Ay-Ziggy-Zoomba.com

someone sounds awfully bitter.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plainde ... xml&coll=2
doug johnson seems to be on the defensive the entire article. are we to assume that both frye and josh are outperforming him.

oh, and get this...
"Like I said, coming from Akron to the NFL is a huge jump," Johnson said. "It's not SEC football. And it's definitely not the NFL."

OK, so what about Roethlisberger? How do you explain 15 straight wins?

"I don't know how to explain it," Johnson said.

i was, obviously, rooting for josh. i'm rooting all that much harder for him, and, for doug johnson's demise. i don't want him on my team.

Doug Johnson wrote:"To be honest, I didn't see him play. He had a good year on a good team. I'm a firm believer that a quarterback's as good as everybody around him."

Okay, Dougie, then how do you explain a 2003 Atlanta Falcons team that went 1-7 with you as starter, but then 4-4 when Vick came back off a broken leg and was still not fully healed? I believe he then led a similar cast of players to the 2005 NFC title game, didn't he? How come you failed to do the same since a quarterback's only as good as everybody around him?

Please Doug, you suck. Take your snaps, wear out your arm, then go home. God I hope this guy doesn't end up making the team, and that's the BROWNS fan in me saying that, not the J5 fan.

hammb wrote:[quote="Doug Johnson']"To be honest, I didn't see him play. He had a good year on a good team. I'm a firm believer that a quarterback's as good as everybody around him."

Okay, Dougie, then how do you explain a 2003 Atlanta Falcons team that went 1-7 with you as starter, but then 4-4 when Vick came back off a broken leg and was still not fully healed? I believe he then led a similar cast of players to the 2005 NFC title game, didn't he? How come you failed to do the same since a quarterback's only as good as everybody around him?

Please Doug, you suck. Take your snaps, wear out your arm, then go home. God I hope this guy doesn't end up making the team, and that's the BROWNS fan in me saying that, not the J5 fan.[/quote]

I second that. Get out of the way so the young guns can get some snaps. Rooting for the Browns all these years, I can't remember wanting someone to fail, but this certainly is the case.

that article was the biggest piece of s**t i've read in awhile. he gave josh no props whatsoever throughout the whole thing. infact he only mentioned his name once. at the end of the article it says "they say preseason games don't count, but they will count a lot in the battle between frye and johnson." on ok fuckin tony grossi, you're right, harris isn't in this 'battle' at all.

What a dick.

Well, if I were Johnson, I'd probably say the same thing.

Gang, here's my take - we're going to learn a whole lot about Josh's situation on Saturday. If he doesn't get significant PT, it's not a good sign at all.

Schadenfreude wrote:What a dick.

Always has been, always will be.

Having seen both of them in action, I can not buy that Frye is any better, or even just as good, as Harris. This is bullsh*t and a big reason I am quickly being turned off on Cleveland sports.

Bleeding Orange wrote:

Schadenfreude wrote:What a dick.

Always has been, always will be.

Having seen both of them in action, I can not buy that Frye is any better, or even just as good, as Harris. This is bullsh*t and a big reason I am quickly being turned off on Cleveland sports.

Frye was just as good as Harris in college, and is a better pro prospect. His passing is much more polished, and he's taller which is important in the NFL.

I'm as big of a J5 fan as there ever was, but Frye is also a good QB. My basis for believing J5 can make it is mostly intangibles, because physically he is not that gifted by NFL standards. I think Frye has a lot of those same intagible qualities.

When Harris dropped down to the 6th round of the draft it was a pretty good indication that he'd be a longshot to make it in the NFL. I'm still hoping the best for him, but honestly if he cannot make this Browns team he will probably never make it in the NFL without first going to Europe or arena ball.

BTW, here is the latest info from the insiders:

Bernie's Insiders has been commenting on the website and our weekly radio show about the less-than-impressive training camp for Josh Harris. It appears that Romeo Crennel has come to the same conclusion, as Harris is now taking fewer and fewer reps with the second unit. The competition now appears to be between Doug Johnson and rookie Charlie Frye.

Early in training camp I was hearing a lot about how bad Johnson was and how Harris was playing better. Lately I've been hearing how Charlie Frye is passing them both, and Harris is not really impressing anyone. That is NOT good for him. If they both play equal they'll keep Johnson since he's a vet...

I'm hoping the best for him, but like '87 said we'll have a REAL good indication Saturday. If Josh gets little playing time its likely over. If he gets a good deal of playing time he better make the most of it.

I've always felt that Josh was a true LEADER, perhaps more than being a good QB.... The PD carried an article re: Marino's enshrinement somewhat belittling the fact that he'd "never won the big one" i.e. Super Bowl...But i think a QB has to be more than pure stats...


In essence, I would hope that Josh has retained that leadership quality, and has a chance to show it in preseason, preferably with some 1st or 2nd string players, not just roster fill ins for the preseason.

hamm

Being a 6th round pick in the draft doesn't mean anything in terms of finding a starting spot on an NFL Roster. Brady and Bulger are both NFL starters that were taken in the 6th rounds.

Even look at Warner with Phoenix.

The round doesn't determine what the player does when he gets to the NFL.

BGALUMNI wrote:hamm

Being a 6th round pick in the draft doesn't mean anything in terms of finding a starting spot on an NFL Roster. Brady and Bulger are both NFL starters that were taken in the 6th rounds.

Even look at Warner with Phoenix.

The round doesn't determine what the player does when he gets to the NFL.

While you are correct, I think that's too broad a blanket to toss over this specific topic. Remember that Brady had basically secured the #2 spot, as had Bulger, if memory serves.

The devil is in the details here, and the details aren't promising. Harris started by getting a lot of reps with the 2nd team, which is the absolute best thing he could hope for, given that Dilfer came in as the anointed starter. But as camp as progressed, we're hearing more and more reports that Harris has not been impressive and, even if you set those aside, it seems clear that Harris is getting less and less work with the second team. Not good. Finally, Crennel has been openly praising Frye, which again doesn't bode well.

Can 6th-round QBs be NFL stars. Yes, clearly. But this specific situation is not shaping up well for Harris.

Saturday is a big day for Josh, maybe the single biggest day of his fledgling NFL career. BTW, as luck would have it, it looks like Noah & I will be in the stands. I'm hoping Josh gets his shot ... and makes the most of it. Otherwise, we could be witnessing the end of his NFL career.

1987alum wrote:

While you are correct, I think that's too broad a blanket to toss over this specific topic. Remember that Brady had basically secured the #2 spot, as had Bulger, if memory serves.

The devil is in the details here, and the details aren't promising. Harris started by getting a lot of reps with the 2nd team, which is the absolute best thing he could hope for, given that Dilfer came in as the anointed starter. But as camp as progressed, we're hearing more and more reports that Harris has not been impressive and, even if you set those aside, it seems clear that Harris is getting less and less work with the second team. Not good. Finally, Crennel has been openly praising Frye, which again doesn't bode well.


Can 6th-round QBs be NFL stars. Yes, clearly. But this specific situation is not shaping up well for Harris.

Saturday is a big day for Josh, maybe the single biggest day of his fledgling NFL career. BTW, as luck would have it, it looks like Noah & I will be in the stands. I'm hoping Josh gets his shot ... and makes the most of it. Otherwise, we could be witnessing the end of his NFL career.

Bulger and Brady were #2 to top rated superstar QBs. Dilfer is not that guy.

But anyhow, what else do you expect Crennel to do? He is a new coach and only someone completely blind and deaf wouldn't realize that Frye is the hometown favorite, so him speaking of Frye in the media is no surprise. It creates more support and more interest in the team. That is not saying that Frye hasn't earned it, just that it does make sense from a PR standpoint.


I don't know why you would say this would be the end of Harris's career? If Jamie Martin can survive in the NFL as long as he has, there is still hope for Harris no matter what happens in Cleveland.

I am not sure that Cleveland was always the best fit for Harris anyhow. Atlanta, Dallas, Seattle, and others would probably better fitted to Harris and his future.

BGALUMNI wrote:hamm

Being a 6th round pick in the draft doesn't mean anything in terms of finding a starting spot on an NFL Roster. Brady and Bulger are both NFL starters that were taken in the 6th rounds.

Even look at Warner with Phoenix.

The round doesn't determine what the player does when he gets to the NFL.

Like '87 eluded to, I did not say for a second that Josh couldn't make it being a 6th rounder. What I said was that his dropping that far said that he was a longshot. These NFL teams spend millions in scouting and preparation to know which players will fare best in the league. Certainly they make mistakes, probably as often as not, but still there was something that made him drop.

Like '61 stated what made Josh special was his leadership. I agree 100% with that. The thing is in college he was also a special athlete. On an NFL field his leadership abilities have to make up for a deficiency in the physical talent side...he's just not as talented, physically, as most starting NFL QBs (of course, neither is Brady).

I'm not giving up on Josh, I still think he can do it, but if he's still struggling in camp he may have to go the NFL Europe/Arena league route to get there. For a QB there is no substitute for game experience and he may not be good enough to get that experience in the NFL. Warner & Garcia are a couple guys who played in the lesser leagues and then became pro-bowlers at the NFL level, so certainly it can be done, if you're willing to put the work in and continue learning.

Like '61 stated early in camp everyone was saying that Harris was clearly the #2 at the time. All the early camp reports had him playing with the 2nd string. Now most reports from camp are saying that Frye is getting a lot of time with the 2's while Johnson is also getting time with the 2's & the 1's. Seeing this really makes me step back and ask where Harris is now getting his reps, and I'm fearful that the true answer is he may not be getting as many now. I've thought all along that Harris could & would beat out Johnson, but as camp has progressed the reports I've read make me believe that Johnson is gaining the upper hand on that roster spot.

My point from above still stands. If Harris cannot beat out Doug Johnson for a roster spot then he probably needs to pursue a season or two in a lesser league. You can get back to the NFL, and he'd be much better served by spending a season as an arena league starter rather than a practice squad member. It should be noted that I applaud Josh's wishes to stay with Tami as she was giving birth to their first child, but we cannot overlook the football decision that was made. Josh was asked by the Browns to partake in NFL Europe, where he likely would've started or gotten significant playing time. He turned that down to be with Tami, which is wonderful, but it is a decision that could severely hamper his football career.

I still wish him the best, but its not looking good anymore...hopefully he'll play & play well Saturday.

BGALUMNI wrote: Bulger and Brady were #2 to top rated superstar QBs. Dilfer is not that guy.

Irrelevant. The point '87 is trying to make is that they both were able to secure #2 jobs in camp. Harris got cut last year and placed on the practice squad, and is now struggling to beat out a rookie & veteran retread for a roster spot in Cleveland. That's not a good sign.

I don't know why you would say this would be the end of Harris's career? If Jamie Martin can survive in the NFL as long as he has, there is still hope for Harris no matter what happens in Cleveland.

Martin has had some success at various places when he was forced into action when the starter went down. Again, I would bet that he did something in camp/preseason to earn a backup job before the seasons that he's played too. Right now it is sounding as though Harris is struggling in camp. Certainly there is hope for Harris, but he would probably be best served going to either NFL Europe or the arena league.

I am not sure that Cleveland was always the best fit for Harris anyhow. Atlanta, Dallas, Seattle, and others would probably better fitted to Harris and his future.

Depends on his goals. I think that Harris wants to be a starting NFL QB. That wouldnt' happen in any of those cities. Atlanta & Seattle are set at QB and as long as Parcells is coaching at Dallas they won't be playing a young QB. In Cleveland Harris is being given an opportunity to compete for a backup spot right now and a possible chance to compete for the starting position as early as next season. I can't imagine that there is a better spot in the NFL for a fringe NFL QB who wants a chance to prove that they're worthy of starting.

Just for the sake of this discussion ... sure, Bulger and Brady were late picks. But let's not forget where the overwhelming majority of QBs drafted in the sixth round end up.

To wit, QBs drafted in the 6th round -

2004: Andy Hall (Delaware), Josh Harris (BGSU), Jim Sorgi (Wisky), Jeff Smoker (Michigan State)

2003: Drew Henson (Michigan), Brooks Bollinger (Wisky), Kliff Kingsbury (Texas Tech).

2002: J.T. O'Sullivan (Cal-Davis)

2001: Josh Booty (LSU), Josh Heupel (Oklahoma)

2000: The aforementioned Marc Bulger (West Virginia), Spergon Wynn (West Texas State), the aforementioned Tom Brady (Michigan), Todd Husak (Stanford), JaJuan Seider (Florida A&M)

1999: No QBs drafted in the sixth; Kevin Daft of UC-Davis was the only QB drafted in the fifth round and three QBs - Michael Bishop (Kansas State), Chris Greisen (NWMizzou), Scott Covington (Miami) - all went in the 7th.

1998: John Dutton (Nevada), Matt Hasselbeck (BC)

1997: Mike Cherry (Murray State), Chuck Clements (Houston)

1996: Spence Fischer (Duke), Mike Cawley (James Madison)

1995: Jerry Colquitt (Tenn.), Craig Whelihan (Pacific)

1994: Jim Miller (Michigan State)

1993: No QBs taken in the 6th.