Preach it Brother Stewart!

[TG1996]

In a thread that could have been easily entitled "F*ck Marshall!", I found this interesting article by CNNSI's Stewart Mandel about the state of conferences after realignment.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/w ... index.html

In a nutshell, he says the MAC is "about the same" after the departure of Marshall and UCF, and ConvictUSA is "Significantly Worse", despite the addition of the Herdlings and UCFKers.

Only thing I have issue with is referring to Marshall as "the class of the MAC" from 1997-2002. They might have been the champs of the MAC during that stretch, but "class"??? I don't think they know the meaning of the word.

In any of its contexts.

[Germainfitch1]

Reading that article I see how wrong I was about conference USA. They are way to far south reaching for us to ever be a part of.

If I am the BG I am thinking ahead to some kind of future involving Temple and the 6 teams in the Big East besides Rutgers and South Florida.Now are we eventually getting Temple for basketball or not?

[BGSU-Ph.D.]

Reading that article I see how wrong I was about conference USA. They are way to far south reaching for us to ever be a part of.

If I am the BG I am thinking ahead to some kind of future involving Temple and the 6 teams in the Big East besides Rutgers and South Florida.Now are we eventually getting Temple for basketball or not?

Why without those two?

[Schadenfreude]

Reading that article I see how wrong I was about conference USA. They are way to far south reaching for us to ever be a part of.

If I am the BG I am thinking ahead to some kind of future involving Temple and the 6 teams in the Big East besides Rutgers and South Florida.Now are we eventually getting Temple for basketball or not?

Why without those two?

I imagine several MAC schools will keep an eye on the Big East's situation.

I don't picture us at the front of the line.

[Germainfitch1]

who then?

[Schadenfreude]

who then?

Well, since you ask:

I think Central Florida might be near the top of any Big East expansion list. As it stands, South Florida is an island in the middle of nowhere for that league. Add Central Florida, and the Big East can pair the two up for travel. Northern teams can fly into Florida and knock out two games with a single flight.

I think Memphis also bears watching. Memphis may be the strongest non BCS program East of the Mississippi. They bring a lot of basketball tradition, big crowds in football and they would get the Big East's foot into the door of the Liberty Bowl. It also has some historic ties to Louisville and Cincinnati. Some say Memphis' relationships with Louisville and Cincinnati are a bit frayed right now, but it's still a strong program.

Two other programs that bear watching are East Carolina and Temple.

East Carolina has a strong football program -- they've been outdrawing any team in the MAC despite a team that is playing like a MAC cellar dweller lately. And East Carolina certainly wants in badly; Conference USA doesn't make nearly as much sense geographically.

I'm skeptical that Temple would be taken seriously as a Big East expansion candidate since they were officially thrown out just a few days ago. But we have to keep in mind that most assume the Big East football schools would exand after ditching the basketball schools. There are some who say the biggest thorn in Temple's side all these years was Villanova, which did everything it could to keep Temple from being a full member. If the Big East football schools leave, Villanova would not have a seat at the table.

Those are the non MAC schools that might have an edge on us.

Let's talk MAC schools.

I think Miami and Toledo could be ahead of us in line.

The case for Miami is this:
-- Historically, they've gotten more done in the MAC than any other program.
-- They are the academic star of our conference.
-- They have better faciliites.

The only argument against Miami is the possibility that Cincinnati could blackball them. I don't think we can assume anything here.

The case for Toledo is pretty simple. They are in a stronger position in our market than we are. I don't like it. I'd like to change it. But when you look at the kind of crowds Toledo gets for their football games it is, unfortunately, a fact right now.

Further, I think we're no more than an even choice when compared to Northern Illinois and Ohio. Ohio has academic snob appeal and some of their facilities (e.g., the Convocation Center) are more impressive than ours. And, considering how bad their football program has been for so long, they get decent crowds.

Geography works against Northern Illinois, but it is in a position to make further inroads in Chicago, something we can't offer.

Finally, let's not forget about Marshall. I always assumed West Virginia would blackball them until endlessly. But detailed minutes of the emergency meetings of the Big East football schools to discuss expansion have surfaced on the Internet. WVU president David Hardesty actually put forward Marshall as an expansion choice. The idea was shot down quickly. But at least we know WVU may not be standing in their way.

To wrap up: If/when the Big East football schools expands, it isn't going to add more than four schools.

I don't see a lot of reason to think we would receive serious consideration as one of the four. Even if Miami, Toledo, Ohio and Bowling Green teamed up and offered themselves as a unified expansion choice to the Big East -- could that possibly impress the Big East more than some of the other options available to them?

I have my doubts.

The best thing for Bowling Green is a stronger MAC. It's important we recognize this.

[Rightupinthere]

who then?

The best thing for Bowling Green is a stronger MAC. It's important we recognize this.

Your final line has been my battle cry for the past year or so.

As to your Big East invitee list: I would place UT and Miami as a draw. UT's market and attendance versus Miami's heritage and academics washes each other out. That, and as you stated, Cincy would have a hissy (I presume because their football team would get the butts handed to them at least once a year.)

Take off Ohio. They are in the same boat as we are - facilities or no. I would add Buffalo in Ohio's spot. Before people start rolling their eyes, their B-Ball is up and coming and their football may turn into something here in the near future. UB also has solid acedemics/research not found in any other MAC school.

[Flipper]

I think NIU might be a better expansion candidate for the Big East than Toledo and perhaps Miami. The added distance vs Toledo isn't that big of a factor and the Chicago market is a huge vacuum given Northwestern and Illinois chronic football suckage. NIU would open a frontier for the Big East and give Cincy and Lousiville a playmate that's somewhat close, but not so close that they infringe on anyone's base.

Toledo's biggest drawback is its name.."Toledo" just isn't in the same class as Pittsburgh or Cincinatti. It sounds so second rate...

[MiamiBando]

Okay, I am gonna talk about why sUCks would have a fit about Miami...

A) Academics. Miami is a HECK of alot better than sUCks in this area, whether they have 5 top programs or not.

B) Football team. We hand them their butts many a year, and we ARE rivals. (Battle for the Victory Bell?)

C) Location. sUCks doesn't wanna compete with another school in the same conference that is only 45 minutes away. It might cut into their TV time.

D) Basketball. The ONLY reason they will still agree to play Miami is because we are rivals, and they "know" it's a win. They will only play Miami at Shoemaker, or USBank Arena. Since before I was at Miami the games have been at USBank Arena. That means it's a home game for sUCks, and they don't have to "slum"(pardon the pun ) in Millett and Oxford.

If it weren't for Miami and sUCks being so close, and having such a LONG history(Nippert Stadium is named after a young man who died playing Miami in like 1916.) they would refuse to play us. They don't want to. Oh, and you can't spell SUCKS without UC!

(A good friend who is staying in OTown said that there were some people from the Big East in Oxford looking around. He said he knew they were from the Big East because they had shirts that had the logo, and BIG EAST writin on it.

[Rightupinthere]

(A good friend who is staying in OTown said that there were some people from the Big East in Oxford looking around. He said he knew they were from the Big East because they had shirts that had the logo, and BIG EAST writin on it.

Is your friend sure the shirts didn't say "Big Easy" on them? Perhaps they were from the N'Arlins Bowl or something.

[MiamiBando]

I dunno, he could have been mistaken. But the Big East would make sense, they were in Cinci for Big East Day.

[Germainfitch1]

The best thing for Bowling Green is a stronger MAC. It's important we recognize this.[/quote]

It may be important to recognize this but how do you propose we get this?

I envisioned (with hope) an implosion of the Big East down the line where Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Syracuse joined the MAC and the directional Michigans left.

East:Pitt, Syracuse, Temple, Ohio, Kent, Akron, Buffalo
West:Miami, Cincinnati, Toledo, N. Illinois, Bowling Green, Ball State

With the Bowl tie ins and BCS tie ins to the Big East name this is unlikely but I am just putting things out there.
I think Louisville is destined for the ACC or SEC and West Virginia may as well.

I put in Cuse because they would have an easy tie-in to Buff, Cincy to Miami (which it seems I was wrong about them), Pittsburgh is a stretch but its my alma matter so I wanted to throw them in.

[BGSU-Ph.D.]

who then?

I think Central Florida might be near the top of any Big East expansion list. As it stands, South Florida is an island in the middle of nowhere for that league. Add Central Florida, and the Big East can pair the two up for travel. Northern teams can fly into Florida and knock out two games with a single flight.

----------

I can't imagine that South Florida would be too jazzed about the idea of Central Florida joining the Big East. South Florida has a huge advantage over Central in recruiting. USF's program is on the rise and UCF's stinks. Why would USF want to help UCF become stronger? Why would USF want another Big East school in such close proximity? Plus, USF and UCF don't exactly like each other. USF is in place as the only other major player in the state outside of Florida's Big Three. I don't see them giving that up without a fight.

[Schadenfreude]

The best thing for Bowling Green is a stronger MAC. It's important we recognize this.

It may be important to recognize this but how do you propose we get this?

I envisioned (with hope) an implosion of the Big East down the line where Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Syracuse joined the MAC and the directional Michigans left.

This is too complicated. It is tough to think of an incentive for those programs to join the MAC. It is also tough for me to imagine the MAC throwing members out. Nearly every school would probably have to agree on this -- which doesn't lend itself to throwing out multiple members.

A simpler solution: six or eight of the best MAC programs leave the conference and form a new one with a couple of other schools.

What about?

West: Bowling Green, Toledo, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan and a sixth to be named later.
East: Miami, Ohio, Buffalo, Temple, Massachusetts, Western Kentucky

Further, would Dayton and Xavier want to participate in all sports but football?

Problem with my scenario is the cost. We'd leave a lot of NCAA tournament revenue on the table, I think.

[MiamiBando]

I seriously doubt Xavier and UD would agree to be in the same conference as Miami. They are already uppity, think they are SO much better than Miami. (that is a strike against that plan.) Plus, X and UD are happily in the A-10. They have no reason to leave. X canned football a few years back, and UD is d-1AA and they don't have any scholarships, and as such, they suck. Miami refused to schedule them. Too much of a cake walk.