SEC fans...

[Bleeding Orange]

I couldn't figure out how to put the little rolly-eyed guy in the thread title, but I wanted to. In the office I now work in there are three SEC fans - one of Tennessee, one of Georgia and one of LSU. My supervisor is the Georgia fan, and I made the mistake of telling her that Boise has a heck of a chance to beat them and may even be favored in the game, and furthermore that I would take BG straight up against Georgia any day. She then went and told the other two so that they could gang up on me and prove to me that SEC football is a "totally different game."

Despite the onslaught I have been taking, I have remained steadfast. They love to pull up the top 25 and count the number of SEC teams vs. the number of MAC teams included, but I maintain that the polls are mostly bogus, anyhow. There is no doubt that there are a few great teams in the SEC, but to say that SEC footaball is a "totally different game" from "mid-major" football is totally ludicrous to me. I maintain that there are 119 DI programs and that the football is of the same caliber just about everywhere (Marshall and UCF excluded ). The caveat there is that some schools have more money invested in football and allow more recruiting violations to take place - but it is the same game on all 119 fields.

I think this may be an interesting conversation to have around here while we're waiting for the season to begin. This has actually turned into a pretty fun and congenial debate, but I am still amazed at the arrogance of SEC fans. They are - and I never thought I would say this - worse than Big 11 fans.

An interesting side-note, though, is that my supervisor told me that she is going to learn the BG fight song to be supportive. She really is great, and I hope to change her opinion on not only "mid majors," but BG, as well!

[Rightupinthere]

I cured this by my choice of employment.

Let's see. In my department I am aware of grads from MU, BG, John Carroll, Xavier, Case, Yale, Kent, Akron, Cornell (Cornell guy just left so I shouldn't count him).

The biggest school represented was an FNG we hired out of the MIT business school(MBA). His undergrad was Kansas State.

No big schools represented. That saves a lot of aggravation. There are some Franklin County Institute for Moral Relativity and Rule Flexibility fans, I'm sure, but we're far too busy to care.

[Ineedbotox]

Well, I already know y'all will tell me my opinion doesn't count b/c I am a girl. But personally, I think the SEC & the Big 12 South are the toughest conferences (surprise). That is just based on my own observations over the past few years.

As for whether MAC is on par with those: good question. I know the MAC has made great strides since I graduated. But I will just tell you, as you already know, people in those other conferences will not buy into the beauty of the MAC even after getting beaten by them. When given scholarship offers from various schools in SEC-Big12-Big10-PAC10 schools, vs. scholarship offers from the MAC, most kids would pick the former. And, for what it's worth ($0), all of the unnamed Big 12 players I know think the MAC sucks & is subpar football.

[The Continental]

Is this really a question...comparing the MAC and SEC is apples and oranges in every regard (recruitment, talent, fans, tradition, winning).

[PGY Tiercel]

I would have to say that as a whole, the MAC is not as good as the SEC. I would like to see that change, but right now with the directionals and buffalo the MAC as a whole is weaker than the SEC. I do believe that the Top 4 teams could beat, or at least make a good game out of, all the SEC teams. I also don't quite notice the SEC arogance in the fans here at UK (in basketball its not so much that the SEC is great, they just place UK at the right hand of god), but maybe thats because our football team sucks.

BTW Botox, because of you status has a girl, we will not discount you opinion, however we will only give it 2/3 weight as that of a boys.

[The Continental]

I do believe that the Top 4 teams could beat, or at least make a good game out of, all the SEC teams.

uuhhh no. We're not talking about Kansas or Missouri. We're talking Florida, Tennesee, Auburn, and LSU. Every once in a while a MAC team could compete (Miami in '03, perhaps), but overall top MAC teams would be likely be beaten rather handily by most SEC teams except for Kentucky, Vandy, Miss. State, and sometimes Ole Miss.

[Ineedbotox]

BTW Botox, because of you status has a girl, we will not discount you opinion, however we will only give it 2/3 weight as that of a boys.

Being that you agreed with me & that I am a helluva lot smarter than you, I guess that makes us even.

[Schadenfreude]

overall top MAC teams would be likely be beaten rather handily by most SEC teams except for Kentucky, Vandy, Miss. State, and sometimes Ole Miss.

Transitivity has to be treated carefully, but in 2004: Bowling Green > Memphis > Mississippi

I'm sorta hoping for a Bowling Green > Boise State > Georgia in 2005. We'll see what happens.

[The Continental]

Georgia lost a lot of players to the draft, had a horrible spring (arrests, injuries, etc.), and from what I've seen of dj shockley, he doesn't have the mindset to be a good passing qb. So, I wouldn't be suprised if Boise beats Georgia, especially being the first game of the year for both teams.

[PGY Tiercel]

I do believe that the Top 4 teams could beat, or at least make a good game out of, all the SEC teams.

uuhhh no. We're not talking about Kansas or Missouri. We're talking Florida, Tennesee, Auburn, and LSU. Every once in a while a MAC team could compete (Miami in '03, perhaps), but overall top MAC teams would be likely be beaten rather handily by most SEC teams except for Kentucky, Vandy, Miss. State, and sometimes Ole Miss.

Completely disagaree,of course until we get some games actually scheduled, neither of us can actually our aurguements up. However assuming Boise beats UGA and then we beat Boise, some extrapolations might be made. I would also argue that currently Arkansa and Alamba are beatable by BG. I'm not saying BG would beat them all. However I am saying that we can make a good game to watch. That said if we can beat 5-6 teams in a 12 team conference, don't you think that our abilities are equal.

[The Continental]

1.)BG would always play SEC teams on the road...so even mediocre SEC teams would be favored, and the weather would possibly be a major detriment to the team, particularly in Sept/Oct

2.)If you assume that BG is the best team in the MAC, they could POSSIBLY beat 4-5 SEC teams. But then the worst SEC team (probably UK) could beat the majority of MAC schools. Hell, a handful of MAC schools are currently ranked in the 100s, and you think these conferences are equal? Seriously, it defies logic.

[PGY Tiercel]

I never said the conferences are equal. In fact the first thing I said was that the MAC as a whole is not as good as the SEC. Maybe UK could beat up the Michigans/buffalo, but OU came here last year, and hand UK its ass. Seriously defing logic, is not reading what some says
Regardless of whether or not they are equal, I don't care I love watching BG play and also enjoy SEC football. I would be extremely thrilled for BG to schedule some SEC football teams and see what they can do.

[Schadenfreude]

And, obviously, 2003: Northern Illinois > Alabama.

This risks turning into this giant flame war and I don't want that.

I'll stipulate the SEC, overall, is better. It would be foolish to argue otherwise.

But I hope The Contintential will recognize that there aren't very many matchups between the best MAC teams and the SEC. So we don't have a lot of evidence to work with.

Even so, my impression is that Contintental's position:

overall top MAC teams would be likely be beaten rather handily by most SEC teams except for Kentucky, Vandy, Miss. State, and sometimes Ole Miss.

Is shaky.

Last year, the only MAC-SEC game that comes to mind is Ohio at Kentucky. Ohio is not a top MAC team, yet the Bobcats beat the Wildcats.

And, as I've said, Northern Illinois beat Alabama the previous year.

The last time Bowling Green played an SEC team was 1996. Alabama won 21-7. I was there, and as I remember it the game felt a bit closer than the score.

That Alabama team went 10-3 and won the West. Bowling Green went 5-6 in the MAC.

The meeting before that was 1985, when Bowling Green over Kentucky (It doesn't prove much, as Bowling Green was fantastic that year and Kentucky was ... Kentucky).

The only other two meetings with the SEC were in 1979 and 1980, at Kentucky, where a pair of 4-7 Bowling Green teams lost a pair of close ones. (20-14 and 21-20).

[The Continental]

UK was the worst team in the SEC last year and Ohio beat them...fair enough.

No. Illinois was pretty damn good in '03...Bama was coming NCAA probation and was a very weak SEC team that year (4-9, 2-6).

These points do not differ with mine. One great MAC team in a given year could possibly beat 5 or 6 SEC teams, just like the Big 10 or ACC. However, the odds that the top 5 SEC teams would lose to even a MAC conference champion is extremely low in my opinion.

[Warthog]

However, the odds that the top 5 SEC teams would lose to even a MAC conference champion is extremely low in my opinion.

Under the current system, I would agree because every matchup would be played at the SEC school. If some of these games were home games for the MAC team, I think the outcome could be much different.

So my evaluation technique in cases like this is not to compare the teams in the two different leagues, but to put that team in that conference and project how they would do. UK & Vandy, would probably be .500 teams in the MAC. Tenn, Fla, LSU, etc, they would win the MAC easily. On the flip side, I could see BG, Toledo, Miami, and No Ill all being upper division teams in the SEC (remember I am counting on these schools getting home games in this projection). I could see some of these teams going 6-2 or 5-3. But after that, I think all the other MAC schools would struggle to even win a game if they played in the SEC.