Concerns to Watch

[roguewarrior]

I have reported my opinion that many strides have and remain taking place from recruiting, organization, discipline, attention to detail, training, nutrition, off field growth, etc. I am on record as cautious about the X’s and O’s and game management, mostly offensive.

It appeared that the offense was being tweaked to a faster tempo, in off season changes. New play caller. Less TE’s on the field. Lately; however, the scheme remains heavy with long, complicated WR routes, like some Pro offenses. (VS spread out, 4 wides bang, bang slants bubbles etc, like Kent). Easy throws. Easy blocks. Easy catches.

What happens, despite improved players, is the same results: long developing routes turn into sacks, bad throws and missed opportunities in practice. In games, We might see 5 sacks, and react “our o-line sucks”…. We might see picks and say “ the QB sucks”…. Or the WR’s can’t get open….

We need to watch the scheme and play calling closely as it unfolds this year…. Because the talent is there to have success. Not win a bowl game, but get 3-4 wins and compete. I am fearful that the scheme and a stubborn marriage to it, will put our young talented players in a position of failure? Hopefully….. this is just camp exposure to a deep playbook, that won’t see the game field…..?? We will see soon.

[Flipper]

Seems odd that an extremely young team coming off a zero win season would try to install an offense like that. Hell...it can and usually does take WR's a year or two to absorb NFL offenses after coming out of college. Wasn't a fn of Malone being the OC...would have preferred someone a little more...current.

[roguewarrior]

It’s not really new (which was/remains the hope) , just same one that may not work….unless….. you have the Hogs up front and Mahomes at QB. The wides are doing it much better, but hard for any line to hold the blocks, and give a QB time to make a complex read and throw.

I fear it may lead to unnecessary failure, frustration, everything that goes with it…. We won’t know until game days. Staying optimistic.

[hammb]

Seems odd that an extremely young team coming off a zero win season would try to install an offense like that. Hell...it can and usually does take WR's a year or two to absorb NFL offenses after coming out of college. Wasn't a fn of Malone being the OC...would have preferred someone a little more...current.

Bingo.

It's been my contention with this coaching all along. They pay lip service to the right things. They may know how to recruit & build a program (time will tell). But I have zero confidence in this group to actually design and implement a viable collegiate/MAC offense in the year 2021.

It's especially painful since the bulk of our successful years over the past 20 years have been on the backs of running cutting edge offenses (Urban, Brandon, Babers). Only Clawson has tasted any success here while running ancient offensive schemes, and it wasn't until he built the most talented roster in the MAC that they were finally able to achieve success.

Running long developing routes with a questionable OL is a death sentence. Requiring WRs to make reads on the fly in a college offense is a death sentence. Expecting your inexperienced WRs & QB combo to be on the same page for those types of routes is a death sentence. Hell there is a reason why NFL teams are incorporating collegiate passing concepts, not the other way around. This game is about speed, getting playmakers in space, and getting the ball out of the QB's hands QUICKLY, using motions to help the QB see things pre-snap, etc. We shouldn't be running 5 & 7 step drops out of 11/12 personnel in the MAC; it's just not a recipe for success.

[hammb]

... you have the Hogs up front and Mahomes at QB. ...

And the truth is that one of the big reasons that Mahomes is Mahomes is that they don't ask him to drop back from center and make complex reads very frequently. They run 11 personnel as much as anybody in the NFL. They are among the league leaders in pre-snap motion (makes reads easier for QB) percentage. They are among the league leaders in play action percentage (makes throws easier).

They have the absolute perfect QB in terms of accuracy, athleticism, arm talent, and leadership. And STILL they are cutting edge in doing all of the things to make the position EASIER for him.

[jpfalcon09]

I have reported my opinion that many strides have and remain taking place from recruiting, organization, discipline, attention to detail, training, nutrition, off field growth, etc. I am on record as cautious about the X’s and O’s and game management, mostly offensive.

It appeared that the offense was being tweaked to a faster tempo, in off season changes. New play caller. Less TE’s on the field. Lately; however, the scheme remains heavy with long, complicated WR routes, like some Pro offenses. (VS spread out, 4 wides bang, bang slants bubbles etc, like Kent). Easy throws. Easy blocks. Easy catches.

What happens, despite improved players, is the same results: long developing routes turn into sacks, bad throws and missed opportunities in practice. In games, We might see 5 sacks, and react “our o-line sucks”…. We might see picks and say “ the QB sucks”…. Or the WR’s can’t get open….

We need to watch the scheme and play calling closely as it unfolds this year…. Because the talent is there to have success. Not win a bowl game, but get 3-4 wins and compete. I am fearful that the scheme and a stubborn marriage to it, will put our young talented players in a position of failure? Hopefully….. this is just camp exposure to a deep playbook, that won’t see the game field…..?? We will see soon.

I'm hopeful they have a scrimmage for season ticket holders to attend so some of us can get a preview of how things look.

This is my bone of contention (outside of hiring BVG which everyone knew was a mistake) is that the coaching staff is basically putting some kids in a position to fail by over-complicating things. Like you rogue, there is plenty to feel good about regarding the program today compared to where it was only three short years ago. But that's only part of the equation. There needs to be successful and productive schemes in place that fit the mold of the team, which is youth and inexperience.

I guess I'll wait with bated breath to see how things turn out, but this isn't exciting news to hear three weeks before kickoff.

Also the roster is out and there's a John Madden on the team. BOOM!

[roguewarrior]

Season ticket holder scrimmage is this Saturday 8/14.

Second scrimmage, no attendance is 8/21.

[jpfalcon09]

Season ticket holder scrimmage is this Saturday 8/14.

Second scrimmage, no attendance is 8/21.

Do you know if there's a place to sign-up for the scrimmage this Saturday? Time?

[roguewarrior]

Season ticket holder scrimmage is this Saturday 8/14.

Second scrimmage, no attendance is 8/21.

Do you know if there's a place to sign-up for the scrimmage this Saturday? Time?

I am not a season ticket holder, as I get them from the team. My sister said they were emailed a while back to reserve a spot. And deadline to reserve was 8/4. Had practice access and lunch/speakers at Stroh afterward. Maybe call ticket office and try??

[roguewarrior]

Seems odd that an extremely young team coming off a zero win season would try to install an offense like that. Hell...it can and usually does take WR's a year or two to absorb NFL offenses after coming out of college. Wasn't a fn of Malone being the OC...would have preferred someone a little more...current.

Bingo.

It's been my contention with this coaching all along. They pay lip service to the right things. They may know how to recruit & build a program (time will tell). But I have zero confidence in this group to actually design and implement a viable collegiate/MAC offense in the year 2021.

It's especially painful since the bulk of our successful years over the past 20 years have been on the backs of running cutting edge offenses (Urban, Brandon, Babers). Only Clawson has tasted any success here while running ancient offensive schemes, and it wasn't until he built the most talented roster in the MAC that they were finally able to achieve success.

Running long developing routes with a questionable OL is a death sentence. Requiring WRs to make reads on the fly in a college offense is a death sentence. Expecting your inexperienced WRs & QB combo to be on the same page for those types of routes is a death sentence. Hell there is a reason why NFL teams are incorporating collegiate passing concepts, not the other way around. This game is about speed, getting playmakers in space, and getting the ball out of the QB's hands QUICKLY, using motions to help the QB see things pre-snap, etc. We shouldn't be running 5 & 7 step drops out of 11/12 personnel in the MAC; it's just not a recipe for success.

I have to agree with everything here. Two big lumbering tights is so limiting. Very 1985. God I hope these installs are for a back burner……

[MarkL]

I had figured Malone as OC could be a bit like when DeBord took over at Tennessee as OC. One of my Tennessee coworkers at the time asked my thoughts on that and I referred to him as Mike DeBoring. His offenses at Michigan were basically the same few plays just out of different formations.

Wrong I was. The Tennessee offense was fast, and explosive in 2015. I am hoping for similar with another Lloyd Carr assistant here, that time brings some evolution. So we will see.

[jpfalcon09]

Season ticket holder scrimmage is this Saturday 8/14.

Second scrimmage, no attendance is 8/21.

Do you know if there's a place to sign-up for the scrimmage this Saturday? Time?

I am not a season ticket holder, as I get them from the team. My sister said they were emailed a while back to reserve a spot. And deadline to reserve was 8/4. Had practice access and lunch/speakers at Stroh afterward. Maybe call ticket office and try??

All good. I talked to them this afternoon. Excited to see some live football this weekend, even if it is a scrimmage.

[kdog27]

This has been my main issue with this staff. They say the right things and act like they want to do it all the right way but do it with a 1992 offense. I have a hard time seeing BG being successful in any offense that was fading away 20 years ago. Don’t have the talent or strength to win this way.

[MarkL]

I have a hard time seeing BG being successful in any offense that was fading away 20 years ago. Don’t have the talent or strength to win this way.

If the offense is effectively a retread of the Lloyd Carr Michigan teams, the offense works great ... if there is superior talent and execution. With time we may have both, time will tell, but right now it seems like the offense will spend time in neutral.
Urban Meyer brought attitude and discipline. And he also brought a new and innovative offense. That led the surge. Similarly at Purdue, Joe Tiller brought "basketball on grass", which allowed Purdue to win tons of games with less talented teams. Until the Big Ten caught up to the spread offense, and then Purdue ran basically the same offense as everyone, and with inferior talent. No surprise that Purdue tanked come about 2005 when the spread became common enough in the Big Ten and not just the gimmicky offense at Purdue.

[hammb]

I have a hard time seeing BG being successful in any offense that was fading away 20 years ago. Don’t have the talent or strength to win this way.

If the offense is effectively a retread of the Lloyd Carr Michigan teams, the offense works great ... if there is superior talent and execution. With time we may have both, time will tell, but right now it seems like the offense will spend time in neutral.
Urban Meyer brought attitude and discipline. And he also brought a new and innovative offense. That led the surge. Similarly at Purdue, Joe Tiller brought "basketball on grass", which allowed Purdue to win tons of games with less talented teams. Until the Big Ten caught up to the spread offense, and then Purdue ran basically the same offense as everyone, and with inferior talent. No surprise that Purdue tanked come about 2005 when the spread became common enough in the Big Ten and not just the gimmicky offense at Purdue.

Exactly.

As I mentioned earlier, Clawson's offenses were very old school in many ways. There were people ready to run him out of town before that team finally broke out. When they DID break out it wasn't until he had built the most talented roster in the MAC, and even then his teams still struggled to A) beat the other top teams in the MAC, and B) had very little real OOC success. In fact, I'd have to look back, but I think Clawson might be the only successful BG coach over the past 30 years that didn't win a single OOC/Bowl game against a Power conference team.

Sure, we can be successful running an ancient scheme. But doing so requires you to have more talent and better execution than your opposition. Both goals are difficult to achieve, and you're just putting yourself at a distinct disadvantage for no reason.


Just looking real quick:

Babers's teams beat Indiana, Maryland, and Purdue.
Brandon's teams beat Pitt, Minnesota, Purdue, and Northwestern
Urb's teams beat Mizzou twice, Northwestern, and Kansas
Blackney had a win over Mizzou, but also didn't fare too well in these sorts of games (obviously VERY different era of football back then)