Our pal "Drago"...

[bgsufalcon24]

I'm pretty much in Flipper's corner on this one. Since I started following BGSU athletics 8 years ago...our football and men's basketball programs haven't been stellar, but they've been at least average. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. Occassionally football will have an 8-9 win year and go bowling, or men's basketball will win 10-11 games in MAC play and contend for the conference title. Other years won't be so great, but I've come to realize that consistent success in those two sports doesn't come easily. Football in particular went through a very rough stretch in 2010 but you can see that the team improved a lot this year and is on the upswing. Men's basketball is probably better this year than they have been at any time I've followed them, and they just had a regular season conference title 2 years back.

With hockey, I have seen nothing, absolutely zero, indication that the program is even capable of competing with the mid-level teams in the CCHA, much less the good teams. Once in a great while we'll upset Miami, or Michigan, or whomever (not Notre Dame though, lol) but we are simply not capable of recruiting the top athletes required to compete at the top level. Now that isn't to say Bergeron won't be able to turn around the team long term, but I've seen every excuse under the sun for why BGSU hockey isn't winning. Us BG football and basketball fans don't make nearly the amount of excuses the hockey folk do around here.

I'll conclude by saying the first BG football game I ever saw at the Doyt, we won 70-7. The first hockey game I ever saw at the Ice Arena, we got pounded 9-3. So admittedly hockey didn't make a good first impression, but the program has done very little to make me believe things are going well or will go well in the future.

[BGFan]

I'm pretty much in Flipper's corner on this one. Since I started following BGSU athletics 8 years ago...our football and men's basketball programs haven't been stellar, but they've been at least average. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. Occassionally football will have an 8-9 win year and go bowling, or men's basketball will win 10-11 games in MAC play and contend for the conference title. Other years won't be so great, but I've come to realize that consistent success in those two sports doesn't come easily. Football in particular went through a very rough stretch in 2010 but you can see that the team improved a lot this year and is on the upswing. Men's basketball is probably better this year than they have been at any time I've followed them, and they just had a regular season conference title 2 years back.

With hockey, I have seen nothing, absolutely zero, indication that the program is even capable of competing with the mid-level teams in the CCHA, much less the good teams. Once in a great while we'll upset Miami, or Michigan, or whomever (not Notre Dame though, lol) but we are simply not capable of recruiting the top athletes required to compete at the top level. Now that isn't to say Bergeron won't be able to turn around the team long term, but I've seen every excuse under the sun for why BGSU hockey isn't winning. Us BG football and basketball fans don't make nearly the amount of excuses the hockey folk do around here.

I'll conclude by saying the first BG football game I ever saw at the Doyt, we won 70-7. The first hockey game I ever saw at the Ice Arena, we got pounded 9-3. So admittedly hockey didn't make a good first impression, but the program has done very little to make me believe things are going well or will go well in the future.

Like we all didn't already know that.

[Flipper]

I have nothing against hockey...I hope the program bounces back...I just get irritated when some of the real die hards talk about the notionthat other programs here should take a back seat to the sport

[Falcon1970]

Nonsense...pure nonsense. Football was very successful in the 80's...as was hockey. More recently, football has been nationally ranked at the end of the season twice in the past 10 years. Hockey hasn't even had a winning season since the fricking Clinton years. Football is on an upward trend....where is hockey?

I don't have a problem with BGSU hockey...I really don't. But some of you need to wake the f**k up and realize this isn't he 70's or 80's any more. We aren't a hockey school....

I hate to be the one to show you the reality here, but MAC will never be ALLOWED to compete Nationally. Football is an upward trend? What have the records been exactly since Urban came and went? Enjoyable yes, but will never have the punch of basketball and hockey, and will never do anything aside from possibly contend for a MAC title, how many did Urban win? The last one was 20 years ago, that is some how construed as upward. The forthcoming redefining of D1 BCS etc will weed out the unwanted programs, incapable of competing on a National level in a short time. Then what? Exactly, BG will be playing down at a competitive level. Further is a forward thinking to take and have each team operate like business and be self funded so as not to tax the financial strings of the school as a whole, and the student body.

The CCHA has been the most competitive conference in all of college hockey top to bottom for the past 5 seasons. The numbers are there, go see. At what point has the MAC ever had 70% of its team in the top 20? Now the CCHA is going away and BGSU will be one of the lead programs in the W. Having again the same opportunity the program had when the ccha was first established. I am one of these folks excited about the hockey horizon, in part because I love hockey and work in the industry. In part as well because, its actually going to be exciting, and there is coming growth.

I understand how some get irritable at the thought, but BG is a small school, football is a drain, they should make the books public so people could see the need for self funding and why a manageable level( which is being thrust upon us soon anyway) is actually good. The die hard football fans, I love you, just see the realities here. We would be far better off, focusing on the strengths, and to add a women's d1 hockey program, and get aggressive with it, along with the schools of the new W. I am just pleased that in the direction of self funding the hockey program no longer needs to worry. That supporters can give directly to that program and not have the funds diverted. It wont be an easy road. As we see this again here in year two of this head coach. We are steps closer to years 3-5 when and where the realities of this program will be made. I like the looks of players this staff has been speaking with on the recruiting trail. The best recruits we have had here in a decade.

[kdog27]

"At what point has the MAC ever had 70% of its team in the top 20?"

Not really a fair comparison. Way more athletic programs in basketball, football etc than in hockey, and who cares if we are in the conference if we are never or rarely in that 70% category. That's like the Vanderbilt football team being proud to be in the SEC. It's really not that tough to be in the top 20 in hockey. However, I do like hockey and always enjoyed games as a student. I hope they can getting go again.

[factman]

The top 20 in hockey is similar to being the top 50 in football or top 150 in basketball and we are "normally" right in that area.

[Flipper]

Not only that ...but on a national scale, who cares about hockey? We don't need to be national champs to have an impact in football. Omar Jacobs was everywhere (ESPN, USA Today, Sports Illustrated) in 2004 and 2005 and we didn't win the MAC or end the season ranked in either year. Finish near the top 25 and go to a bowl and you 'll make a much bigger impression nationally than you will finishing near thetop in hockey...maybe even at the top in hockey. Football is king...it's what people watch.

There's also a huge logical flaw in your central premise...namely that we're not relevant or even competing now because we're in the dreaded CCHA, but if we move down...we can compete and we'll be better. This makes no sense...how on earth do you expect to get better playing lesser competition? It doesn't work that way...YOu get better by playing better teams. You are not likely to become a national power in a third tier league. You have a much greater chance of winning the league and getting exposed as a pretender the very first time you play tougher competition.

[footballguy51]

My wife is a HUGE hockey fan, I'm a HUGE football fan. She likes football and I like hockey. In no way would I like to see either go away. But, if I say that I graduated from BGSU, people have at least heard of the place because they saw them in a football game on TV, or because Omar Jacobs was all over ESPN for a long while. When I look at our football schedule, I know all of the teams that we are playing, except perhaps for this year when we played Morgan State (I had to google them to find out where they were from). Morgan State is an FCS school, hence I never heard of it.

When I look at the hockey schedule, or even the basketball schedule, I've never heard of half of the schools. Lake Superior? RIT? Ferris State? Canisius? Bemidji State? Malone? Madonna? Evansville?

What's my point? My point is that we're leaving the CCHA, that everybody touts as being a premier league (and it is) and going to the WCHA, filled with teams I've never heard of. The incoming freshmen have never heard of these schools. They've heard of Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, and Michigan State. Interest and attendance in the program will drop severely when we switch leagues unless we start winning immediately.

Also, as Flipper stated, there is a bigger national interest in football than there is in hockey. If the hockey team wins the national title and the football team beats Ohio State in one game, which would BGSU be known for? I guarantee more people would be talking about BGSU beating OSU in football than people talking about BGSU being the national champs of hockey. It's the nature of athletics in the USA.

That being said, am I advocating for any sport to be axed? Absolutely not. But, with the same token, I would be completely against diverting any funds from football because the possibility of garnering national attention in football is a bigger draw than it is in hockey.

Lastly, whoever suggested adding a women's hockey program should be thrown in the nut house. THAT would be a huge drain on the finances of our athletic department. Women's sports, in general, are not a huge draw. Couple that with it being hockey, and you would have 100 fans at the games. Women's basketball is followed as well as it is because they've been so dominant for so many years. If they were to all of a sudden not be competitive, people would essentially stop going and they would have attendance around 100 fans a game as well.

[Falcon1970]

Omar was not smart enough to play in the NFL, just as they all predicted, that was great press as well. Not saying he was not fun to watch, just not an NFL caliber player, like 99% of the MAC players. Those guys from other places. Then not only do not need to compete for the BCS, and thatnk you for seeing that, we do not need the low level, celebrations of mediocrity bowl games either. The viewership etc is horrible and they just end up costing the school hundreds of thousands of dollars which would be far better spent on other initiatives, in athletics alone. Then for BGSU to be listed in the top 25 for football, honestly doesn't mean anything. In part because of slanted and jaded the whole football system is. Yes i think its fairly safe to say the data supports the top 6 at most. After that and god willing in a playoff situation one play could change everything. I am saying to be ranked in the top 25 in football doesnt carry much weight in my book, to many chefs in that stew.

The ending of the CCHA takes 11 of the top teams in the Nation, from the top conference and redistributes them all, creating an new and exciting landscape. Not being a leader in the CCHA, but being added with some of those leaders to the WCAH, where BGSU would currently be ranked in the middle today, puts the program in position, to compete for WCAH titles and for a coveted spot in the top 16. The wcha is not a move a down, nor can anyone construe it as such. While had the team moved to Atlantic hockey and lost 6 scholarships in the process, would have been. The new WCHA will be very competitive, we will however not be the team you have grown to dispise. This team, that Bergeron has built. Will be a team that is very good and wins games, more than looses. Then when looking at the likely out of conference schedule, the Falcons and our other former CCHA members are positioned very well to compete with top teams in 3 other conferences. There is no doubt we will remain one of the top conferences in hockey. That college hockey will continue to do well as a whole, and grow. To football levels of fan dome, no, never. The Big 10 will be setting some new attendance records I am sure. But schools will seating for 2000 and schools with attendance records of 102,000 will all be playing against each other. heck have you seen Merrimack, and their return to the top 10, all with a student-body of 2500. BG with some wins and that buzz as we have seen in the past with football, will fill the newly redone rink in 2013 and beyond, having again, one of the rowdiest, student sections giving these team the best home ice advantage in college hockey.

I enjoy football, more basketball but my passion is hockey. I love my job, and see where this program is headed, and I am excited. Go ahead and support your team(s) Ill support mine. Slam mine, I have no qualms with slamming yours right back. That seems to be the clear direction the moderators of this board want the fans to take, by perpetually allowing members who say NOTHING ever that is positive, or supportive of various programs.

[Falcon1970]

My wife is a HUGE hockey fan, I'm a HUGE football fan. She likes football and I like hockey. In no way would I like to see either go away. But, if I say that I graduated from BGSU, people have at least heard of the place because they saw them in a football game on TV, or because Omar Jacobs was all over ESPN for a long while. When I look at our football schedule, I know all of the teams that we are playing, except perhaps for this year when we played Morgan State (I had to google them to find out where they were from). Morgan State is an FCS school, hence I never heard of it.

When I look at the hockey schedule, or even the basketball schedule, I've never heard of half of the schools. Lake Superior? RIT? Ferris State? Canisius? Bemidji State? Malone? Madonna? Evansville?

What's my point? My point is that we're leaving the CCHA, that everybody touts as being a premier league (and it is) and going to the WCHA, filled with teams I've never heard of. The incoming freshmen have never heard of these schools. They've heard of Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, and Michigan State. Interest and attendance in the program will drop severely when we switch leagues unless we start winning immediately.

Also, as Flipper stated, there is a bigger national interest in football than there is in hockey. If the hockey team wins the national title and the football team beats Ohio State in one game, which would BGSU be known for? I guarantee more people would be talking about BGSU beating OSU in football than people talking about BGSU being the national champs of hockey. It's the nature of athletics in the USA.

That being said, am I advocating for any sport to be axed? Absolutely not. But, with the same token, I would be completely against diverting any funds from football because the possibility of garnering national attention in football is a bigger draw than it is in hockey.

Lastly, whoever suggested adding a women's hockey program should be thrown in the nut house. THAT would be a huge drain on the finances of our athletic department. Women's sports, in general, are not a huge draw. Couple that with it being hockey, and you would have 100 fans at the games. Women's basketball is followed as well as it is because they've been so dominant for so many years. If they were to all of a sudden not be competitive, people would essentially stop going and they would have attendance around 100 fans a game as well.

First, if your not a hockey person, no one would expect you know these teams, let alone the 100's of jr's programs all the NCAA teams scout and recruit from. That is totally fine. The hockey circle is not as large as football. Yet in hockey, BG is more well known, in that circle than football is that circle.
Lastly to add a woman's team puts no drain on the school. Again, another self funded program, that neither drains the school, nor alters title 9. Not crazy, just a shot to get in and be a leader in women sports. A women's sport that is growing dramatically, where more post 18U opportunities need to be made available, and those institutions who are early adapters will reap huge benefits.
Merry Christmas all.

[Freddie]

to add a woman's team puts no drain on the school. Again, another self funded program

Scholarships, coaches salaries, equipment and travel expenses...a woman's team couldn't possible operate on a budget of less than 500k. They'd have to draw at least 2800 PAYING fans at $10 a head with 18 home games to cover cost.
Self funded???
No drain on the school???
What planet do YOU live on?

[Flipper]

Folks..we are not gonna see eye to eye on this...so I'm just going to say "Merry Christmas" and hope that your right about Bergeron being the guy to bring the team back

[Falcon Fanatic]

Folks..we are not gonna see eye to eye on this...so I'm just going to say "Merry Christmas" and hope that your right about Bergeron being the guy to bring the team back

GO BG!!!
FALCON HOCKEY FOREVER!!!!

[FalconTurf]

I don't like the fight between BG programs by the various fans as well. Love to take my kids to hockey games 3-4 times a year but I am a season ticket buyer for football and partial season package buyer for basketball. I see all the programs representing BGSU. Casual football fans are simply more likely than casual hockey fans therefore you will have those football people who don't know all 100 and few more Divsion IA schools.

Interested in the self-funded programs concept - great if it worked but a disaster in BG in my opinion. Using a simple model of $15 per ticket, 20 home games and 5,000 fans per game (100,000 for the season) I would assume we are looking at hockey with a $1.5 budget. No kid's club, no $5 ticket nights, no students in free because of a university fee. The reality all games will not be sold out especially exhibition and depite all the sold out seasons before none were with the current capacity of 5,000.

Didn't want to spend too much time but this year 18 scholarships (for in state students) should be $18,000 for a total of $324,000 - although out of state fees should be paid by self-supporting programs. The staff - coaches, equipment manager, secretary (possibly shared with others), academic support, and game day staff will account for at least $500,000 if we want to be honest about it and not isolate the program from the rest of the athletic department. Then the ice time rental (self-supporting not provided by the university), travel budget, and all the other costs.

Seems possible that hockey could do it quicker than football and certainly better than men's golf who would rely solely on donations since attendance is horrible for those matches but do you really want to be honest about the numbers to make programs self-reliant right down to paying for the hot water for showers after games? I don't think we want to go there with any of our programs and to suggest such would certainly be a disaster for all our programs.

[Flipper]

the "self-funding" concept isn't practical...it also assumes sports exist in a vacuum, they don't...they're a vital (some will argue how vital theyare or should be) part of a University. Over in the football forum, transfer said that the University now has 19% of the student body here from out of state. That's a huge revenue stream that is attributed at least in part to playing midweek football on national TV. In that context, you could view football as a loss leader. I think that view dooms the program from a fan support POV because those mid wek games are attendance killers...

Hockey and basketball are equally important...you have a weekend home game and it gives you something to do other than standing outside a bar in 20 below wind chill waiting to get in.