they are going to want to maintain their geographic stability. They are not going to go the Big East or C-USA's direction and add schools that are hundreds of miles from their nearest opponent. They are going to look within their own region for schools to add if they do so. So, hear are the candidates that might possibly be looking for a step-up from the states that the Big 10 already occupies:

Eastern, Western and Central Michigan
Ball State
Toledo
Northern Illinois
Bowling Green
Miami
Ohio
Kent
Akron
Notre Dame (unlikely, though)

I have left out any Pennsylvania schools for now because that really is more Big East /ACC territory despite PSU's presence. Of the teams on this list (and yes, excepting ND, they are all MAC teams for reasons I'm sure you can guess), in my opinion, Bowling Green and Miami are the only two schools that would be given serious consideration. NIU and Toledo may get outside consideration, but I would fall over dead if there were ever a directional school added to a major conference. Toledo does not have the infrastructure outside of their stadium at this point to support major programs (indoor practice facilities, hello?). So, because of both competativeness and the Big 10 ego machine, I believe BG and Miami are the leading candidates for expansion.

I'm really not sure how I would feel about BG being in the Big 10 (because I hate it), but I do not question that we are reaching a point in time when we need to start thinking about looking for better competition lest we be stuck forever in a four years on, 8 years off cycle like most mid-majors. Currently we are breaking that cycle and we should continue to strive to do so. Also, there is no other "major" conference that I see us fitting in simply from a geographic standpoint.

Therefore, I believe that this is a serious discussion that we should have, especially when our AD is being sought after by the Big 10. That doesn't necessarily correlate, I know, but its creating a connection in my mind. So, please let me know what you think of my assessment and let me know what you think.

And, DISCUSS!

ive got an idea... get rid of conferences

I also forgot to add, the first person to say that we won't be able to draw crowds satisfactory in Big 10 eyes gets a virtual smack in the nose. If you can seriously tell me that you think we would have a hard time drawing huge crowds with home games against OSU, Michigan, Wiconsin, Northwestern, etc., I will eat your shoe (or maybe you should!).

All in jest, of course, but I don't see this being an issue worth bickering over.

mk455 wrote:ive got an idea... get rid of conferences

I would be happy if they got rid of the BCS label of conferences.

Come on, guys. I put a lot of time into this. Can we at least PRETEND to take me seriously? Pretty please?

Bleeding Orange wrote:Come on, guys. I put a lot of time into this. Can we at least PRETEND to take me seriously? Pretty please?

I like the last option you have about having the Big Ten with 14 teams. However, I just don't see it happening. They take enough crap for having 11 teams as it is now. I wouldn't be suprised if they let one of the Big Ten teams go in the future and get it back to 10.

You mentioned in the 2nd option about dropping a team like Indiana. You have to look at the B!G picture (I had to do it!) and not just football. Indiana has a national known basektball program and the Big Ten I'm sure is glad they are in their conference. Other Indiana sports I'm sure do alright as well. If you are just talking in football, then disregard all of the Indiana talk. But yeah...the most logical would definitely be option 3 but I just don't see it happening.

Sure, bleeding. You DID put a lot of time into it and its food for thought.

My response would be that I think the Big 10(11) would be more likely to expand (slightly) its geographic bearing rather than add a MAC team to the fold. I just don't see that happening. We can win all the games we want against them, they just don't think we're their equals.

Furthermore, the Big 10 universities are major universities. There are not many schools in the MAC that can meet that charge. We're just not that upwardly mobile, and I think Big 10 purists would go ape if MAC schools were put into the conference. Isn't it far more likely that the major conferences will petition the NCAA to loosen up the rules for having a league championship game?

The Big 10 did spread its wings when it added Penn State, but my opinion (which you sought) is that the Big 10 would rather not have a playoff than cheapen its product with expansion. In fact, I don't think they would have taken Louisville, either. It just doesn't fit. Louisville is a mid-major, while PSU was a powerhouse when they came to the Big 10.

Notwithstanding what Paul Krebs said, I don't see the MAC jettisoning anybody, and I don't see big changes. Last year, we went around and around on this, and I was pretty scornful of Memphis coming into the MAC. I've softened a little on that, but I still don't see major changes. Everybody can't compete in every conference...someone has to win and someone has to lose. That being said, the losers in the league could be a lot stronger.

Finally, the momentum we are building on includes zero MAC championships since 1992. We have to win here before we talk about moving up.

Bleeding Orange - just became my favorite poster! I like the fact that you are thinking like this and are looking BiG. Love it!

I dream about BG being in the Big Eleven. I think over time we could build an excellent program within in it. BG could be the darling school in a great rural location.

I don't see it ever happening. It would be a direct impact on the recruiting of Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Indiana. 4 Votes against.

I always thought the Big Eleven had Syracuse, Notre Dame and Louisville on their radar? They would love that east coast exposure with Syracuse. Not to mention great basketball from those schools. We don't have basketball that can even come close to Big Eleven play. We do have hockey though. A big ten hockey league sounds good to me.

For now I will just enjoy the dream with you. Fun post!

Bleeding Orange wrote:Now, before you hit the reply button and tell me that you don't want to hear about the Blackeyes, hear me out. This pertains DIRECTLY to us.

I have been thinking about how antiquated the Big 10 champion system has become as many conferences are moving to divisional/championship game play. Currently, the Big 10 has 11 teams in it (go figure!) and it would be impossible for them to move to divisional play with their current members even if they wanted to.

I think that there may very well come a time in the next 5-10 years when the Big 10 will either willingly or having been forced, move to a divisional setup. Now, there are two or three ways that they could do this:

1. Drop a team like Indiana and have two 5 team divisions.

2. Add one team and have two 6 team divisions (but this would lead to unending jabs about being Big-12 wannabes).

3. Add three teams and have a MAC-like 2 division, 14 team setup.

The first option I think is highly unlikely as there is too much of an establishment within the Big 10. The second option is probably the most feasible, but like I said, oh how the Big 12 and the media would have a field day with them. The third option would be a bit more drastic, and they may be hard-pressed to find three uncommitted (to a "major" conference) teams in the country. Still, I do believe that either option 2 or three will have to be resorted to.

I have thought this over for a while, and the two top candidates for Big Ten addition given geography and regional continuity would be either Miami or Bowling Green. Last year I would have said that either Louisville or Cincinnati, but they are moving on to the BCS pastures of the Big East and are likely out of the running (unless the Big East completely falls on their face, which isn't out of the question at this point). If Solich can turn around OU, they may also be an option, but given OSU's ego and their history with OU, they would probably fight that tooth and nail. OU doesn't have as consistent of a winning tradition as Miami and Bowling Green, either (I know, we're both coming out of a lull, yadda yadda yadda).

So, what I am wondering is what everyone else thinks of this scenario, and of Bowling Green or Miami entering a conference like the Big 10. I guess what prompted this now was someone posting what Paul Krebs said on the radio today about there being quite a few teams in the MAC that are not willing to make the necessary commitment to success.

It would be a shame to lose the momentum that we have built up over the past four years by foolishly standing by schools like Ball State and Eastern. Those were two of the primary schools that Krebs was allegedly referring to, I'm sure. I do also realize that many of you are going to jump up and scream that we don't have Big 10-type facilities, but that is coming. Anderson will either be renovated or rebuilt in 5-7 years and the SAC will be able to compete with anyone in the country (believe me, I've seen the drawings -- its amazing). If the Big 10 were to demand that we add capacity to the Doyt, that is relatively easy. It wouldn't take much to finish off the south end and we can always add upper-deck seating on one, or both sides (after all, it was built just for that kind of expansion).

Competativeness is also an issue, but by the time we build the SAC, believe me, we will be out-recruiting everyone in the conference. Most of you I would guess have no idea just how big this thing is going to be for us. And, with updated and expanded facilities, Anderson and the Doyt will shortly not be as outdated as they currently are. It may take a few years for us to build that talent-base required to stay competative in Big 10 basketball and football, but it would not take that long, and as it currently stands and will in the near future, we are and will be among the elite mid-majors in the region.

You have to think about this from a Big 10 perspective, too. If they do add a school(s), they are going to want to maintain their geographic stability. They are not going to go the Big East or C-USA's direction and add schools that are hundreds of miles from their nearest opponent. They are going to look within their own region for schools to add if they do so. So, hear are the candidates that might possibly be looking for a step-up from the states that the Big 10 already occupies:

Eastern, Western and Central Michigan
Ball State
Toledo
Northern Illinois
Bowling Green
Miami
Ohio
Kent
Akron
Notre Dame (unlikely, though)

I have left out any Pennsylvania schools for now because that really is more Big East /ACC territory despite PSU's presence. Of the teams on this list (and yes, excepting ND, they are all MAC teams for reasons I'm sure you can guess), in my opinion, Bowling Green and Miami are the only two schools that would be given serious consideration. NIU and Toledo may get outside consideration, but I would fall over dead if there were ever a directional school added to a major conference. Toledo does not have the infrastructure outside of their stadium at this point to support major programs (indoor practice facilities, hello?). So, because of both competativeness and the Big 10 ego machine, I believe BG and Miami are the leading candidates for expansion.

I'm really not sure how I would feel about BG being in the Big 10 (because I hate it), but I do not question that we are reaching a point in time when we need to start thinking about looking for better competition lest we be stuck forever in a four years on, 8 years off cycle like most mid-majors. Currently we are breaking that cycle and we should continue to strive to do so. Also, there is no other "major" conference that I see us fitting in simply from a geographic standpoint.

Therefore, I believe that this is a serious discussion that we should have, especially when our AD is being sought after by the Big 10. That doesn't necessarily correlate, I know, but its creating a connection in my mind. So, please let me know what you think of my assessment and let me know what you think.

And, DISCUSS!

Here is my first problem with this. You have to look beyond football. Could BG compete in other sports? Schools like PSU and UofM have traditions of being national contenders and champions in many sports. BGSU has no such claim in men's or women's sports. Take away football and basketball and we would would be the laughing stock of ton of sports for years to come in the Big Ten. Hell our soccer team did not win a game last season. Maybe we could catch up eventually but it would be a tough climb.

Additionally, I do not see the Big 10 dropping any of their current teams. Just because IU sucks in football does not mean they are not good for the conference in other sports. Same goes for all of those teams.

As for a championship I believe you are right the b10 already wants to have a championship. They have shown interest in getting ND for some time now.

And the most important thing would be, Does the Big Ten want us? Probably not

McMetz811 wrote:

Bleeding Orange wrote:Come on, guys. I put a lot of time into this. Can we at least PRETEND to take me seriously? Pretty please?

I like the last option you have about having the Big Ten with 14 teams. However, I just don't see it happening. They take enough crap for having 11 teams as it is now. I wouldn't be suprised if they let one of the Big Ten teams go in the future and get it back to 10.

You mentioned in the 2nd option about dropping a team like Indiana. You have to look at the B!G picture (I had to do it!) and not just football. Indiana has a national known basektball program and the Big Ten I'm sure is glad they are in their conference. Other Indiana sports I'm sure do alright as well. If you are just talking in football, then disregard all of the Indiana talk. But yeah...the most logical would definitely be option 3 but I just don't see it happening.

Which is why I said that dropping a team like Indiana is the most improbable of all options. Really, unlike the Big 12 or the MAC, there are no teams that are bottom feeders across the board in the Big 10. Every school has at least one strength. It would be impossible to pick one to cut. I do suppose that I should have mentioned that I was talking about all sports, not just football, though (I posted this here, though, because football would be our biggest impetus for a move.). Maybe I should throw this up in the hoops forum, as well.

Also, I am of the opinion that the Big 10 takes crap for having eleven teams not because they have too many teams, but because they insist upon still calling themselves that Big TEN. I just don't think that given the setup of most other conferences 11 teams is viewed by anyone as too much.

orangeandbrown wrote:
The Big 10 did spread its wings when it added Penn State, but my opinion (which you sought) is that the Big 10 would rather not have a playoff than cheapen its product with expansion. In fact, I don't think they would have taken Louisville, either. It just doesn't fit. Louisville is a mid-major, while PSU was a powerhouse when they came to the Big 10.

This is exactly my point. PSU may not be a powerhosue in FB anymore but they still put 108k in thier stadiums. And PSU is a powerhouse in more sports than BG could ever imagine.

The only school I see joining the Big 10 is ND, but before that can happen, NBC will have to not renew its contract with the school. At that time, from a financial basis, they will have to join the Big 10 to pull in anywhere near what they are accustomed in football revenue.

I really doubt any team would be dumped from the Big 10, but even if they did....they could not have a conference championship game. You need to have two divisions of at least six teams by NCAA regulations. The ACC tried to get a waiver for this season before BC joined, but were denied. Starting in 2005, they will have a North vs South championship game.

I must say that, right or wrong, I am shocked by the negativity that this post has recieved initially. The conception that you all seem to have of Bowling Green is a little sad, in my opinion. Academically we are one of the best schools in the state, if not the best at this point (size notwithstanding). We have been on an upward trend in most areas since 1995. We are gaining national respect for a lot, not just our football program (which doesn't hurt, either).

I was hoping that we could have a semi-controlled and serious discussion about this, but it seems that none of you so far are even willing to consider it.

What in the hell do we compete for if we aren't in it to improve? Jeez...

Bleeding Orange wrote:I must say that, right or wrong, I am shocked by the negativity that this post has recieved initially. The conception that you all seem to have of Bowling Green is a little sad, in my opinion. Academically we are one of the best schools in the state, if not the best at this point (size notwithstanding). We have been on an upward trend in most areas since 1995. We are gaining national respect for a lot, not just our football program (which doesn't hurt, either).

I was hoping that we could have a semi-controlled and serious discussion about this, but it seems that none of you so far are even willing to consider it.

What in the hell do we compete for if we aren't in it to improve? Jeez...

I think we are responding to this post realistically. Tell me how well you think BGSU's soccer, track, XC, basketball, tennis, volleyball etc would do in men's and women's sports in the big ten?

They would improve along with everything else. Yes, it may take longer in these sports, but they are non-revenue sports and the demand to be competative quickly would surely not be as great as it would be for football and basketball, and we already have a leg up in those sports.

Go ask the players on the non-revenue teams how they would feel about the opportunity to compete against Big 10 competition on a regular basis. Seriously.