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i was having a discussion with an OSU fan that is very educated in college football. Thought I would share, invite him here and see your responses.
We were basically discussing whether or not in the current system BG could rise to a higher level or if how things are in college football restricts BGs upward mobility.......


Not to beat a dead horse, but a program occured to me this morning on my drive in to work that is exactly what BGSU should be shooting to be like (In terms of upward mobility.)

Former MAC mates - the Marshall Thundering Heard.

Huntington, West Virginia,
As of the census of 2000, there are 51,475 people, 22,955 households, and 12,235 families residing in the city.

Huntington is approximately 80 miles from Ohio University

Notes on the Herd:
On November 14, 1970 Marshall lost its entire team to an airline accident, and thus is the only school which can, with a straight face, ever say they have "overcome adversity."

Up until 1997, Marshall was a D-IAA power. They joined the MAC in 1997 and dominated it. This year, they begin play in C-USA.

Conference USA:
(From the Official C-USA site)
2005-06 Teams (12): East Carolina, Houston, Marshall, Memphis, Rice, SMU, Southern Miss, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB, UCF, UTEP
Divisions: Two. East Carolina, Marshall, Memphis, Southern Miss, UAB and UCF in the East. Houston, Rice, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa and UTEP in the West.
Scheduling Format: Eight conference games. Each school will not play two schools each season, based on a two-year rotation.
2005 Championship: Dec. 3, Site TBD. Hosted by school with best winning percentage in conference games.
2005 Bowl Tie-ins: AutoZone Liberty (first selection), GMAC (second selection), PlainsCapital Fort Worth, Sheraton Hawai'i and Wyndham New Orleans.

5 Bowl Tie Ins... (That's where BG is getting screwed, as I conceeded (Northwestern getting taken over BG in 03 was the example) MAC has 2 bowl tie-ins (GMAC, Motor City.)

Marshall Boasts a stadium named after a woman! (for God's sake...)
Joan C. Edwards Stadium



September 7, 1991, a new era in Marshall University history was entered when a record crowd of 33,116 jammed into Marshall University Stadium for the facility's inaugural game. The audience was the biggest in the state that day for a football game as West Virginia University attracted only 32,597 for its encounter with Bowling Green.

Again, BGSU -

Doyt L. Perry Stadium, with its 28,599 seating capacity, is celebrating its 37th year as the home of Bowling Green State University football. In 2001 permanent lighting was installed at the venue and home attendance doubled.

So, Marshall is about 5,000 seats bigger. Which they fill EVERY SINGLE HOME GAME, regardless of the competition. BGSU can't fill 28, 600 hardly ever.

The Heard travels well, consistently sending its following to bowl games. Heard fans are pretty darn rabid, win lose or draw.


So, now... how did Marshall get to the position they are in now? They built a huge following based on a winning tradition, and a goal of "upward mobility" Marshall, despite it's proximity to Ohio U, and fair proximity to WVU (about 200 miles) didn't worry about competing for fans and instead, gave them something to root for. Marshall, quite simply, invested in its program. They had a goal and they made it happen.

There is only one reason why BGSU can't attain similar results, and that is because they won't do it. Again, not Can't, Won't.

Working against Marshall is that there are very few recruits in WV that are any good. The ones that are any good go to WVU or get plucked by the big dogs. Conversely, Ohio High School football is consistently rated in the top 4 in that nation with Texas, Florida and California. Thus, BGSU can get the talent. And in fact, BGSU players are not bad. Josh Harris, for example, could have started for any number of "big schools."

BGSU can also get the coaches. One need look no further than Urban Myer, the best of a line a very good recent coaching talents. (And, no one, with the exception of Mark Snyder, perhaps, is just DYING to coach at Marshall and to stay there for their career). Marshall does one thing that BGSU doesn't. They pay more to keep em. Why? Cause they (the University Brass) know that football means revenue. Pay a little more, to get a lot more - at least thats the calculated risk.

Yeah, I said all that.

It's my contention that BGSU could be a more powerful program if the Admin invested in the program.

First, welcome. I am wondering why you say the administration will not invest here at BGSU? Have you seen the plans for the SEBO Center? And how would you do things different?

Thanks for the welcome... I'm not saying they won't, Germainfitch1 is basically saying they can't cause the population isn't enough, too close to Toledo, Ohio State steals all the big names (and Michigan gets the rest)... can't pay coaches like Urban enough to keep him.


My contention is that that's all nonsense. BGSU could build a program that would compete with the big boys, but it doesn't happen overnight.

Buckeyeskickbuttocks wrote:Thanks for the welcome... I'm not saying they won't, Germainfitch1 is basically saying they can't cause the population isn't enough, too close to Toledo, Ohio State steals all the big names (and Michigan gets the rest)... can't pay coaches like Urban enough to keep him.


My contention is that that's all nonsense. BGSU could build a program that would compete with the big boys, but it doesn't happen overnight.

(Marshal did have some help. Some people started pulling for Marshal because of the adversity it went through. People like rooting for underdogs. That horrible incident did put them in the spotlight. Not good or bad, but it was press and made the school almost a household name. That is something I hope BG, never has to go through.)

No it doesn't happen over night, but I think they are making an effort and doing it correctly. They are not putting their primary reason for existence in the backseat while they build their program. The general student population is the #1 priority as it should be.

The school is moving in the right direction to build a solid, consistent program 1st. Powerhouse? Well I can't really name that many "powerhouses" in football. Ohio State isn't one. Oklahoma and USC are the only two that I can think of that you could call "Powerhouses". Everything goes in cycles. The best thing that BG can be is a solid and consistent program.

My other favorite school, Mizzou, is trying to do the same thing, but having more of a problem than BG. They have all the nice facilities and other things that the major programs have. They just dont' have a winning tradition. Building a winning tradition is what takes time. Any team can be a flash in the pan and be forgotten the following year. BYU used to be a national contender, but has fallen. Same with Notre Dame.

Just be patient. BG is moving in the right direction.

BGALUMNI - I'm hip. I agree with you 100%. Especiallty with "The general student population is the #1 priority as it should be."

Maybe I'm using powerhouse a little loosely. Fact is, your OSU's, Michigans, Oklahoma's, Tennessee's and such are going to be ranked each year. AS you say, some go away over time (Nebraksa, ND, UCLA) but they usually come back at some point.

I'm patient enough, but then BG isn't my school (It is my nieces, though - and was my sisters)

On a different note, and not to sway the course of the convo, Ohio State will go undefeated before USC this year. You can take that to the bank. USC is loaded, don't get me wrong... still, they will miss Norm Chow a great deal.

While I see where you're coming from, I don't like the comparison to "how Marshall did it" one bit. If having a "successful" football team (assuming that a lateral-at-best move to CUSA is "success") means going through the thugs and probation that Marshall has gone through and shrugged off like it was nothing, then I'll gladly take the slow, yet straight and narrow path we seem to be on right now.

Marshall built their successes in 1-AA by taking on all comers, and while many of the players on their teams were likely decent kids that could play a bit of football, it doesn't take too many Randy Moss-esque cases of "I should be playing 1-A, but I like my weed too much." to sour the taste in my mouth. Get the winning going, and people follow, especially when all they have to do is sit in Huntington all week and weekend. Locals, students, whatever, it was easy to make the football program THE event each Saturday, I would assume, at least compared to BG where you're fighting with Ann Arbor, Columbus, and back home to Cleveland for your Saturday attention. (Feels good to get the old horse corpse out once in awhile, doesn't it?)

I think the administration at BG could do more to elevate our program to a higher level, which in turn would likely help the academic side, but it could also be disastrous if millions are poured into athletics only to hope academics see a boost sometime in the future. As was mentioned before, the Sebo Center is a helluva start, but they (including money earmarked from the Sebos themselves) are keeping an eye out for academics as well.

Buckeyeskickbuttocks wrote:Thanks for the welcome... I'm not saying they won't, Germainfitch1 is basically saying they can't cause the population isn't enough, too close to Toledo, Ohio State steals all the big names (and Michigan gets the rest)... can't pay coaches like Urban enough to keep him.


My contention is that that's all nonsense. BGSU could build a program that would compete with the big boys, but it doesn't happen overnight.

You said that they could but arn't doing the neccesary things.

TG - that's a good point, I didn't mean to imply BGSU should lie, cheat and steal to get there. My point was more to impress upon Germainfitch1 that it can be done, and it can be done the "right" way. Actually, BYU may be a good example.... or even Utah.

Germainfitch1 - I said that in response to your contention that BGSU has "everything" working against them. When it comes to the BGSU admin, I am making certain assumptions based on our earlier (unpublished) conversation(s) which may or may not be incorrect. Personally, I'm all for BG becoming a bigger team, the more great football in Ohio the better, far as I'm concerend.

"Locals, students, whatever, it was easy to make the football program THE event each Saturday"

There is no reason why BGSU can't make Falcon football THE event on Saturdays.

I've been up there, and there isn't a whole lot going on from what I could tell. I dont mean that as a flame, just saying if it was marketed better or if interest was made to be higher, there is no reason why BGSU shouldn't sell out every home game. I don' t know what they're doing in FOstoria and Findley, but seems to me BGSU should be making sure Falcon football enjoys popularity there.

Germainfitch1 wrote:Not to beat a dead horse, but a program occured to me this morning on my drive in to work that is exactly what BGSU should be shooting to be like (In terms of upward mobility.)

Former MAC mates - the Marshall Thundering Heard.

First off, no one should ever want to emulate Marshall or Huntington. Second, your comparing BG apples to rotten Marshall oranges. Perhaps you've never been to glorious Huntington or western West Virginia. Try visiting the nuclear waste disposal facility at Parkersburg if you're ever in the area. A wonderful tourist attraction. Plus, if you're big into methamphetamines, Huntington is the place to be.

Really though, how could BG ever hope to compete with the likes of Alderson Broaddus College, Appalachian Bible College, Bethany College, Bluefield State College, Concord College, Davis and Elkins College, Fairmont State College, Glenville State College, Mountain State University, Ohio Valley College, Salem International University, Shepherd College, University of Charleston, West Liberty State College, West Virginia State College, West Virginia Wesleyan College, and Wheeling Jesuit University. Ohio doesn't even compare to WV in terms of colleges competing for fans. Marshall had a built in fan base by default because there is no competition in the western half of the state, unlike Ohio that seems to have a D-1 program every 50 miles or less.

BG does appear to me to making strides in growing this program up. Marketing could always improve, but in terms of the product on the field, BG has done an outstanding job of "marketing" an outstanding football program that is going places. Meyer and now Brandon have thrust this program upon the national scene and have made the Falcons a readily recognized program among college fans. Rome was not built in a day, nor will a BG fan base. With continued success, the fans and laurels will come. Give it time.

Buckeyeskickbuttocks wrote:"Locals, students, whatever, it was easy to make the football program THE event each Saturday"

There is no reason why BGSU can't make Falcon football THE event on Saturdays.

I've been up there, and there isn't a whole lot going on from what I could tell. I dont mean that as a flame, just saying if it was marketed better or if interest was made to be higher, there is no reason why BGSU shouldn't sell out every home game. I don' t know what they're doing in FOstoria and Findley, but seems to me BGSU should be making sure Falcon football enjoys popularity there.

Agreed. And I think its coming around to the point where, at least SOME games are THE place to be. Its easy to get the world to show up for College Gameday and a big game with NIU, or to see Toledo (which brings many more fans just based on proximity to both schools). The challenge, and in some cases, the FOCUS needs to be getting people to get excited for a mid-October game with Buffalo, Akron, or the like. The ideas have been thrown around ad nauseum here for the past few years, and the recent hiring of a new marketing director who comes in with experience, and should come in with exciting new angles on getting the job done will hopefully start to get some results.

I think the difference between BG (and most MAC schools) and Utah is that not only does Utah have about one-tenth of the D-1 competition in its immediate area that most MAC schools have, but they were also pretty much handed a state of the art facility after the Salt Lake City Olympics. With the Sebo Center coming along, BG is taking the right steps toward providing quality facilities for recruits to ooh and ahh over, but on a much smaller, slower scale.

Now, if you would please stop with the coherent arguments, I think OSU fans making sense is right between frogs and locusts in the Apocalypse. (I know, I know "Other Schools" forum... blah blah blah... )

TG - hey, who I root for on Saturday doesn't make me a homer. lol (Edit - I decided to toss you a bone, though - here... blast me.. OSU rocks. You suck.)

I was telling Germaine, the fact that Ohio is a football hotbed works in BG's favor. I understand that a school like BG competing with OSU, Mich, and ND in the local area is a tough nut to crack. Still, Ohio has a bunchof HS talent. Texas, Florida, Ohio and Cali are consistently the top 4. If you go by % to populatino, I'd put Ohio #2 (behind Fla) in D-IA recruits.

UK Peregrine - that's kinda my point. I'll say it again, I was not attempting to suggest that Marshall did it "right" just that it can be done. Again, it's my position that there is no reason why BG can't become a bigger/better program. In otherwords, I don' t believe the deck is stacked against BG.

That's not to say it's an easy road to hoe. The MAC should start by getting more lesser bowl tie-ins. That's where the MAC is getting beat up financially. If CUSA has 5, the MAC should have at least that many.

I won't blast ya. We've been up and down that river here, and made a new forum thanks to it. Who you root for on Saturdays only makes a difference if you can't take off the colored glasses Sunday-Friday. (Freak being the exception of course. )

The problem with location is that not only are they recruiting for the "top name" recruits in the area with UM, OSU and ND (among a few other Big 10 schools now and again), but they also have Toledo, a top flight mid-major, as well as all the other MAC schools that may not offer a high end program, but have shown promise and might be able to offer other things, like proximity to home (ain't it a bitch when daddy has to drive too far to see his kid play? ), immediate playing time, a stronger academic program in a field of interest. BG is good enough to recruit with about anyone, and should have a step up on other MAC schools (outside the top 3 or 4 - UT and Miami(OH) locally), but is it a big enough step up to grab a kid who might be a four year starter out of the gate at Kent or Ohio U.?

Which is why I like, too, that our coaching staff is increasing their recruiting footprint on a national level, finding "hot spots" and mining the hell out of them. Georgia and parts of Florida have been very kind to us the past few years.

And I'd be remiss in failing to point out that BG has always held its own with Ohio State in terms of onthe field competition head to head.

OSU blasted Toledo, blasted Kent State, destroyed Akron... Beat up Ohio... But Miami and BG have done the MAC proud.